Bye-Bye Damage Cap

AuthorTopic: Bye-Bye Damage Cap
Shock Trooper
Member # 1723
Profile #0
So, magic has been greatly toned down in BoA. I created a god character to test the limits of the system, and with 30 intelligence, 30 in mage and preist skills, and 30 in magery, i couldn't get damage over 150. In addition, the costs are all much higher, though a nice new skill (Magic Efficiency) can tone that down a little. What I did notice, though, is that weapons can inflict a massive amount of damage. I inflicted a blow of 1017 damage to an enemy. Yes, that's right, 1017, not a typo. That was, granted, with a blessed greatsword and 30 strength, dexterity, melee, blademaster, gymnastics, anatomy, assassination, and the skill that made it all possible, Fatal Blow. But still, that demonstrates that some sort of wall has been placed on damage from spells, whereas with weapons, it's all up in the air. For discussion, how will this change playing the game and designing scenarios for it as opposed to if Jeff had implemented the magic-slanted system of A3?

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Posts: 277 | Registered: Tuesday, August 13 2002 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #1
It's really screwing with my playing style. I had become gradually more and more magic-based through the Avernum Trilogy, and now I'm finding my mage characters to be mostly useless. Now that bless and haste cost so much to cast, I'm forced to beef up my fighter's innate skills. But since Divine Warrior bit the dust after A2, Priest Spells are seeming less appetizing, with Healing the only one left that seems really worthwhile to cast often. And since agressive spells don't damage nearly as much as they did in the previous Avernums and cost a LOT more, Mage Spells also seem less useful.

I guess I really could go singleton rather than duo in BoA, something I could never even consider in the trilogy. With one warrior who was able to cast a few spells, I'd be fine.

I feel dissatisfied with the way that combat works right now in BoA, but maybe I'll get used to it. I was annoyed with combat in the beginning of A3, too, but I ended up loving it by the end of the game.

I had a plan for scripting a monster that liked to stand back and cast Slow on the party over and over again while they were fighting some other monsters. With the new spell system, this seems like it would give the party an even greater challenge than I had originally intended.

P.S. 100th post! Woo hoo! Citizen of Exile!

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #2
It doesn't even need to be a monster - it could be noxious fumes coming out of vents, etc.

War Blessing is a wonderful spell at any level for a singleton. It's like Divine Warrior but cheaper. And without invulnerability.

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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 461
Profile #3
So direct damage spells are basically worthless now? Maybe someone should email Jeff about this.

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Posts: 346 | Registered: Sunday, December 30 2001 08:00
Warrior
Member # 1016
Profile #4
What level are your spells at? The editor will let you raise each of them up to 5, but I was able to exceed that by using the scenerio editor to make a shop that sold up to level 500 of light. Of course I only bothered to buy it up to level 15 as the price became prohibitely expensive. Alternately you could probably just write script that will raise the level of each spell by 10. Unless of corse Jeff put a cap of 5 for the maximum spell level since the beta, I haven't tried this with the current version yet.
Posts: 141 | Registered: Saturday, April 20 2002 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #5
Well, I was talking about VoDT, where pretty much everything is level 1. That is a good point, though; we as scenario designers could and probably should make higher levels of spells available in low-level scenarios in order to make spellcasting worthwhile.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #6
One thousand damage to a single target beats 150 damage each to 10 or more targets in a 360 degree field of fire?

Thus far (through Dip with Dead) I have few complaints about the way magic is balanced in BoA's actual game play; not so many redundant spells might have been nice, yes, but the only thing wrong with my casters is my failure to raise their dexterities high enough.

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Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #7
If what we know from BoE is true (ie. Designers- myself included- will make crazy-powerful weapons), then it means that damage from melee will begin shooting up the roof in higher-level scenarios.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 246
Profile #8
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I was talking about VoDT, where pretty much everything is level 1. That is a good point, though; we as scenario designers could and probably should make higher levels of spells available in low-level scenarios in order to make spellcasting worthwhile.
Another thing the designer could do is make the monsters more vulnerable to spells (reduce immunities, etc) and less vulnerable to melee (increase armor, etc). That might do the trick also.

If enough people complain about it, Jeff might go in and fix it.
Posts: 117 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1217
Profile Homepage #9
w00t! I like this! There is no damage cap! w00t!

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Posts: 304 | Registered: Monday, May 27 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 126
Profile Homepage #10
Are you sure you tested this properly? You said you made a God character. You mentioned far more skills that supported physical attacks than skills that supported magic. Perhaps if the skillpoints were spread out in a fashion that better represented how things would actually go ingame, the results of the test could prove different.

Beyond that, if magic truly has been injured in such a fashion, we can only hope that scenario designers take this magic-physical disparity into account, and modify their scenarios accordingly.

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Posts: 161 | Registered: Monday, October 8 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 1373
Profile #11
I've had no disappointment with the spells. I've enjoyed fireblast quite a bit, and it's looked like smite has become more powerful.

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Posts: 54 | Registered: Tuesday, June 25 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3946
Profile Homepage #12
i think it's fair, and this is why, you get one attack with a physical weapon, on one opponent, but with spells, you get 8... 150 x 8 = 1200 1 x 1000 = 1000 see?

and most enemies don't have over that amount of hp, and they are ranged, and (this could take forever, so thisll be my last one :P ) it helps balance out the system. while there are more special abilities for fighters, you just hack, and slash, lunge, and occasionaly parry... but mages get a whole thing of spells, so its hard fighting as a singleton, but potions made up for priests, and though they stink, scrolls for mages spells.

[ Thursday, March 25, 2004 14:21: Message edited by: Shiryu ]
Posts: 167 | Registered: Saturday, January 31 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
Profile #13
At higher levels in BoE, I've been basically just using magic to beef up my 2.5 main fighters and then using my magi as clean-up/backup singers.

I just started on Farmhands!!! today, and have to adjust from months of playing in this fashion, and coping with the loss of security that you get from strong parties. I think it's a positive thing, changing your playing style every now and then.

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Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 2711
Profile #14
dont judge boa from vodt...vodt=t3h b00lshate...why do you think jeff gives it for free?

about magic: the char editor limit on spells is 5, though in DWtD you can buy the first 3 spells of both alignments to level 6...im guessing from that and what you all say that you can make an npc that sells the spells up to any damn level you want him to...just remember lvl 15ish bolt of fire would cost 30k...and would be utterly useless...for something like arcane blow lvl 5 is already something like 20k (heh) put it over 5 if you need to but...i really don't see the point (other that 1:wasting money of cheaters that put it at 5 and 2:annoying people
Posts: 126 | Registered: Wednesday, February 26 2003 08:00
Warrior
Member # 1016
Profile #15
If you want to raise the level of spell past 5 I would suggest using the change_spell_level call as it would be cheaper and probably faster than buying them from a merchant. I wonder how much damage a level 25 fireblast or arcane blow would do?
Posts: 141 | Registered: Saturday, April 20 2002 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #16
quote:
I wonder how much damage a level 25 fireblast or arcane blow would do?
I don't know, but, as per TM's post above, I'm sure we'll find out. :P

Really, though, once I'd gotten a few spells up to level 3, everything was fine. More than fine. I was wreaking some serious havoc. Havoc was wrought by me. w00t, as they say.

Apparently it was much more a design problem with VoDT that low-level spells were hopelessly weak than a problem with the BoA engine, at least for me.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00