Europa, God, and you, or Where it all fits.
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
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written Sunday, July 15 2007 17:01
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quote:Jesus: Greek (Latin?) transliteration of Yeshu Yeshu: Acronym of the letters Yud, Shin, Vav Y.SH.V: Yemach Sh'mo V'zichro Yemach Sh'mo V'zichro: Cursed be his name and his memory This name has been used for at least four separate people in the Talmud. Just though I should point this out. Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Sunday, July 15 2007 19:04
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Jesus is from Latin Jesu, which comes from Greek Iesous, which probably comes from Yeshua in Hebrew (or Aramaic). The gospels wouldn't be calling for Christ's name to be accursed, and there's a perfectly good name that doesn't rely on acronyms. Also, my understanding is that that particular epithet is reserved for those who come close to being perfect embodiments of evil. Judaism may not recognize Jesus as anyone special, but he was hardly evil. —Alorael, who would very much like to see a citation on your etymology. It seems highly questionable and very close to religious bigotry. Yes, Jews are good at that too. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Sunday, July 15 2007 22:21
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Personally reminds me of the Vicarius Filii Dei numerology bit. Quoth the statistician, "give me three free parameters and I'll draw you an elephant", but replied the symbologist "give me a name or number and a point and I'll make the former prove the latter". -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. | I have a love of woodwind instruments. "That damn meddling eskimo." --WKS about Alorael Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
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written Monday, July 16 2007 04:58
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quote:How does Yeshua traslate to Iesous? quote:Because they were written in Greek and Latin, not Hebrew. Why should they have known? quote:No, merely for anyone whom it would be preferable to not mention and forget ever existed. quote:Latin translation of the Tanach, which translates Yeshu as Jesu, which you handily pointed out is where Jesus comes from. Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4248
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written Monday, July 16 2007 05:38
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quote:I think that the incompatibility of God with determinism depends on the nature of God, as well as the nature of determinism. In absolute determinism, where things can go only one way, I quess it is true unless God resides outside the boundaries of this pre-determined existence, which I find somewhat... well, artificial, in lack of better word. In the case of probabilistic determinism, where things can go a vast number of ways (although where every possibility can be accounted for and given a probability), a God, even an interfering one, can easily reside within the limits of universe. Of course, this also means that actions of God himself can be accounted for and given probabilities, which could explain a number of things. You know, were we having this conversation in finnish, I would give you a two-page explanation of what I'm thinking. In english, I'm not sure whether even that small bit of text makes any sense. I hope you manage to get a grasp of what I mean. -------------------- I have nothing more to do in this world, so I can go & pester the inhabitants of the next one with a pure concscience. Posts: 617 | Registered: Tuesday, April 13 2004 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Monday, July 16 2007 05:42
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A little googling turns up a transliteration into Roman characters of the Septuagint Book of Joshua, in which "ihsous" is the Greek rendering of the Hebrew name whose English version is "Joshua". (The transliteration represents eta with 'h', which looks like the Greek letter eta, but doesn't sound at all like it.) 'Ihsous' is also the original New Testament name that got transliterated into Latin as 'Jesus'. ('Jesu' would be the vocative case, I believe.) So, as Christians have always said, 'Jesus' is the same name as 'Joshua'. A fitting enough name for someone who was alleged to be picking up where Moses left off. The Septuagint (so called for its legendary production by seventy scholars) was a late BCE Greek version of the Bible, widely used by diaspora Jews. Jerome evidently transliterated Greek Ihsous into 'Jesus', but working directly from Hebrew to Latin instead of through Greek, transliterated the Hebrew for Joshua into 'Josue'. So in Latin the two names became different. I await correction from any of the real classicists or Hebraists who are around. I'm just a googler who once audited intro to ancient Greek. [ Monday, July 16, 2007 05:46: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ] -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Monday, July 16 2007 05:45
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(Blazes, again I hit 'quote' instead of 'edit'. Covering up fast ... Nah, I don't really have anything interesting to say about determinism. I've had enough quantum mechanics for today already. Sorry.) [ Monday, July 16, 2007 05:48: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ] -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Monday, July 16 2007 05:52
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I'll let Kel cover that, because my Greek at this point is MEGA rusty, but I believe that the "Joshua" = "Jesus" assertion is sound. Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4248
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written Monday, July 16 2007 06:37
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quote:Awww, I wanted to know... Well, maybe tomorrow then? *ebil grin* -------------------- I have nothing more to do in this world, so I can go & pester the inhabitants of the next one with a pure concscience. Posts: 617 | Registered: Tuesday, April 13 2004 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Monday, July 16 2007 07:44
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I would just like to point out that translation and transliteration are not the same thing as actual derivation, which Infernal seems to be implying. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Monday, July 16 2007 07:56
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If a Jewish guy was just named Joshua, then it makes as much sense to derive his name from an acronym as to start figuring out what GEORGE might stand for. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5483
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written Monday, July 16 2007 08:24
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"Acts of God" brings up an interesting point. One of my pet peeves (I'm an atheist btw) is when people are always saying thank God for x or thank god x did/didn't happen where x can be anything. Here are some amusing examples: thank God the water wasn't poisoned: are you perhaps thanking him for not poisoning your water? thank God I decided not to shoot myself: are you thanking him for not encouraging you to do so or what? thank God I sold enough to cover the rent: perhaps you believe God stood outside and demanded that people go in and buy stuff? Of course the reason behind this is that people are just so used to saying it they don't even think about it no matter how silly it is in that situation. Even when I was a Christian I didn't attribute divine influence to squat. Oh well. btw sorry if anyone was offended instead of amused. [ Monday, July 16, 2007 08:27: Message edited by: The_Other_Guy ] -------------------- Ignorance Is bliss -Cypher (Matrix) Don't think you can; know you can -Morpheus (Matrix) sanity is overrated :) Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, February 7 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4248
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written Monday, July 16 2007 08:41
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I find those sort of sentiments funny too, and this is further amplified by the fact that I am often the one most commonly using them. Nowadays, I feel they even add some unintended self-irony and sarcasm to my speech and writing. It's my own, big inside joke, and I'm growing quite fond of it. -------------------- I have nothing more to do in this world, so I can go & pester the inhabitants of the next one with a pure concscience. Posts: 617 | Registered: Tuesday, April 13 2004 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Monday, July 16 2007 09:18
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My favorite from undergrad: "Thank God she isn't pregnant!" :) It's a sentiment that definitely makes for good existential food for thought. Here's another one we encounter pretty frequently when we're out shopping: "If you need anything, my name's Abby." Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4248
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written Monday, July 16 2007 09:40
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"Thank God she isn't pregnant!" Catholic birth control! XP [ Monday, July 16, 2007 09:40: Message edited by: Frozen Feet ] -------------------- I have nothing more to do in this world, so I can go & pester the inhabitants of the next one with a pure concscience. Posts: 617 | Registered: Tuesday, April 13 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 16 2007 10:00
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I find "thank God for x" overused too. I must admit that I am less irritated by it than I was before. The idea is that "every good and perfect present is from above." The problem becomes identifying what truly is a "perfect present." For example, if someone doesn't shoot themselves it was their will to live that won over. That comes from God and is good, so he can rightly be thanked. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, July 16 2007 10:27
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Speaking of "coming from God," I have been finding the phrase "Holy __it" extremely funny over the past few days. I mean really, if there was divine excrement, would it really be holy? -------------------- WWtNSD? Synergy - "I don't get it." Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, July 16 2007 13:56
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quote:Because the writers of the Gospels are, according to the Gospels, eyewitnesses. They spoke the same language as Jesus, and that language was some kind of Hebrew-Aramaic. And again, even if the writers didn't know the language, Jesus surely didn't call himself by an epithet like that. Nor would his followers. So where in the line did it get introduced? quote:Okay, then why would anyone consider it preferable to forget that Jesus existed? According to Christians, it's pretty important not to. According to Jews, he was simply a guy, and possibly a false messiah depending on how much of his reputation was his own doing. Other false messiahs don't get deliberaetely forgotten. quote:You're assuming a converse here. It's possible to get Jesu from more than one word. In fact, given the similarity of Yeshu and Yeshua, the single syllable difference seems like a likely casualty of transliteration. —Alorael, who still thinks this one ought to go to the classics experts. He also thinks this makes a good crazy theory, but it's fairly crazy and fairly irrelevant either way. Showing that someone (presumably Jews) didn't get along with Jesus doesn't do anyone any good. [ Monday, July 16, 2007 13:59: Message edited by: Question Nothing But Kittens ] Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Monday, July 16 2007 15:55
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In the hidden bonus track on Chris Rock's Bigger & Blacker album, the middleweight boxing champion of the world has just been declared. An interviewer asks him how he won, so he thanks God and says he couldn't have done it without God's help. Then, the interviewer talks to the loser, who has some broken bones, bruises, and a dislocated eyeball, and the loser says that he almost won, but then God punched him in the head and beat him up. He could have beaten his opponent one-on-one, but him against the champion and the Lord together isn't fair. -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, July 16 2007 16:07
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quote:Sweet! I'm gonna have to get me a piece of that action. -------------------- WWtNSD? Synergy - "I don't get it." Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Tuesday, July 17 2007 02:30
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It's sad that you people are joking about this. The whole sport of competitive cycling is collapsing, as leader after leader fails urine tests for divine assistance. They all thought it was undetectable, but testing technology caught up with them. Now the officials just hang around outside the stalls, watching for the telltale glow. Fail two photon counts in a row, buddy, and you can hand back that yellow jersey. Some of them try to protest that they don't even believe in God, that they only said those prayers to please their mother. Sure. EDIT: Seriously, though, I had a cool experience with this once, which is certainly not evidence for God or anything, for anyone else, but which was and is important to me. I tell the story here for its take on the ethical problem of divine assistance. In my undergrad school the freshman honors physics course was notoriously the toughest thing on campus. It owed this reputation in part to the fact that its exams always featured one question, out of only four or five in total, that was essentially a brain teaser, since nothing in the course material had directly prepared for it. On the half-year exam that I took, there was one of those 'prove something that is hard even to believe' questions. (For the physicists here: a uniformly charged sphere, with an empty spherical cavity inside it, anywhere, but fully contained by the larger sphere. Prove that the electric field inside the cavity is the same everywhere in the cavity. There's a particular formula for it, that we had to prove, but the constancy is the surprising feature.) After staring at this for a while with no idea how to deal with it, I decided that it would be no more unfair for God to just inspire me with an answer during the exam, than to have made me smart enough in the first place not to have needed any such hint. So I prayed for inspiration. Then I spent the last half hour or so of the allotted time, having solved all the other problems, calmly poking around the various things I could think of that might have some connection to that weird fourth problem. And in the last minutes of the exam, the answer came to me. It was very short and elegant: one simple lemma, invoke linear superposition, draw a diagram, done. 25% of the exam points in three lines. I realized that I had the answer only in the act of writing it. As one of the few other people who solved this problem said to me afterwards, 'What a rush!' He must have had a somewhat similar experience with the problem, though I never heard him say prayer was involved. But the professor remarked later that my solution was the only one that found the elegant diagrammatic proof. I have had much more fervent prayers for far more vital things denied, before and since. But I feel as though my ethical premise, that there isn't really any such thing as 'my own abilities', was somehow endorsed. [ Tuesday, July 17, 2007 03:20: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ] -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, July 17 2007 03:20
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quote:You have won 1 (ONE) Internet. This voucher is redeemable everywhere in the Webtubes. -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. | I have a love of woodwind instruments. "That damn meddling eskimo." --WKS about Alorael Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Tuesday, July 17 2007 04:17
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I remember that problem *shudder*. In hindsight it''s easy, but doing it for the first time is a horror as you try to grind through the math of an integral of infintesimal charges in three dimensions. The insight of how to simplify wrecks you. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Tuesday, July 17 2007 11:29
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Nice problem. I had fun doing it just now (although don't ask me to prove the result it relies on, that part of my brain dissolved some time ago, or something...). Although you did give rather a large hint. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. New Mac BoE Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 27
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written Tuesday, July 17 2007 12:01
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I don't think humanity can ever fully comprehend the universe, let alone God. As far as I'm concerned, the two could be one in the same. I guess I'm a bit of an animist, but also agnostic in that I don't think we'll ever be able to explain this mystery. On another note, whether religious or not, I believe in the power of prayer. When I'm left with no active options to help those I hurt for, prayer is a good way to extend a silent reassurance to those in need. quote:I think that only applies if you assume a God punishes those who don't believe in him. Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |