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How do we perceive fringe groups? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #21
This is not an argument which either side can "win". Whoever wins wins with blood and misery. There can only be some kind of mediation, with a willingness to kill or subdue extremists on both sides of the issue.

Unfortunately, it behooves the other superpowers to destabilize the region so they can get cheap oil, cheap labor, and a constantly threatened heavily militarized Israel.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
How do we perceive fringe groups? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #18
Neither side in the case of Israel can be right because of how Israel came into being historically. When the British left Israel they purposefully did not give the land to either side and a war was fomented. It was an unnecessary war. Before the war, both Israelis and Palestinians had a history of blowing up British police stations and other acts of terror. No one wants to hear this probably. When the war was over the Israelis won.

At this point, there could have been a solution. Put the palestinians on marginal land and leave them alone. The answer turned into we own everything get out which is why the current situation is going on. The land was given to us by the bible and no one but us can be settled on it.

As far as antisemitism is concerned-- A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Armenians, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians. Jews are not the only semitic people.

Furthermore, the reason for making someone Jewish because there mother is Jewish is for an entirely different purpose. During the early time of the Israelites other tribes and groups repeatedly conquered them. With conquest comes rape and other things. One way to ensure legitimacy in situations of mass rape and conquest is to make all children legitimate through the mothers line. Also paternity was impossible to prove in those days, you knew who the mother was definitely, but not the father.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Beta-Call for Canopy in Blades of Avernum
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #5
Name: Buttered Toast
Email: wehireu@yahoo.com
Programming Ability: None
Platform: Windows XP
Betatesting Experience: A Perfect Forest, working on Undead Valley, a few hints here and there on other things.
Playing Experience: I've played all of the current Blades of Avernum scenarios, twiddled with the utilities, plus a few test things like Battle Arena.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Basalt Walls in Blades of Avernum
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #1
The only problem I've ever had with basalt walls is that it is often difficult to see the cracks in some of the walls unless you look very closely. The bottom row of walls are cracked walls. You might want to do a few more cracked walls with a contrasting color for the cracks other than black-- possibly grey or blue.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Interesting idea and an also interesting post in Blades of Avernum
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #16
I would rather not see a scenario start in the caves but move forward to the open end points at the end of Avernum 3. The obvious open end points are 1) The imperial capital of Avernum, 2) The deep edges of the Vahnati kingdoms, 3) The caves of the Slith homelands. And possibly 4) And a new one a connection to homeworld of the Nephilim, Zyon, or a connection to the Vahnati homeworld. Even 5) Imperial diplomacy between the Vahnati, Sliths, Avernites, and Surface. There are others. These are suggestions.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
How do we perceive fringe groups? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #2
That is very easy to answer. You cannot convert into an ethnicity. Judaism can be converted into-- a person of any ethnicity or race can choose to convert to Judaism. It is a religion.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Parallel Fantasy Worlds and Avernum in Blades of Avernum
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #12
Looked through the interviews to see what influenced Jeff Vogel. Pulled out a few quotes.
Pretty surprised to see that Harlan Ellison and
Robert Silverberg seem to be two strongest
written influences. In computer games Ultima and
Wizardry are the two most mentioned. Mentions in
passsing Baldurs Gate 2, and Planescape Torment.

Gamezone Interview

Spidweb 2: Harlan Ellison is God. Let me repeat, t
clear all ambiguity. Harlan Ellison, while
personally sometimes a wee bit of a jerk, is God. I love the emotionally impacting way he writes
and often let it influence the way I design my
stories. Though I'm influenced by many other
writers as well. Anyone who's read a lot of
Silverberg will see a lot of his ideas have influence my stories. And, of course, there are many others.

I'm influenced a huge amount by SF authors

Gamespot/ Gamepen

Plus, I hate the whole Tolkien thing of the standard human/elf/half- elf/dwarf/halfling/gnome/whatever thing, where there's allthese races and you don't know who any of them are.

This was the first thing I decided when writing Exile: NO ELVES.

Vault Network

Jeff Vogel: Iâve been more influenced by the mid-range Ultimas (IV-VI) than any other series of games. How could you not be? Just for the stories alone, these are probably the best and most influential rpgs ever.

Mac Gamers Ledge

How'd you come up with the name "Slithzerikai"? Was the idea for the race inspired by anything?

I just made it up, and the idea was pretty much my own. I thought them up for the first time in junior high, as part of a D&D campaign I never
made up.

Eboredom:
JEFF VOGEL: Well, Phantasie and Wizard's Crown were good titles, but Wizardry and Ultima had the combination of ingenuity and good,
solid design that makes a winner.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Parallel Fantasy Worlds and Avernum in Blades of Avernum
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #9
So what. This has nothing to do with originality. It has to do with finding out if people have read anything enjoyable or interesting about cat people, lizard people, and other things which might be applicable in a loose way to the Avernum setting. What they have liked and disliked, etc. It has nothing to do with bizarre philosophical rants.

Going back to a recent scenario in Avernum, A Perfect Forest, I wonder what the ship is based on. I like to read a comic called A Distant Soil by Colleen Doran. One of the technologies there is giant crystalline ships run by psionics very similar to magic. I think it is a neat concept.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
My Pants! Or an assay into.. The stupidity of MY life in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #2
There is nothing like the freedom to wander around your own house in loose underwear. Private nudity with good window shades is a blessing. However, I have no desire to see people nude in public. It is not as pretty or as interesting as you might think. Plus it makes some people crazy...

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Ethics? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #58
In every major industrialized country there is negative population growth-- less than 2.1 children per adult. The only reason this does not happen in the United States is because of immigration and a higher rate of immigrant births initially. Immigration should be much more selectively based on marketable skills in the developing world.

In India rising economic well being caused the birth rate to go from 6.3 kids per family to 3.4 kids per family.

The reason behind this is not Orwellian one child per family laws. 1) If you make every child go to a classroom, especially with college, they become an economic burden on families, it costs to have children when they are not laboring in the fields, making rugs, or doing piecework in factories. 2) If you have readily available birth control, it makes people less likely to have kids. 3) If you convince people they need to consume lots of crap like the majority of us Spiderwebbers do, it becomes economically unfeasible to have large numbers of kids.

Before Orwellian laws are introduced change the economics of having too many kids. 1) Force education, 2) Make birth control readily available, 3) Tell people they have a right to a higher standard of living.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Ethics? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #51
Morgan I am not going to back off the intelligence thing. I used Catholics and Islam as examples not because they were specific to what was being said. I do believe in most cases which I've run into when people talk about people having too many kids, they are referring to having too many kids which are not like them. A statement like all people should have not more than three children under any circumstances regardless of who they are would have eliminated my picking up on bias.

This is the real world. If you cannot function socially or emotionally in every day life it doesn't matter how intelligent you are. Testing for psychopathic, schizophrenic, or depressive tendencies will make more of a difference in the world ultimately than testing for intelligence.

I am not saying genetic testing is bad. I am stating what is happening. I think it is a good thing. But only a good thing when it is used to benefit the whole population not specific groups over others. Genetic elitism is gross. Raising the quality of the gene pool in an egalitarian way-- by offering genetic screening for diseases on a free basis would be a tremendous boon. I am ambivalent about sex testing in genetics. I do not think choosing certain traits like sex is ethical. However, the ultimate result of having less people in China and India might benefit them.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Ethics? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #48
Education is not directly correlated to intelligence. The reason people have more children is cultural not because they are stupid. Catholics think it is immoral to use birth control and abortion for example-- therefore they have more children. A large portion of the immigrant population is Catholic especially from the Latin American countries in the United States. The "stupid" statement is barely hidden racism in this case.

I have heard this line many times from bitter people who are angry because they are intelligent and not "advancing" in their life. This attitude if openly expressed is a guaranteed way to get you stuck in your career and life. It is very divisive.

There are also many types of intelligence which can be tested for. Ultimately, emotional and social stability are more important than intelligence in many cases.

Many Islamic people believes it is more important to have a large healthy family than acquire lots of property and wealth. People are more respected for this than having three houses in the middle east. We have a notion that it is good to have just 2 kids in the United States. This is not true for many parts of the world.

With free genetic testing two things happen. Most people refuse to have retarded children or handicapped children. Thus there are less people who are "stupid" which is an obnoxious statement. Eventually if genetic testing is widespread enough and cheap enough, the level of what is considered unacceptably stupid will rise.
More important than stupid is the ability to diagnose genetic tendencies towards schizophrenia, depression, and other mental illnesses. This allows people to prepare for children who may have destructive tendencies and raise them accordingly. You can start early in life so you won't have a nut case later in life.

The second thing which happens which is surprising is boys are chosen over girls which is a sickness. In India and China there has been explosion in the birth rate of boys I think it might be as high as 10 boys for every girl in some areas. This will eventually cause a population die off in some areas of the world about 2-3 generations from now. It will also hopefully change the attitude towards women in these areas.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Parallel Fantasy Worlds and Avernum in Blades of Avernum
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #5
Greek fire is most likely petroleum- crude oil mixed with something else to change its viscosity. It reads like napalm.

Another thought. A parallel world not fantasy but science fiction might be C.J. Cherryh's Pride of Chanurh. There are cat people, humans, and lizard people. It would be interesting if Nephilim had a system of Pride's where the most capable nephilim got to breed kind of like Lions. It would follow from A Perfect Forest.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Parallel Fantasy Worlds and Avernum in Blades of Avernum
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #0
Hello all,
There are a number of different fantasy settings which Avernum seems to pull from. Some of the ideas which seem to come from other fantasy settings are.

Quickfire very much reminds me of clingfire from Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series. Hopefully someone will introduce another terror from Darkover-- bonewater dust -- a kind of magical poison which causes permanent damage to land like the Avernite plagues. There are also cat people in Darkover.

Another parallel which I can draw from Marion Zimmer Bradley is the sliths, one of her early works is called the Survivors which includes saurians with a strong philosophical bent. It could also be from other sources. Robert J. Sawyer has a book called Far Seer which recently came out concerning a sauroid race.

The Nephilim are interesting. The Kzinti from Larry Niven's universe are cat like but nothing like the Nephilim. However, there could be some interesting parallels.

I am interested in finding out where some of the ideas in fantasy writing are drawn from which have been used in Avernum. I find it a relief that many of the ideas are not Tolkienesque.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Ethics? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #35
Oops double post. Many of the subjects on this board use circular logic. Including this one. DEFINITION -- Circular logic is a logical error, caused by first making some assumption that can't be proven true, then, on the basis of that assumption, deriving some result that is then used to "prove" that the first assumption is true.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Ethics? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #34
I Would Pay Your Wergild-- Plato is most remembered for The Allegory of the Cave, and Phaedo-- Apology -- when he drinks hemlock and apologizes for his behavior in Athens. These are understandable and for the most part enlightening. They may be a a good place to start.

TM what it basically comes down to is if someone approaches me with an extreme ethical position-- I look at it with a healthy dose of skepticism and try to stay moderate. I'm really not worried about making sense a lot of the time.

Sometimes I write in the style of a koan where what is being said can't be understood on a logical level. Silly statements like I have a masters degree yet I never finished high school. I am nothing but I encompass everything.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Fun websites in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #10
I'm a big fan of this idiocy http://www.schlockmercenary.com

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Fun websites in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #3
Being a perpetual news junky. This lists most of the major newspapers in english online around the world along with a variety of other interesting things.

http://www.aldaily.com -- Arts and Letters Daily.

Also being a fan of weird news.

http://www.snopes.com
http://www.forteantimes.com

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Ethics? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #29
There is the conception of the middle way in buddhism-- that going to extremes in ascetism or pleasure lead one away from enlightenment. Moral absolutism in either direction is unacceptable.

In a similar manner in stoicism moderation in all action is pushed. Taking extreme views destroys ones equilibrium and ability to think clearly.

We are talking about ethical decisions here. The example of the Iraq war is an interesting one. The point is not about whether or not I support or do not support the Iraq war. The point is on how I've made my ethical decision.

I cannot accept a simplistic view that might come from moral absolutism an example might be -- God told me what is right to do for America we should kill all muslims.

Nor will I accept someone saying in a morally relativistic way-- Islamic terrorists have an equally valid worldview as my own so we should leave them alone.

Aquinas talked about how he combined faith with reason. What he could not work through with reason he did not accept in faith. People have lost a sense of balance in discussing the issues. They speak from the heart but can't give a clear coherent logical argument about why they believe what they do.

Polarized people are very easy to control, lie to and manipulate.

I do not support the war in Iraq. I did suport the war in Afghanistan-- they did not finish the job.

Cool it TM. Your posture of my interests are too esoteric for other people to understand is too tempting to stick pins in.

Make a date with Kropotkin and don't forget to bring your raincoat.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Ethics? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #22
It is very easy to be polarized neither moral relativism, nor moral absolutism is particularly acceptable. It is very easy to manipulate people when they swing too far in either direction. There is such a thing as moderation. A lot of Americans have forgotten this especially with this weird election going on and the terrorist fanatics blowing things up.

Anyways, I think I'll stop my mental wanging for the moment.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Ethics? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #19
There can never be a universal morality which everyone will agree to. The point is that moral relativism is limited. You will always be able to come up with aberrations-- a tribe that eats parts of its grandparents in the death bed ceremony to remember them, koreans eating dogs, etc.

Moral relativism leads to the idea of amorality being acceptable. Which in my opinion is dangerous. A kind of moral numbness.

Amoral--

1) Not admitting of moral distinctions or judgments; neither moral nor immoral.

2) Lacking moral sensibility; not caring about right and wrong.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Ethics? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #16
TM it is an interesting idea to say that it is ethical to oppress people. What a nice idea.
Plato's republic is very similar to a fascist state. It is broken down by caste. Most caste systems are falling to pieces right now. They have proven to be not very effective in a modern setting. Plato seems to love the Spartans who are remembered for their military victories and system of brutalizing their slaves the helots and little else. Xenophon the other little remembered disciple of Plato often makes more sense than Socrates.

Generosity and helping people does not make a moral system. People who are on the edge of starvation in my opinion are not being treated ethically. There simply is not much time for philosophy if you work 15 hours a day in the fields.

Prince Albert In A Can-- those examples are kind of strange-- for the most part you are talking about people who have chosen to marginalize themselves from society, or are marginalized because of their mental conditions. Thus they are actively trying to separate themselves from the majority of society's ethics. In general my point is focused on "society", not marginalized individuals.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Ethics? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #9
Moral relativism in many ways is nonsense. There are common things which people want in an ethical or social system for the most part 1) a sense of justice, 2) a clear moral code which they can live by, 3) a guarantee that they can seek happiness and for many people liberty and the right to practice a clear cut religion or philosophy, 4) a guarantee that they can support their families and associates. 5) freedom from fear and oppression.

People cannot practice or even look at ethics if they are starving. I strongly believe in the Hierarchy of Needs created by Abraham Maslow. I think it is necessary to create conditions for people to thrive before ethics can even be suggested.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Politics in Exile? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #32
Anarchism, Communism, Libertarianism, Socialism, Capitalism -- the majority of state systems start from basic assumptions about how human nature works. These assumptions are from political thinkers from the 19th century and have very little relation to how people really think.

There was no study of sociology, brain science, psychology, or even comparative world religious systems at the time. Someone sat down and pondered on the question for a bit then wrote something which we are to accept on an almost dogmatic level. Then a group of people adopted that persons ideas as a kind of group think. It amazes me to no end that people fail to question this.

The educated citizen today in many ways knows more than the people who created these philosophies. It might be nice to start from scratch in forming a new government and pragmatically look at what is in the best interests of the majority of citizens-- based on universal common decisions directly decided by elected representatives of the people being governed and voted into being by a binding universal forced vote. A directly formed democratic commonality.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Politics in Exile? in General
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #29
In philosophical terms the end points are supposed to be the same between communism and anarchism. In historical reality they are completely different. I remember an illustrative story I heard about the russian revolution; the communists were on the right side of a train station shooting at the czarists on the left side of the station shooting at the communists, the anarchists were in the middle shooting at both sides. This was also true during the Spanish civil war. The communists often fought the anarchists rather than attack the falangists. Anarchism often gets the short end of the stick. Leftists have a tendency to attack themselves if they are not careful.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00

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