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DwtD: Find Desirea in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #1
Visit Vahhhkohs. You'll eventually run into her.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Main Controls in VoDT in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #1
Do you have the key dropped by the library golem? You use that puppy to exit the Lower School through the Experiment Halls, if I remember right. Or maybe I'm not following your question.

[ Wednesday, March 31, 2004 22:47: Message edited by: Boots ]

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
scenario criticism in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #9
What is it around here with fetishizing nominal relations as if they were capable of producing absolute values? The existing Spiderweb BoE tables employ a five-point system, yet that system has curiously failed to secure results which anybody can understand, let alone agree or disagree with. And since when has the goal of reviewing been to hack out a conventional wisdom? The value of the Lyceum's CSR is that it incites productive and instructive disagreement. I might dispute some scores, but after reading the reviews, I've never found myself led astray; provided enough people detail their responses, one can tell what is on offer in a given scenario -- usually as a result of the disagreements among those responses.

If you asked me to rate Falling Stars on a five point scale, I couldn't give it a five, since I found it annoying and self-indulgent in stretches, but neither would a four (80%) be just: that's the same score I would give A Small Rebellion, and, well, there's apples and oranges, sure, but then there's a crisp, entirely satisfying apple and a lifetime supply of crisp, entirely satisfying apples.

Nephil's Gambit is a chain of quests. Shadow of the Stranger is largely a chain of quests. Amazonian Saga is a chain of quests. The Nature of Evil is a chain of quests. Quintessence is a chain of quests. Emulations is a chain of quests. None differs in "genre" from the Vogel scenarios, at least if we're defining genre in such abstract terms. But they are all, in their ways, nastier, more surprising, funnier, sadder, and more compelling than the best of the pre-packaged scenarios.

Drizzt's point -- or maybe my point, which I've misunderstood him to be advancing -- is that the Exile model encourages designers to take the joins in a chain of quests for granted: to reduce every individual link to an end in itself with no substantive relationship, besides that provided by your player accepting a certain rote template, to any other link. The question isn't "genre." The question is the execution and development of the fit between gameplay and plot.

String together pearls, and you've got some jewlery. Skewer lamb chunks, and you've made a kebab. Hand me a chain of pearls and lamb, and I'm not sure what I've got. When people criticize JV's scenarios, it's for doing something like that (a mishmash of linearity and openendedness is the way it's often described). Why is there a town of ogres in A Small Rebellion? What does it have to do with the other "quests"? The story coughs nervously: Morrow Island, it seems, is one of those facelessly "wild" corners of the Empire -- you know, that, and, well, there's a demon involved. At which point, you have to assume either, as The Creator charitably does, that the designer is trying to make his town quota, or, as I less charitably do, that the designer can't imagine a more fitting way to shim a training dungeon into his scenario -- which there's no reason for him to be doing in the first place. Either way, the plot's chain has been broken. Likewise, why is there a town of goblins in Diplomacy with the Dead? Similar coughing. Okay, so the combat will at least be nasty and tough, or maybe tactically elegant, as promised, right? Ummmm, you see, you'll be standing in a row here, and there'll be a big bunch of them standing a civilized distance away in open space, and, well, you've heard of the Napoleonic Wars, right?

I could go on, but I'm rehashing points others have made better elsewhere, and in any event, why isn't this dispute going on in CSR?

[ Wednesday, March 31, 2004 09:51: Message edited by: Boots ]

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
scenario criticism in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #4
Here's one of the clearest explanations why it is that long-time Blades players find off-the-shelf Spiderweb design a tad grating: Never Doubt Drizzt.

Drizzt points to Alcritas' work for contrasting examples, so I'll stick with that. Although Alcritas hardly wrote the first and last word in admirable design and he commits his share of sins, nevertheless -- until his latest release, at least -- he has done something that buys you no end of indulgence from players: he never tells his stories the same way twice. Compare JV's four scenarios to Alcritas' big four (Of Good and Evil, An Apology, Redemption and Falling Stars). A Small Rebellion apart -- and not so far apart -- Spiderweb plots obey a fixed template, no matter how their content varies: the story progresses through the happy and tightly orchestrated coincidence of your career advancement and the rescue of the world; the sole motive driving its action derives from the need to string you along to the next dungeon (Z-K Run isn't, then, an exception to, but the distilled expression of the rule of Spiderweb design). Falling Stars is as close as Alcritas comes to writing that sort of anonymous Wander, Search, Slaughter and Search Again Epick(TM), and, well, to be polite, let's just say FS does more of everything, takes a breath, then does some more (which is not a thing of unqualified goodness, of course). His other three -- I prefer them to FS -- are each thoroughly reimagined: An Apology puts you in the hands of a forgetful and arbitrary frame narrative; Redemption is perhaps the most subtle use of space and scene to tell a story in Blades; Of Good and Evil begins with the qualms ASR only touches on in its final dialog box and proceeds to twist the knife slowly. . . .

Familiarity with the first three Vogel scenarios has no doubt bred impatience and impossible expectations among their early reviewers, so their scores -- especially ASR's -- will likely go up as new players encounter them for the first time. But I think you [Student of Trinity] are misreading the existing scores. Check out the list of Rated BoE Scenarios: anything with an 8 or more is widely considered among the best work going. Heck, Brett Bixler, one of the most inventive and interesting designers there is, doesn't have a scenario rated above 8.62. A Small Rebellion's rating is, in that respect, darn good; and VoDT and DwD sit squarely in the worth-playing category; as for Z-K Run . . . .

The pre-packaged BoA offerings are demonstration scenarios; their stories exist in large part to display product features and sketch out programming possibilities. Demonstration scenarios are necessary and valuable things, but they rarely enjoy enthusiastic reviews, whether they're by Jeff Vogel or not. See the responses to Spy's Quest, for instance -- a scenario that was crucial to the development of Blades design, yet has not been particularly well-received by its players.

[ Tuesday, March 30, 2004 11:39: Message edited by: Boots ]

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Where can I learn the following Spells in VotD? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #2
Unlock Doors is available in VoDT: Student Quarters. You need 9 levels of Rune Reading or thereabouts to learn it.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Graphics request in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #1
Small or large template? And which rows do you want for attack, etc. (i.e. armored or not? which weapon? and such).

EDIT: Ah, heck, I just emailed a version of each. I'll be around for another half hour or so should you wish different poses, or should something have gone wrong.

[ Monday, March 29, 2004 23:26: Message edited by: Boots ]

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Graphics request in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #1
Small or large template? And which rows do you want for attack, etc. (i.e. armored or not? which weapon? and such).

EDIT: Ah, heck, I just emailed a version of each. I'll be around for another half hour or so should you wish different poses, or should something have gone wrong.

[ Monday, March 29, 2004 23:26: Message edited by: Boots ]

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
DwtD: Seleucia Sewers in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #8
Only underground outdoors is Enormous Cavern, isn't it? If not, sorry for confusion.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
DwtD: Seleucia Sewers in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #6
Headbang outdoors in the underworld. The reward is well worth it.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Scenario Icons in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #5
To control for problems with size and format, I copied one of the provided 64x64 scenario icons from the Scen Icon Graphics file into a resource in the .cmg file. When referenced in the Set Label Icon editor dialog by its resource number in the Scen Icon Graphics file, the icon appears without problem in the list of scenarios accessed from the Main Menu's "Enter Scenario" option. When referenced by the resource number I gave it in the .cmg file, it does not appear in the list of scenarios; in its place, the default icon (1944) appears. When you say that "it worked out fine" for you, do you mean in this specific application? (There are other uses for scen icons; they've worked fine for me in those.)

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Scenario Icons in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #5
To control for problems with size and format, I copied one of the provided 64x64 scenario icons from the Scen Icon Graphics file into a resource in the .cmg file. When referenced in the Set Label Icon editor dialog by its resource number in the Scen Icon Graphics file, the icon appears without problem in the list of scenarios accessed from the Main Menu's "Enter Scenario" option. When referenced by the resource number I gave it in the .cmg file, it does not appear in the list of scenarios; in its place, the default icon (1944) appears. When you say that "it worked out fine" for you, do you mean in this specific application? (There are other uses for scen icons; they've worked fine for me in those.)

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Scenario Icons in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #3
It sounds like that is what TM did: inserted the icon into resource 553 of the .cmg file. I just tried it myself, using one of the prefab icons, and it didn't work -- though the Editor has been fairly spotty about recognizing other custom graphics (I've run into that phantom "out of memory" error a good deal), so who knows.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Scenario Icons in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #3
It sounds like that is what TM did: inserted the icon into resource 553 of the .cmg file. I just tried it myself, using one of the prefab icons, and it didn't work -- though the Editor has been fairly spotty about recognizing other custom graphics (I've run into that phantom "out of memory" error a good deal), so who knows.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Spiders' Amber in Nethergate
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #5
Don't enter the structure in which the ladies live. Go around its side and search along the swampy southern wall of the town map itself. My memory is that the amber is against the western wall of a passage running along that southern edge; you enter the passage from the east, so its opening is somewhat hidden if you're approaching from the west. Confusing enough? You'll know you're getting close when a dialog box informs you of the enormous numbers of bugs (I think).

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
DwtD: Seleucia Sewers in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #3
Pearnum has no relation to the third entrance to the sewers. Head back to the first town (Fort whatchamacallit) and denounce the Empire whenever you get the chance. You'll be sent to speak with somebody who knows the location of the third entrance.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
skills in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #5
I'm confused. The game manual (page 10) seems to suggest that, in the case of Parry, at least, the prerequisite for gaining a given new skill is the number of times that you have trained in the relevant base skills (for Parry: 6 times in Defense and Dexterity), not the level to which you have trained them.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
DwtD: Seleucia Sewers in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #1
Aren't there two gate levers in a room that's located a little east of center in the sewers? As for the NW corner, you have to use a different entrance from the city above; you will learn of its location if you wander around the first few towns saying seditious things whenever given the opportunity.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Hey, Monster- Stay Put! in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #1
Do you mean absolutely stay put? To glue him or her to a spot, set memory cell 0 to either 2 (never move ever) or 1 (move if a target appears) [page 39 of Editor manual].

[ Saturday, March 27, 2004 16:45: Message edited by: Boots ]

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Hey, Monster- Stay Put! in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #1
Do you mean absolutely stay put? To glue him or her to a spot, set memory cell 0 to either 2 (never move ever) or 1 (move if a target appears) [page 39 of Editor manual].

[ Saturday, March 27, 2004 16:45: Message edited by: Boots ]

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Number Two in General
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #9
Leo McKern?

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Winter comes: game over -- he's in the driveway removing snow with a flame-thrower.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Stuck in A Small Rebellion in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #1
There are secret doors in the far eastern wall of the passage in which the soldiers appear.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Time for a Script DB? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #4
I can't figure out why there aren't 43 replies of drooling enthusiasm in this thread. This would be the greatest thing since, well, all the other great things you've done for Blades, Brett.

Comments: I'm basically a strategically-shaved gibbon when it comes to scripting, so I wouldn't mind a comments requirement; that said, *i's comments for his mage-killer script are more than sufficient.

Categories: I recall some pretty developed notions about new skills (tool-building was one; I'd add forgery) floating around these parts; also, scripts called by items. Such things could fall under "cool stuff," perhaps. I suppose the question would be, should the categories be defined by game-play effect or by design function (i.e. Town, Terrain, Creature, as Drakefyre suggests)? A few game-play categories might be useful only because complex effects could involve multiple design functions.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Time for a Script DB? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #4
I can't figure out why there aren't 43 replies of drooling enthusiasm in this thread. This would be the greatest thing since, well, all the other great things you've done for Blades, Brett.

Comments: I'm basically a strategically-shaved gibbon when it comes to scripting, so I wouldn't mind a comments requirement; that said, *i's comments for his mage-killer script are more than sufficient.

Categories: I recall some pretty developed notions about new skills (tool-building was one; I'd add forgery) floating around these parts; also, scripts called by items. Such things could fall under "cool stuff," perhaps. I suppose the question would be, should the categories be defined by game-play effect or by design function (i.e. Town, Terrain, Creature, as Drakefyre suggests)? A few game-play categories might be useful only because complex effects could involve multiple design functions.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
GIFTs- How to Pass? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #1
Talk to the Vahnataeeiii who hang out down a tunnel to the east of the library; they'll tell you how to do a deal with the GIFTs.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Bye-Bye Damage Cap in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #6
One thousand damage to a single target beats 150 damage each to 10 or more targets in a 360 degree field of fire?

Thus far (through Dip with Dead) I have few complaints about the way magic is balanced in BoA's actual game play; not so many redundant spells might have been nice, yes, but the only thing wrong with my casters is my failure to raise their dexterities high enough.

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Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00

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