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Harry Potter in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #53
On the subject of spoilers -- perhaps I simply don't understand, seeing as I don't do Harry; but I don't get why they're such a big deal. The following is lifted from a friend's blog, and I agree with it. (As Anatole France said, if something has been said and said well, copy it!)

To me, a good story is not a jack in the box or rattled off list of disparate plot points or details, but rather the journey of the characters and situations and the language and how it is all written together as a whole.

I have read countless stories and books and seen many movies and not one of them would have been ruined or lessened for me personally by knowing say, a plot outline or excerpt in advance. From my perspective, the story isn't about what happens, but rather how it unfolds and is written. In good storytelling, it's all about how the story is told.

Some of you have written "Spoil this or that for me by discussing it at all and I'll kill you!" posts on livejournal, especially recently. Well, I would never do that intentionally or maliciously, but I honestly sincerely don't understand the fanaticism behind it all.

I have read my favorite books and watched my favorite movies more times than most of you would believe. I know exactly what is going to happen. That doesn't stop me from enjoying them greatly one bit.

A great story isn't merely the sum of the events that occur during the tale.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Harry Potter *WITH SPOILERS* in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #3
Did anybody else read that sentence and think "There's a typo in that name, and why is Drew talking about Angel? Oh, wait."

I love not participating in the Potter meme.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #238
quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

The Egpytians were the most particular early civ which had a concept of fire as punishment in the afterlife.
I'm trying to look this up now and I can't find anything. The closest I can find is Ammit, the monster who eats hearts that are heavier than a feather. I'm not convinced that this has anything to do with eternal damnation as opposed to just ceasing to exist. But regardless I can't find any "fire as punishment" -- can you point me in the right direction?

quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

Unless it's enduring a lifetime of listening to Slarty's naggy nitpickery. : P
FAUST
Who then art thou?

MEPHISTOPHELES
Part of that power which still
Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

FAUST
What hidden mystery in this riddle lies?

MEPHISTOPHELES
The spirit I, which evermore denies!
And justly; for whate'er to light is brought
Deserves again to be reduced to naught;
Then better 'twere that naught should be.
Thus all the elements which ye
Destruction, Sin, or briefly, Evil, name,
As my peculiar element I claim.

FAUST
Thou nam'st thyself a part, and yet a whole I see.

MEPHISTOPHELES
The modest truth I speak to thee.
Though folly's microcosm, man, it seems,
Himself to be a perfect whole esteems:
Part of the part am I, which at the first was all,
A part of darkness, which gave birth to light,
Proud light, who now his mother would enthrall,
Contesting space and ancient rank with night.
Yet he succeedeth not, for struggle as he will,
To forms material he adhereth still;
From them he streameth, them he maketh fair,
And still the progress of his beams they check;
And so, I trust, when comes the final wreck,
Light will, ere long, the doom of matter share.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Harry Potter in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #48
I agree with Garrison, and I think Drew's Star Wars comparison is an incisive one. The Potter books are good books, very good books even; but they are not timeless works of artifice that are crenelated and crammed with meaning and metaphor. They access some timeless story patterns, but there is no enlightening counterpoint played over the lines. That isn't necessarily a criticism, but Tolkien and Lewis and Carroll (and Nesbit and Orwell and Milne and St-Exupery and, yes, Dr. Seuss) will all be read further into the future than Rowling will be.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #235
quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

There was a period of Persian captivity following the Babylonian captivity.
*scratches head* Maybe I'm missing something here, but my references all say Cyrus allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem the same year he defeated the Babylonians. (See for example here.)

quote:
"In ancient Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs the “nether world . . . is pictured as a place full of horrors, and is presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” (The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, Boston, 1898, Morris Jastrow, Jr., p. 581)
Well, this is just wrong, or misleading at any rate. While a book from 1898 might be more or less accurate with regard to Hellenic material, the same can't be said for Mesopotamia, which was only beginning to be unearthed and studied at the end of that century. Anyway, Irkalla, Kurnugia, et al. were not places of torment any more than sheol was. As Wikipedia comments, "Irkalla is similar to sheol of the Hebrew Bible" ([URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irkalla]here[/URL).

quote:
Buddhism, which dates back to the 6th century B.C.E., in time came to feature both hot and cold hells.
Ah yes, I forgot about the Buddhist Captivity ;)

quote:
The point of my point is that a hell of punishment and torments, and fire in particular, does not appear in Judaic religion until the New Testament era, and its concept is long predated in a number of other ancient cultures, with which at times the Hebrews were closely intertwined.
The first part of this sentence I agree with, but I don't see it in other ancient cultures. It seems to have been nearly universal to have some aspect of judgment, but nonetheless most people in most cultures got shuffled off to a big dreary underworld where they sat around naked and spent eternity being bored. Where's the hellfire? What torment do these other netherworlds have that sheol didn't?

quote:
it is my observation that the only time you respond to things I write is when you seem particularly interested in making a point of how extremely absurd or illogical or inappropriate you think I am being.
Yes, that's the main reason I respond to anything here. Elsewhere I quite enjoy proposing or even supporting propositions, but here I find so many others put forth so many spurious ones that it's all I can do to swat down the worst of them.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Keeping the Free creations permanently in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #1
You can't keep Greenfang permanently without cheating. Greenfang will turn back when you pass the Cairn Gates if she didn't already leave.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #232
Yes, the Persians did have those beliefs (or most of them did -- I've never been clear on the homogeneity of Persian religion -- but I digress). However, it's called the Babylonian Captivity for a reason. The Babylonians were the ones keeping the Jews there. The exile ended when the Persians came. I'm sure there was some cultural exchange, but I do think that attributing the development of Christian hellfire to that is absurd.

Synergy, I'm sorry if it sounded like a personal attack, but it wasn't. I suppose it was a bit of an overzealous attack -- Mesopotamian religion is a special interest of mine and I hate seeing it misrepresented. But a personal attack would be an attack directed at you rather than at your contributions to the discussion. Saying "I disagree" or "you're wrong," however strongly, is not a personal attack; it's a necessary part of intelligent debate.

I'm honestly not sure what I've done to try to "put you in your place." If you really feel that's how I act, perhaps you can PM me with the details; it isn't my intention to put anybody down (except possibly Vahnatai Creationists and those who start topics about Blades of Geneforge). At any rate let's not derail this topic with personal issues.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #229
quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

Most interestingly, the hell of fire only appears in the New Testament, AFTER the Hebrews were the, um, involuntary guests of the Babylonians, then Persians for a number of generations before being released. The Babylonians and/or Persians did have concepts of fiery punishments in the afterlife. The Hebrews appear to have picked up a whole new concept for their religion just in time for the writing of the New Testament in a Romanized world.
This is completely absurd logic considering

1) the fact that the Israelites had already had contact with other Mesopotamian civilizations, including the Babylonians, for many centuries

2) the number of elements in the Old Testament that were clearly borrowed, adapated from, or inspired by other Mesopotamian civilizations. The Flood and the creation of Adam and Eve are two major examples.

3) the fact that most Mesopotamian religions did not have concepts of fiery punishments in the afterlife. The Babylonian idea of life after death was much closer to your own description of Sheol.

The Babylonian Captivity clearly had a big impact on Judaism, but not in the form of emulation.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Future in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #26
Alo's Modern Life. Maybe we can get the Nickelodeon people to pick it up after all...

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Future in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #23
I'd love to see an RPG equivalent to 3 in Three.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #154
IMAGE(http://www.peteykins.com/images/Sept04/Shriek.jpg)

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Avernum 5, June Update in Avernum 4
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #85
The bottom monitor was handcrafted to fit your neck and chest with a blowtorch. Duh!

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Final Fantasy in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #29
The weapon-learning system was influenced, I think, by FF9's similar system. I agree that it's not ideal.

What you have to do, I think, is realize that you are not building characters of specific classes with strength and weaknesses, you are building characters of specific races with strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately two races outstrip the rest: Humans get Twin Swords and kill in one attack while buffing insanely with Blue Magic, while Viera either Doublecast Madeen summons or use the Conceal/Shadowbind/Last Breath combo. I guess Moogles could be useful for the status effect gunshot attacks and for Time Magic.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Europa, God, and you, or Where it all fits. in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #80
Await patiently the day that you will be mooved by Him and Her.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Final Fantasy in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #26
FF2 wasn't great, but I'd play it over 8 any day. There's no way its advancement system was as tedious and stupid as draw-junction. And comparing TA to 8 is slanderous. TA has flaws, but the story actually goes from crappy to pretty good if you give it time, whereas 8's story goes from really crappy to even crappier. Certainly its battle system was far deeper and more interesting!

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Final Fantasy in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #24
FF8 is quite possibly the worst video game ever made.

Okay, that's an exaggeration, but still. It was hideous.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #123
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Does anyone else notice the glaring hypocrisy, given the last argument that Stillness was in?
Yes. And that's enough to make me check out of this argument.

In respond to the whole rest of the thread though: Oh holy hell.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Europa, God, and you, or Where it all fits. in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #59
I would just like to point out that translation and transliteration are not the same thing as actual derivation, which Infernal seems to be implying.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Europa, God, and you, or Where it all fits. in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #47
This above all: to thine own god be true.
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any god.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
For all of you who haven't noticed... in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #14
Jeff's been pretty clear that it will be the latter.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #98
It's a little-known fact that "troll" actually derives from "Thuryl".

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Alwan and Greta in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #8
It is just you.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #93
Speaking of numbers approaching 1000, how does that theory deal with Methuselah (969), Randomizer?

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #84
Stillness, please answer my questions instead of making rather incorrect guesses about how I see things. As far as the second question goes, it's reasonable to list the Psalms line as a piece of supporting evidence, but surely there must be other evidence remaining if people lived to 70 on average?

I'm not going to argue any more until you answer my questions. I will say however that your second paragraph above leaves me thoroughly confused.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #82
Yes, throughout human history, some people have always lived to be very old; but until modern times it was unusual. I assume you're not arguing that most people in Israel in 1500 BCE lived to be 70 years old, are you?

Two questions:

1) What part of the article do you consider misleading?

2) What evidence do you have for your claim that life expectancy is "the same right now as in the days of Moses"?

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00

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