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Sect Reputation and Rewards (Some Spoilers) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #6
quote:
Originally written by F'nor:

Alwan hasn't given me the quest to repair Moseh. I've been back to see him and it still hasn't happened. Do I have to betray the Safehouse to him in order to get the quest?
Either that, or have a decent reputation with the Shapers and a few points in Leadership.

However, as far as I can tell betraying the Safehouse has no actual gameplay effects aside from the reputation change and reward.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Sect Reputation and Rewards (Some Spoilers) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #5
Some of the code for fleeing serviles or guards gives experience for each, but is set to only give the reputation change once. I couldn't tell how the Cairn Gates one was set up because it was a few weird-looking nodes in the zone dialogue code itself.

quote:
Originally written by Servile Synergy:

I'm trying to wrap my head around this, because you say both Rebels and Shapers reference this same sum. It seems like I'm able to get the majority of rewards in this game.
Did you notice above where I said there are very few times the number is actually referenced? Look at the chart. Grim and Manohla give exactly the same rewards. Also, Darnor's aren't particularly useful rewards.

For some of the quests that depend on you killing someone, you get credit when they die. However, for some of them, you get credit only when you choose the conversation option to tell them you are going to kill them in an overdramatic way.

I may try to update this to include which quests can be performed in only one way or in both ways, and also what all the rewards are and the interaction with passes and other flags.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Performance Evaluation in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #21
Fine. Would you rather have two people with interesting conversation nodes and three people with boring ones, or two people with interesting ones and twenty people with boring ones? I know *I* love clicking through boring conversations. :P

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Slartanalysis: Classes in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #10
Suppose you tried to do the same thing with a Lifecrafter.

You'd have weaker melee skills. You'd have about 1/3 less Health and more than 1/3 more Essence. So as far as being less survivable goes, the difference isn't that huge -- maybe 12% of your Parry rate probably made up for by having creation meatshields, and 1/3 less Health. In practice you'd wear more suitable items to buff your creations, so your melee skills wouldn't be amazing at all. And a Servile can certainly do more damage than any single creation. But far less than even a group of cheap tier 3 creations, if we're talking about Drayks.

Randomizer, when you say you maxxed out at 22 Int, are you talking about an essence cap, or just how much you needed?

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Performance Evaluation in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #19
Would you rather have a town full of people with interesting conversation nodes, or a crapload of guards and serfs with a single generic message and maybe some doomguards thrown in?

That's what I thought.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Slartanalysis: Classes in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #6
Something I did not take into account is the difference in item bonuses. Later in the game, there are some pretty ridiculous melee bonuses available (+2 Str, +2 Melee Weapons and +4 QA, to start with one item) whereas the spellcasting bonuses are smaller, just a few that net +1 to +4 per item between Battle Magic and Spellcraft.

All told a Servile can accrue, from items alone:
+14 Strength
+10 Melee
+1 Levels Damage
+6 QA
+1 Parry
+12 Vampiric Touch

while still making sure to get +2 AP. Throw in starting stats and a meager investment of skill points and you are hard pressed to avoid ending up with a melee machine. Of course, you also have a nice selection of ancillary effects -- poison, acid, curse, and stun -- at your disposal.

So we are back to the G1 paradigm of "if you reach it, it dies" -- except that now you can always reach it, you have Parry, better HP, and much better access to much better buffs. Plus, since you didn't have to spend lots of skill points getting there, you can pump Mental Magic to high heaven and never worry about a thing.

That said, I'm still not sure that a well-planned regiment of creations won't do better.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Sect Reputation and Rewards (Some Spoilers) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #0
So, Shapers and Rebels both rely on one number to tell if they like you or not. It starts at 100 and changes when you complete most quests and a small number of conversations. Obviously, for many of these you an choose the + or - option but not both. Here's a complete list of the things that can change it:

-5 Shaila dies
-2 Deal with Master Thell for Joakim
-3 Guide Caravan through Cairn Gates
-3 Guide Caravan through Cairn Gates (double?)
-2 Allow Sandia to escape
-2 Free Reiner and tell him to escape
-1 Q: Barbaro
-1 First Research Notes given to Fackler
-1 Lie to Alwan about mission (or refuse to talk)
-2 Q: Mars
-1 Q: Mouawad
-2 Per escaping Servile refugee (?)
-2 Destroy Eliza and report it to Pirik
-2 Destroy Shaftoe and report it to Pirik
-1 Q: Ozyss
-3 Destroy Heart (or return it to Darnor)
-3 Scout Turabi Gate for Darnor
-3 Clear 31st Camp
-2 Help Zorin's Rebels escape
-3 Kill Eliza
-3 Kill Shaftoe
-3 Kill Moseh
-3 Give Monarch's papers to Greta
-2 Betray Archibald to Ellsworth
-2 Contact Vecsey for Ellsworth
-2 Kill Cantor
-2 Kill Tycho
-4 Destroy Shaper camp for Litalia
-3 Free prisoners for Manohla
-3 Kill infiltrators for Ossissess
-1 per trapped rebel who escapes (?)
-1 Pledge escape to trapped rebels
-1 Kill Horis
-1 Q: Greta

+5 Walk Shaila to Forsaken Docks
+2 Betray sinkhole rebels
+1 Report Sinkhole rebels' deaths to Crowley
+2 Betray Burkes to Crowley
+2 Agree with Master Thell
+5 Betray Caravan
+2 Kill Sandia (or convince her to return)
+2 Free Reiner and tell him to return
+1 Q: Barbaro
+1 Tell Alwan about mission
+4 Betray Illya Safehouse to Alwan
+5 Help Moseh and report it to Alwan
+2 Destroy Moseh and report it to Alwan
+2 Show Rebel Papers to Alwan
+2 Q: Mars
+2 Betray Drewry to Kane
+2 Betray Lilly to Kane
+1 Q: Mouawad
+3 Return Heart to Mouawad
+1 Q: Ozyss
+2 Kill Zorin's Rebels
+3 Destroy Mutated Thahd for Eliza
+3 Kill Krazo and Mystithus for Shaftoe
+3 Help Moseh
+2 Kill Nakel
+3 Give Monarch's papers to Miranda
+1 Contact spy for Miranda
+1 Report scout's death to Miranda
+2 Betray Vecsey to Miranda
+2 Let Tycho go
+2 Kill cultists for Krogstad
+2 Sabotage Rebel defenses for Yngrid
+1 Kill trapped rebels at fort
+2 Help Horis shape new Kyshakk
+1 Tell Alwan of meeting with Litalia
+2 Give Drakon specifications to Alwan
+2 Tell Alwan Citadel's location, but no Drakon info
+2 Help all five infiltrators for Koerner
+3 Kill Litalia for Koerner
+2 Tell Kiki about Litalia's papers
+2 Give Rebel Papers to Kiki
+2 Destroy rogue trall for Kantor
+2 Kill chief and shaman for Dameron
+1 Q: Greta
+2 Get scrolls for Dalia

Here's a complete list of the things that are open to you when the number is high or low enough. The second column indicates whether or not Leadership reduces the requirement. "Yes" means it does so on a 1:1 basis, "1/3" means only 1/3 the value of your Leadership is used. As you can see, there are not actually many points that rely on this number:

109+ Yes Alwan -- Moseh quest (Shaped Breastplate)
105+ Yes Duncan -- training
105+ No Mouawad -- 1st reward
112+ No Mouawad -- 2nd reward (Thirsting Knife)
120+ No Mouawad -- 3rd reward (Ring of Eye's Purity) (+3 Battle Magic)
120+ Yes Matala -- lets you go
115+ Yes Alwan -- Northforge Citadel quest
110+ 1/3 Grim -- 1st reward
124+ 1/3 Grim -- 2nd reward (Farsight Breastplate)
136+ 1/3 Grim -- 3rd reward (Agent's Shelter)
105+ No Shotwell -- join party

104- No Pirik -- Safehouse key
95- No Darnor -- 1st reward
88- No Darnor -- 2nd reward (Firecaster Gauntlets) (+1 Battle, Blessing Magic)
80- No Darnor -- 3rd reward (Girdle of Life) (+2 Endurance)
90- Yes Gibbons -- buy canisters
100- No Khur -- join party
90- No Manohla -- 1st reward
80- No Manohla -- 2nd reward (Farsight Breastplate)
68- No Manohla -- 3rd reward (Agent's Shelter)
100- No Ossissess -- Kill infiltrators quest
N.B.: There are also places in the game where what happens is based on a specific choice you made. This section does not cover those, and they may be important. Perhaps someone who's played through repeatedly can say something about those?

Manohla and Grim give the same rewards. There are a number of other places where the rewards are equal: Alwan and Pirik's reward for the caravan mission, for example, and killing or helping Yngrid. With that as a caveat, here is a list of some of the more interesting quest rewards in the scripts. Some of these might be acquireable by killing someone or looting something instead of talking to them; I'm not sure.

Joakim -- Steel Sword and Shield
Gretchen -- Tinker's Bauble
Fackler -- Gauntlets of Succor
Alwan / Pirik -- Shaped Gauntlets
Kane -- Guardian Stone
Mouawad -- Skein of Wisdom
Pirik -- Shaped Blade (Moseh)
Pirik -- Mindwarp Seal (Eliza) (+2 Mental Magic)
Pirik -- Runed Jade Necklace (Shaftoe) (+1 Spellcraft)
Trianus -- Shaped Belt
Greta -- Mental Focus Charm (+1 Spellcraft)
Stubbs -- Demon's Bile
Jared -- Singing Rapier (+2 QA, +1 Parry, but d4 damage)
Monarch -- Shaper Robe, Armor Band
Yngrid -- Infiltrator's Charm
Litalia -- Puresteel Necklace
Litalia -- Viper's Touch (Shaped Blade w/ Poison Drip)
Ossissess -- Stasis Shield, Puresteel Boots
Koerner -- Polychromous Shield, Blasted Greaves (+1 Str, +2 End)
Koerner -- Spectral Rapier (Litalia) (+2 Parry, +2 Mental Magic, but d4 damage)
Ghaldring -- Puresteel Charm (+1 Str, +1 Damage)
Learned Hartl -- Impervious Band
Szmani -- Projection Belt
Ssaroyen -- Puresteel Shield

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
What exactly is "game difficulty"? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #8
Hmm.

On second thought, I don't remember when I tested this, so maybe I never did for GF1-3. Doh.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Keeping items in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #4
I'm in the middle of chapter 2 and have about 7500 gold on hand. That's after spending 5000 on Spellcraft and another chunk of change on a selection of spells. Granted, I haven't bought any creations, but those wouldn't cost too much.

I'm sure stuff gets more expensive, but I find it hard to believe there's going to be the massive financial crunch people have been commenting on.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Southforge Item Stealing in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #7
You have to be close enough to see what he is doing, but far enough to not trigger the message you got. I recommend following just behind him as he walks south, and saving just before he enters the room. Then you can try different positions to see what works.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Radiance in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #5
The "regenerating" life drain item enhancement in G3 actually worked quite well for a melee-based PC. I guess that's gone the way of the Emerald Chestguard, huh?

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Performance Evaluation in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #8
Salmon, read what I said. I did not say spam drives members away. I said it drives members with interesting things to say away. That happens because people who already have interesting things to say are a lot less likely to want to read pages and pages of meaningless posts.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Performance Evaluation in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #5
Um. Putting aside the questionable definition of "helped the boards," spam certainly doesn't. It spreads further thin the already thin distribution of actual content, and it drives members with interesting things to say away.

It absolutely did not help.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
What exactly is "game difficulty"? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #3
Nope. In Geneforge (and A4) Str, Dex, Int, and End are all determined based on level, and base level is multiplied by some factor dependng on your difficulty.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
What exactly is "game difficulty"? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #1
Assuming it is the same as with every other spidweb game, difficulty affects only one thing directly: enemy experience level. This in turn affects their health, attack power, and dodge and hit rates.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Keeping items in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #0
I just searched the scripts. It appears the only items there are unlimited "collection quests" for are Research Notes, Swamp Herbs, and Melted Glass.

That's going to lighten my inventory!

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Codes in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #3
Because the essence calls don't actually mean anything -- other than your PC, nobody in the game checks essence when they cast things.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Do You Feel Lucky? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #4
You're right, both of those are random drops with a base chance of 1%. That means that however luck affects the chance, it affects it in a very significant way.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Do You Feel Lucky? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #1
Synergy, I think some of those drops are unique drops and not random ones. That is, individual enemies can be made to "carry" items which will appear when they are killed. Luck will never create item drops, but it WILL increase the chance of random ones, presumably by 1% per point of Luck at least up to 10. Having just 5 Luck makes a really noticeable increase in the number of dropped items.

EDIT: I tend to put a lot of points into Luck right away (except when min-maxing vlish in g3). The first few levels are so cheap, it's a no-brainer. After that, it is worthwhile once your other skills get equally expensive, but I buy it sooner to increase my item drops.

[ Thursday, November 23, 2006 18:53: Message edited by: Charged Slartile ]

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Melee, Missle, and Spell - The New Balance in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #1
I'm not convinced.

Melee is better -- partially because of what you mentioned and partially because PCs (but not creations) now have a 5-multiplier melee attack, the new broadswords, which I failed to mention in my attack types thread. That amounts to a flat 20% damage increase, plus a manueverability increase.

That's all good and well when you are attacking one enemy over and over, or a swarm of enemies that cluster around you. But if you're attacking enemies that use ranged attacks, they don't stay close enough to hit two different enemies on the same turn when you are hasted. So ranged attacks still have that big advantage, of always being able to use all attacks when hasted.

I do want to try, at some point, a Missile Servile who puts all his points into Dex, to get deadly missiles and a super-high dodge rate. The engine previously nerfed that by not allowing consistently high dodge rates and I'm not sure if it still will, but it's a nice idea.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Jonathan Pollard's 22nd year of incarceration in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #12
Actually, that brings up something I've always wondered. Infernal, you have very strong convictions. Most people here seem to disagree with them (with greater and lesser degrees of politeness, unfortunately).

Why do you bring up this stuff HERE? I mean I understand that you like to debate it, but do you really enjoy arguing about it with people who aren't receptive to your opinions?

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Jonathan Pollard's 22nd year of incarceration in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #7
It's not quite as one-sided as that. Wikipedia has an even-handed presentation of what may or may not have happened, and discusses the sentencing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Trainers in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #5
Free skill boosts are great, but keep in mind they work completely differently -- you always get them and they don't affect the cost of new points in a skill. Trainers are a more strategic issue basically requiring advance planning, since you can only use them if you haven't yet put points into the skill in question. When trainers are available early and train "expensive" skills, it's easy to hold off and make use of them. When available late, they are often more frustrating than helpful.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
SYNERGY LIST: GF4?How To Forge Stuff And What It Does in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #7
Is it possible that these discrepancies come from earlier betas?

The artifacts all have the usual listings in the item definitions file, and it would be quite a departure for any random element to exist with that at all. Shapemaster Boots for example list a flat 16% armor and the 10% HER for creations -- +3 levels of damage for creations just isn't there.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Trainers in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #0
Anyone make a list?

I was reminded by my discovery of the Spellcraft trainer, who is very near the start for such a relevant and expensive (in skill points) skill.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00

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