Creations Analysis, Part II
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, November 28 2006 18:23
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This time, I needed real tables: http://minmax.ermarian.net/g4/g4cre.html [ Thursday, December 07, 2006 06:34: Message edited by: Slartel Runeaxe ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Tuesday, November 28 2006 19:05
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For the endgame you might want to look at damage versus drakon since that was a consideration for me to choose fire shaping. Magic shaping is marginal versus them because they resist magic attacks and a war trall isn't any better. I wish I had tried rotgroth since that might work better. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, November 28 2006 19:21
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Nice work, Slartucker. And just to reiterate experiental perspective, cryoas are great about 3/5 or a bit more through the game. Some time in Chapter 4 I found they stopped hitting very reliably. Maybe this could be countered with more Dexterity? The Kyshakk, which you originally called lardy but have shown to be effective in your tables, I've had good experience using. They do great damage, but not magical creations, as you point out. This is why a mixture of creations is usually best. My most successful game with creations involved using a mixture of fire creations: cryoas, drayks, kysakks, and drakons — and magic creations: artilas, vlish, wingbolts, and an eyebeast. I can't imagine keeping a Chapter 1 critter around for more than three chapters or so and having it be as effective as something newer, but that's what we're still testing to determine, eh? I can't see sacrificing leadership and mechanics for so long while one pumps one shaping magic and then intelligence just so one can have a long-lasting first tier creation. It makes the game frustrating and redundant and you have to remember all the things you missed the first time through areas if you have low mechanics or leadership. So, for those of you disciplined purists who DO truly focus just on shaping at the sacrifice of so much else, how does it really play out, and how fun is it? -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Tuesday, November 28 2006 20:22
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I was willing to sacrifice early creations for decent mechanics and some leadership. I never tried cryoas so I didn't mind losing my 3 fyoras and later roamers. I did use some artilas into chapter 4 with increasing strength to up their ability to hit and damage. What I did was just before entering chapter 3 I raised my shaping level to 10. This gives strong tier 3 and 4 level creations that you can keep for the rest of the game unless they're glaahks. Guardian Dameron kept terrorizing mine even with mental barrier and some charms. Drayks, cryodraks, wingbolts, and kyshakks all will have enough health and damage ability to survive. You do need a mixture of damage types to prevail against all the creations you face. Also after chapter 3 you definitely need 5 or more in order to have enough attacks per round when you face the "impossible" area of Western Morass, Poryphra Ruins as a Rebel, Derenton Freehold as a Shaper killing Litalia, and the expert area and final battles. You can make do with less, but why prolong fights that can be solved quickly with overwhelming firepower. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Wednesday, November 29 2006 04:58
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quote:Drakons actually don't resist magic at ALL. Ur-Drakons do, though. Otherwise they have the same resists: moderate physical resistance and high fire resistance (and high mental). Essentially, unless you really like Eyebeasts or Unstable Wingbolts, you can treat Ur-Drakons the same way you treat Wingbolts. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Wednesday, November 29 2006 17:53
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I thought the Southern sentinel was a drakon but I must have mistaken an ur-drakon. That one had high magic resistance. There are several drakon encounters in the last part of chapter 4 and most of chapter 5. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Thursday, December 7 2006 06:40
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I just updated the tables, because I realized I accidentally made a major goof in the first version -- I did out Artila and Roamers as acid damage, even though they do magic damage. The result is that Magic Shaping no longer looks like a viable path whatsoever. You don't have any answer to Wingbolts, which means you are probably forced to make Drayks, and at that point, you might as well have done Fire Shaping. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Thursday, December 7 2006 06:46
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You don't need any shaping skills at all. I keep telling you that. 2 points through items will get you wingbolts. You can make dryaks by just wearing items. Heck, by items alone you can bring fire shaping up by five or six points... Maybe more. Which with natural skill and a canister or two, brings you close to the 10 point cap. So pumping your shaping skills is a worthless skill investment really, those points are better spent some place else. Like magic skills. Boosting your int. Ratcheting up your endurance. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Thursday, December 7 2006 06:51
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Yeah, that is true. I don't think it's totally worthless. If you're a lifecrafter who has already pumped Int up hugely, it might be worth it to spend 6 skill points to get your Drayks and Kyshakks an extra 2 levels each. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Thursday, December 7 2006 07:20
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But you can hit the 10 cap just through items I believe. Lessee. Necklaces, some pants I believe, boots, a robe, and what else am I missing? A canister or two... If you can hit the cap through items, why waste valuable skill points? You can't get those back. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Thursday, December 7 2006 07:52
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You can get +6 to Fire Shaping and +4 to Battle and Magic Shaping from items. Lifecrafters start with 2 in Fire Shaping, so it's worthwhile to buy 2 levels at any rate. EDIT: And unless Randomizer's list is incomplete, there are no Fire, Battle, or Magic Shaping canisters. [ Thursday, December 07, 2006 07:54: Message edited by: Slartel Runeaxe ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Thursday, December 7 2006 07:55
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I seem to recall a Drakon that sells you canisters for fire, battle, or magic shaping. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Thursday, December 7 2006 08:09
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I am guessing those are the Drakon, War Trall, and Gazer canisters in Khima-Uss. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Thursday, December 7 2006 08:13
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D'oh! **Slaps head with tentacle** -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, December 7 2006 13:50
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There are still benefits for shaping points over 10, although you get diminishing returns. If you can have 10+ points in one kind of shaping and 2 in another, you're probably better off with the creations in the former category. —Alorael, who thinks fire shaping would have been crippled without cryoas and roamers. Being able to deal many types of damage is very, very useful. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Thursday, December 7 2006 16:57
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Fire shaping starts off a little weaker if you just use fyoras, but by chapter 3 the drayks and kyshakks more than make up for the earlier weaknesses. Drayks have unlimited missle attacks and kyshakks are walking shields with decent attacks. I agree that you don't need to put much into shaping skills since you can store the items for the few times you need to create creations. Jeff's revision during beta testing made it easier for all classes to create and lowered the requirements dramatically. Lifecrafters and shock troopers still have the advantage in essence to create armies where the others have to be more selective. Pumping intelligence is still the way to go since more creations allows for more attacks per round. With enough damaging attacks you can wear down an opponent even with weaker creations. The only problem is if they take too much damage and flee in terror so you have to use mental barrier and watch their health. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |