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Displayed name	Slarty
Member number	261
Title	Raven v. Writing Desk
Postcount	3560
Homepage	http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/slartyvsdesk/
Registered	Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00

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Creations Analysis, Part II in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Thursday, December 7 2006 07:52 Profile Homepage #10 You can get +6 to Fire Shaping and +4 to Battle and Magic Shaping from items. Lifecrafters start with 2 in Fire Shaping, so it's worthwhile to buy 2 levels at any rate. EDIT: And unless Randomizer's list is incomplete, there are no Fire, Battle, or Magic Shaping canisters. [ Thursday, December 07, 2006 07:54: Message edited by: Slartel Runeaxe ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Shock Trooper in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Thursday, December 7 2006 07:45 Profile Homepage #17 quote: Originally written by Synergy67: quote: Originally written by --Slarty: It takes significant investment in melee skills, and especially in Quick Action, if you want to have a reliable melee attack. I've never found this actually to be the case. I can practically count on one hand the number of times any PC I've ever created seems to have missed hitting something with a melee weapon for starters. After the first few cheap boosts to Melee, I invest in Strength which is more useful all around. I get very good results with Quick Action which readily enough winds up around 8-10 for me with either build. I get double strikes frequently with a modest investment in QA. Yes, you will rarely miss. That's irrelevant; you will rarely miss with ANY PC attack that you invest in. (Anyway, spells miss less often; they have higher base to-hit rates and all your investment goes into skills that boost the to-hit rate, whereas Quick Action does not boost to-hit.) By "reliable" I am not talking about hitting every turn, I am talking about reliably doing your best damage. Quick Action of 8-10 means you will get a double strike approximately 40-50% of the time. That's not reliable at all! You absolutely need those double strikes if you want your damage (in any given turn) to meet the damage you can get out of battle magic. In a prolonged fight i.e. vs Matala, it matters how many you get overall but not on any given turn, so 50% vs 70% is not a huge difference. If you are fighting a bunch of Wingbolts, being able to take out one per turn might mean the difference between life and death. A 50/50 chance to double strike is just not gonna cut it. quote: Again, I did not find the Servile to be overall more powerful in more situations for its cheaper fighting skills compared to the Infiltrator for its cheaper, earlier magic strength. How does an Infiltrator have "earlier" magic strength, but a Servile doesn't have the same thing for combat skills? That was a completely gratuitous adjective. Looking at effective skill differences, compared to a Servile, an Infiltrator will have about: -4 Melee skill (str + melee weapons) -4 Quick Action -5 Parry -1/4 HP +2 Battle Magic +2 Mental Magic +2 Blessing Magic +2 Spellcraft +1/6 Essence However, these differences are eroded for skills you only need to build up to a certain low point. If you aren't using Battle Magic to attack, then ALL the magic skills fall into that category, and Spellcraft isn't worth buying with skill points. quote: Melee damage is so big eventually, a few extra points in Melee or Strength don't add up to one less swordstroke to make the kill typically. The earlier build up in magic skills and power really shows throughout the game though. You need to explain this, because it sounds like bunk. You're right about melee damage, but the same thing certainly applies to battle magic damage, and a few extra points in blessing or mental magic are mostly useless, beyond what you need in order to get the most useful spells. quote: quote: For the same investment in magic skills, an Infiltrator only gets 2 more per magic skill plus 2 more in Spellcraft compared to a Servile. It's the cheap magic that leaves one caught up/ahead in magic and resultingly you have more XP to invest in a bit more Strength or Meleee or QA as necessary. This makes NO SENSE. You are saying that the Infiltrator's magic bonus lets it buy melee skills. But doesn't the Servile's melee bonus let it buy magic skills the same way? In terms of raw skill point cost, the bonus a Servile gets to combat is slightly bigger than the bonus an Infiltrator gets to magic. If you want both classes to get combat and magic skills, the Infiltrator is just not going to come out ahead. That's the balance of the numbers. quote: With Magic, ultimately, conveniently, one might want to wind up with three times nine levels in each (not to mention that Spellcraft is one of the most powerful things to be able to boost and it's very expensive to most builds. That's like 24 bumps up (not even including Spellcraft,) unless you like to rely on losing AP swapping gear around in the middle of fights every time you want to cast a certain class of spells. I do not need to make 24 bumps up in Melee/Strength/QA/Parry to make a very powerful melee fighter...much less, really, and there is lots of gear to permanently boost many of these stats, especially Strength. Okay, let's try this out. Pumping the three magic stats up to 9 each will cost 16 + 20 + 16 = 52 for an Infiltrator 23 + 28 + 23 = 74 for a Servile That's a difference of 22 skill points. Now let's look at melee stats. We'll consider an extremely minimal investment in melee stats -- enough to get each class to equal strength, a few cheap points in melee weapons -- getting it to 7, which is 4 buys for either class -- and enough to get Quick Action to 10. I still think that's a lamentably low QA, but you said it was enough, so we'll use that number. Str + Melee + QA 00 + 06 + 16 = 22 for a Servile 08 + 10 + 34 = 52 for an Infiltrator That's a difference of 30. The magic numbers ignored Spellcraft, in which the Infiltrator gets an effective +2, and the combat numbers ignored Parry, in which the Servile gets an effective +5. There are also the HP and Essence differences. I don't think either of those is game-breaking, but a Servile has 10 HP for every 8 of the Infiltrator, while the Infiltrator has 7 Essence for every 6 of the Servile. The essence really won't make any difference at all unless you are making a bunch of creations -- and if you are doing that, neither battle magic nor melee weapons are going to make a huge difference to you. The HP bonus is similarly useful, but not critical, given the availability of Augmentation, Essence Armor, etc. Also, the Servile gets an extra point in Mechanics (likely worth 5 or 6 skill points). quote: I don't care how the numbers add up technically. facepalm Then why the heck are you debating how the numbers add up??? If you want to say "I enjoyed playing as an Infiltrator more. It felt more powerful to me," nobody's going to argue with you. But that's not what you've been saying. [ Thursday, December 07, 2006 07:56: Message edited by: Slartel Runeaxe ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Creations Analysis, Part II in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Thursday, December 7 2006 06:51 Profile Homepage #8 Yeah, that is true. I don't think it's totally worthless. If you're a lifecrafter who has already pumped Int up hugely, it might be worth it to spend 6 skill points to get your Drayks and Kyshakks an extra 2 levels each. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Strategy Central -- Links to Useful Information in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Thursday, December 7 2006 06:48 Profile Homepage #5 Edited. I'd like to second Khoth's comment. This is a useful way to find stuff. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Creations Analysis, Part II in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Thursday, December 7 2006 06:40 Profile Homepage #6 I just updated the tables, because I realized I accidentally made a major goof in the first version -- I did out Artila and Roamers as acid damage, even though they do magic damage. The result is that Magic Shaping no longer looks like a viable path whatsoever. You don't have any answer to Wingbolts, which means you are probably forced to make Drayks, and at that point, you might as well have done Fire Shaping. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
tinker gloves question in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Thursday, December 7 2006 05:46 Profile Homepage #2 I think the number of tools needed is based on the proportional difference between object strength and mechanics skill. Trying to open a weak door with mechanics 1 vs mechanics 2 will often have a difference of multiple living tools. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Slartanalysis: Leadership in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Wednesday, December 6 2006 21:35 Profile Homepage #18 Helping Moseh requires 10 Leadership, not 8. I suggested 8 natural leadership with the +2 from items. You could skip that, but there are plenty of 10 leadership requirements after Moseh. If you care so little for the XP bonuses I'd say just skip leadership entirely, don't even bother getting to a natural 6. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Shock Trooper in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Wednesday, December 6 2006 21:00 Profile Homepage #14 quote: Originally written by Synergy67: It is easier to make effective melee and missle skills than magic, and magic is king in GF4. I agree the Infiltrator is overlooked, and not a bad class. But I take issue with the above statement. It takes significant investment in melee skills, and especially in Quick Action, if you want to have a reliable melee attack. Battle Magic is the same way. However, the importance with other spells mainly lies in getting high enough skill to cast the spells. Blessing spells increase in duration with skill but not in power, for the most part. I'll say it agian. For the same investment in magic skills, an Infiltrator only gets 2 more per magic skill plus 2 more in Spellcraft compared to a Servile. The Servile gets larger bonuses to melee stats. The Servile gets 1/3 more HP, while the Infiltrator gets only 1/6 more Essence. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Melee Warrior in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Wednesday, December 6 2006 20:54 Profile Homepage #24 quote: Originally written by Dikiyoba: does anything still do a non-splash acid attack or has that been removed from the game? Good question. It has, in fact, been removed from the game. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Avernum 5 Ideas in Avernum 4
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Wednesday, December 6 2006 05:59 Profile Homepage #13 quote: Originally written by Delaying Tactictian: So quarantines are good when used to define the boundaries of a chapter (A2, G4) but bad when used to define the boundaries of a less explicit chapter (A4)? Okay. I am talking about quarantines specifically, not just any kind of barrier or boundary. E/A 2 thus did not have any quarantines. I'm willing to give a pass to E/A 1 ("exiling", the Abyss) as well. But E/A 3 had a quarantined continent and a quarantined province, A4 had quarantined regions, G1 had a Barred island, G3 had a quarantined island chain. G4 has a quarantined province, though that isn't so bad because you are expected to violate the quarantine. VoDT revolved around a large Forbidden area. ASR had a quarantined area (though not at the beginning). I realize that it's easier to make these kinds of games with artifical restrictions on where the player can go, but enough with the quarantines already. I don't want to have to make any comparisons to Lufia II. The problem with A4 in this regard is just how movement was restricted. In A1 and A2, you had the same area to explore but you had (for the most part) unrestricted freedom to explore as you wished. There were any number of ways to get from Northeastern Exile to the Great Cave. But in A4, every possible route but one has been totally shut down, so it feels much less open and free. That's fine with the more linear plot, but for people who were used to the old Avernum I think it felt stifling. Although G4 is handled similarly, the barriers feel much less arbitrary. First of all, it really does take a lot of effort to get through an entire region in G4; it doesn't feel like you are flying through the map and then stopping because of some random mayor. Also, the war and the tasks you are tasked with make the stopping points fit with the plot well, as opposed to A4, where justification seems more tenuous. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Melee Warrior in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Wednesday, December 6 2006 05:31 Profile Homepage #15 In G1, melee damage does 1-8. Period. I just rechecked the scripts. In G4, The Oozing Blade does physical damage. Period. You can look in the scripts. Its ability is just a copy of the Broadsword ability with acid splash. You are right about the acid damage in G3, but that has been changed. Rotghroth damage also changed from acid+splash to physical+splash (and even the comments in the script file changed to reflecet this). (Rotghroths do have 50% resistance to physical damage, which is unusually high, AND 3 points in Parry, but those reductions will affect all weapons.) Next! [ Wednesday, December 06, 2006 06:06: Message edited by: --Slarty ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Avernum 5 Ideas in Avernum 4
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Tuesday, December 5 2006 20:43 Profile Homepage #9 quote: Originally written by Ephesos: the same section of Avernum used in 1, 2, and 4 Section of Avernum? That's pretty much all of Avernum proper. This is well-established. quote: I'd also like to see an explanation for how Fort Ganrick, Grindstone, Fort Monastery, and their ilk keep messing up the continuity of the game. :P They don't. Fort Monastery is new, and Fort Ganrick was described even in E2 as a temporary construction built solely to hold off the goblins and nephils north of Draco. Grindstone is odd only because such villages usually get a special node with a dialog box rather than an actual town. I would, however, still like to know what the heck happened to Fort Saffron during the Empire War. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Avernum 5 Ideas in Avernum 4
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Tuesday, December 5 2006 20:08 Profile Homepage #3 Things I do not want to see: - Quarantines - Rentar-Ihrno - A new humanoid race or culture with a religious ritual that involves touching the surface of three pools of water - Clawbugs - Pylons -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Empire Always Loses in General
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Tuesday, December 5 2006 06:56 Profile Homepage #7 "...My name is Terror's Martyr, King of Kings..." -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Melee Warrior in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Tuesday, December 5 2006 04:28 Profile Homepage #10 First off, magic is overpowered. Magic is frequently overpowered in CRPGs and I think there have been a few overpowered bits in most of Jeff's games. I also think I know why that is. Geneforge 1 was an exception to this rule. There were 12 spells, compared to 30-60 in other Spiderweb games. Creations were way more powerful. G2 toned down creations a little and added more spells which were wayyyy more powerful, and did not balance magic to compensate. Nobody noticed because the brokenness of Parry was far more obvious. In G1, weapons did 1-8 while spells did 1-5, 1-6, 1-7... weapons had Quick Action AND Anatomy. And there were fewer enemy resistances all around, certainly including armor. This was very balanced, because melee opened you up to opponent's melee attacks under that AP system, plus it was less tactically flexible. Now weapons do 1-4 or 1-5 while spells and creation breath range from 1-3 to 1-10. (Yes, SoT, nothing beats 1-5.) The acid and ice blades and so on are definitely good, but I want to correct an error people keep replicating. They do NOT do special damage. They do physical damage. They cause status effects, but they only do physical damage directly. Also, Quick Action has a problem. It's inconsistent. Even at very high levels there's a chance you'll not get the second strike. That's fine as far as damage output over time goes if you're attacking, say, Matala. But if you're just trying to knock down some wingbolts, it makes your task much harder since you have to allow for a range of damage. (I actually like that, but only if it's applied to everything; the problem is that spells do extremely consistent damage, while QA does not.) At moderate levels of QA, it's a coin-flip. Assuming it's the same as A4, which it looks like, 10 QA is a 50% chance of a second strike and 20 QA is a 75% chance. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Why Two Versions? in General
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Tuesday, December 5 2006 04:07 Profile Homepage #4 This is not that unusual. When the PPC chip first came out, there was a period of time when nearly everything came in 68k and PPC versions, and sometimes a "fat binary." -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
OoC Thread for "An RP in the World of Avernum... Reloaded" in General
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Monday, December 4 2006 09:06 Profile Homepage #434 Just to clarify, I don't think I have time to participate. If anyone is going to take over the Goblin Goblins, contact me first so I can pass on one rather critical, as-yet-unrevealed fact. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
How do I make a Cryora? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Saturday, December 2 2006 18:15 Profile Homepage #3 I believe you need 2 points in Fire Shaping. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
HELP! in Geneforge Series
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Saturday, December 2 2006 17:46 Profile Homepage #11 Apple Vlish come equipped with Bluefang, the latest in telepathic networking, and a motion sensor with an optional levitation attachment. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
HELP! in Geneforge Series
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Saturday, December 2 2006 17:29 Profile Homepage #9 Cupertino, 2 December -- Apple unveiled the newest in their line of color-coordinated computers, the Vlish, today. "Steve Jobs saw the success of the Nintendo Wii, and was furious that we had been scooped on a new marketing gimmick unrelated to technology, having a weird product name. So he created the Vlish," an anonymous employee said. The Vlish comes in three colors -- tentacle burgundy, terror olive drab, and submission puce. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Wingbolt or Kyshakk in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Saturday, December 2 2006 12:50 Profile Homepage #8 Their melee attacks should be almost exactly the same, except for the poison inflicted by the wingbolt. That is another bonus, it's true. The damage gap also sounds huger than expected. Do you have more training in Magic Shaping than Fire Shaping? EDIT: Vlish, I'm confused. Wingbolts actually have slightly more physical resistance ("armor") than kyshakks, 40% vs 30%. But neither creation has any resistance whatsoever to ice, fire, acid, or poison. None. Have you actually tested this or is it just an impression? [ Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:53: Message edited by: --Slarty ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Wingbolt or Kyshakk in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Saturday, December 2 2006 12:31 Profile Homepage #5 They are extremely similar. Wingbolts start a few levels higher and have slightly more energy, though not by much. They are down about 300 HP, though as mentioned they have better resistance to energy attacks (80% vs 50% for the kyshakk). Their breath attack will always be a little bit stronger, but lacks the lightning aura effect. I'd vote wingbolt for the simple fact that in a duel, the wingbolt would beat the kyshakk every time. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Episode 3: A New Game in General
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Friday, December 1 2006 19:30 Profile Homepage #696 ...how did I end up in an alliance? Meh. I don't support foreign entanglements. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Anomalies in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Friday, December 1 2006 18:13 Profile Homepage #1 Well, it makes sense that they can't wait around forever, though it does sound unplanned. The other one though, there are warnings about exitzone all over the place. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
G4 Website / insane reputation analysis in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Friday, December 1 2006 15:12 Profile Homepage #2 The experience reward is exactly the same, which is why it is in italics. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00

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