My God can beat up your God!

Error message

Deprecated function: implode(): Passing glue string after array is deprecated. Swap the parameters in drupal_get_feeds() (line 394 of /var/www/pied-piper.ermarian.net/includes/common.inc).

Pages

Author	Topic: My God can beat up your God!
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Monday, May 29 2006 08:41 Profile Homepage #150 Christian texts do indicate that the Christian god is the same as the Jewish god. Muslim texts indicate that their god is the same as the Christian and Jewish god. So the later religions definitely do have reason to think that the earlier are worshipping the same god, albeit imperfectly. I think the worst that a Jew could say about a Christian or a Christian could say about a Muslim is that the later follower is following a false revelation and worshipping the same god imperfectly, as long as one assumes that the god that one tries to worship is the god that one ends up worshipping. I think Slarty is talking about a different concept of "the same god," though. His only argument has been, "Christians and Jews believe a very different set of things about the figure," which sounds much more like a descriptive analysis than a theological position. This is essentially saying, "Christianity and Judaism are different, so their gods must be functionally different, too." To which I respond: functionally, yes. Theologically, no. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Monday, May 29 2006 08:55 Profile Homepage #151 I was reminded of specific atheism by earlier events yesterday. Slarty, you've really lost me. I think Kel covered the God side already, but besides the obvious linguistic difference of "dieu" and "dios" being evolutions of the same word into two different languages, what's the difference? You say the meaning isn't the same, but I can't see how. A god is a god is a god. This may not be true for the "god" word in a very different culture with very different basic understanding of religion and gods, but English, Latin, French, and Spanish all share a sufficiently homogenous religious culture. —Alorael, who has scientifically proven the existence of God by redefining God. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Robinator is a Beefcake Lifecrafter Member # 34	written Monday, May 29 2006 09:29 Profile Homepage #152 Dog's line of logic: DOG=GOD, therefore GOD=DOG. CAT is just TAC. Hah." Cat's line of logic: CAT=GOD. [ Monday, May 29, 2006 09:29: Message edited by: Robinator, #034 ] -------------------- Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. 'Spiderweb Software' anagrammmed: 'Word-bereft Awipe' Posts: 702 \| Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00**
Dintiradan Guardian Member # 6670	written Monday, May 29 2006 19:06 Profile Homepage #153 Robinator: Elaborate for the unenlightened. Such as myself :) . GJ: To be blunt, I don't think these boards are for you. From what I can extrapolate from your posts, you converted to Christianity after a series of very difficult personal experiences. Your posts might be appealing to someone with the same background as you. However, the vast majority of the members on these boards will not share your experiences. Describing your personal path to religion has been mostly ineffect. Also, it seems that you stand against being a member of any sort of organized religion. Is this just me reading too much in your posts? Infernal: Just curious: do Judaists today use terms such as Elohim, Elohay Marom, El Hakavod etc.? Apologies in advance if this is deemed an insult; it isn't meant to be. EDIT: Thanks, Alorael. In my limited knowledge, I thought Jew refered to the ethnic group, and Judaist to the followers of Judaism. -------------------- a.k.a. Elohay Kol Basar (an important to keep in mind). [ Monday, May 29, 2006 19:45: Message edited by: Dintiradan ] Posts: 1509 \| Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Monday, May 29 2006 19:34 Profile Homepage #154 That would depend on the denomination of Judaism. That said, all the Jews I know of use the many terms for God, but generally only in a religious, reverent context. —Alorael, who is operating under the assumption that Judaist is an odd term for a Jew. [ Monday, May 29, 2006 19:36: Message edited by: Timothy Edible ] Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Nikita xXx BANNED Member # 7175	written Monday, May 29 2006 21:22 Profile #155 :o I don't realy have a religion. Is that a bad thing??? Posts: 32 \| Registered: Monday, May 29 2006 07:00
Jumpin Salmon ? Man, ? Amazing Member # 5755	written Monday, May 29 2006 21:38 Profile #156 Eddie, you are my new hero. Go get'em tiger. -------------------- quote: Originally written by Kelandon: Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing. Posts: 4114 \| Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Meeshka Shock Trooper Member # 6908	written Tuesday, May 30 2006 00:29 Profile #157 quote: Originally written by Kelandon: Christian texts do indicate that the Christian god is the same as the Jewish god. Muslim texts indicate that their god is the same as the Christian and Jewish god. So the later religions definitely do have reason to think that the earlier are worshipping the same god, albeit imperfectly. To continue this thought, or better to say, to correct a little I should say this: it is not an imperfect worshipping of ... oh, I'm afraid to put this word in context of this thread... God. But the main disagreement of mentioned religions is worshipping God's "messiah". For Judaists he hasn't yet come, for christians Christ is a synonym to messiah, and for Muslims it was Mahomet. Judaists deny both. Christians deny one. Muslims do not deny any, but worship the last one. An interesting article I found while searching for some detailes for my post. The article is pouring light on the origins of Tamplier's idol Baphomet: - an old-french variant of Mahomet - from greek words Baph and Metis="immersion of wisdom". -------------------- 9 masks sing in a choir: Gnome Dwarf Slith Giant Troll Troglo Human Nephil Vahnatai "If the mask under mask to SE of mask to the left of mask and to the right of me is the mask below the mask to the right of mask to the right of mask below me is the same, then who am I?" radix: +2 nicothodes: +1 salmon:+1 Posts: 203 \| Registered: Tuesday, March 14 2006 08:00
radix malorum est cupiditas Lifecrafter Member # 6403	written Tuesday, May 30 2006 01:10 Profile #158 quote: Originally written by Dintiradan: Infernal: Just curious: do Judaists today use terms such as Elohim, Elohay Marom, El Hakavod etc.? Apologies in advance if this is deemed an insult; it isn't meant to be. EDIT: Thanks, Alorael. In my limited knowledge, I thought Jew refered to the ethnic group, and Judaist to the followers of Judaism. -------------------- a.k.a. Elohay Kol Basar (an important to keep in mind). Those are all acceptible, when speaking about and only about god. Though Elohay Marom and Elohay Kol Basar don't find much usage. -------------------- ??? ?????? ???? ????? Posts: 883 \| Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00
GremlinJoe Shock Trooper Member # 1814	written Tuesday, May 30 2006 01:19 Profile #159 Well, the whole point of most of the information I gave was either to show that with God all things really are possible, as seen in my life, or to explain some things that might leave some people wondering in confusion. I've often found that the more information I give the less people understand. But anyway I got swept away in trying to explain something I never intended to talk about. I made a vague comment on my old life and just expected people ignore it. I was surprised to have to elaborate on it. I often get carried away in such endeavors. I have have a complex where I'd rather people either knew the full me of didn't even think about it. Really, don't think about it unless you think you can handle the full picture. You can if you want but I'll only be compelled by my difficult nature to straighten out the mess of misinformation. And I'm not against organized religion, I just don't think they're a good idea for people who can get to carried away with the establishment and lose sight of who the church is about. I've seen a lot of that. -------------------- The great light bulb converses its thoughts in a fashion most particular to its complicated nature. Neither twenty-one nor forsaken any longer, I now stand in freedom through Jesus Christ. Posts: 215 \| Registered: Friday, August 30 2002 07:00
Drakefyre Triad Mage Member # 7	written Tuesday, May 30 2006 02:38 Profile Homepage #160 Mohammed is not the messiah for Muslims - he is just God's last prophet. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 \| Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Meeshka Shock Trooper Member # 6908	written Tuesday, May 30 2006 04:12 Profile #161 quote: Originally written by Drakefyre: Mohammed is not the messiah for Muslims - he is just God's last prophet. I'm sorry, but in our language the meaning is almost the same. -------------------- 9 masks sing in a choir: Gnome Dwarf Slith Giant Troll Troglo Human Nephil Vahnatai "If the mask under mask to SE of mask to the left of mask and to the right of me is the mask below the mask to the right of mask to the right of mask below me is the same, then who am I?" radix: +2 nicothodes: +1 salmon:+1 Posts: 203 \| Registered: Tuesday, March 14 2006 08:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Tuesday, May 30 2006 05:06 Profile Homepage #162 quote: Originally written by Drakefyre: Mohammed is not the messiah for Muslims - he is just God's last prophet. Out of interest, does "last" in this context mean "last ever" or "most recent"? Is there any possibility for another prophet in the future, as there seems to be in Judaism and Christianity? -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Maimonides Warrior Member # 7171	written Tuesday, May 30 2006 05:24 Profile #163 quote: Originally written by Henry Anthony Wilcox: quote: Originally written by Drakefyre: Mohammed is not the messiah for Muslims - he is just God's last prophet. Out of interest, does "last" in this context mean "last ever" or "most recent"? Is there any possibility for another prophet in the future, as there seems to be in Judaism and Christianity? There is not. Posts: 66 \| Registered: Sunday, May 28 2006 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Tuesday, May 30 2006 07:38 Profile Homepage #164 quote: Originally written by Ford Prefect: But the main disagreement of mentioned religions is worshipping God's "messiah". For Judaists he hasn't yet come, for christians Christ is a synonym to messiah, and for Muslims it was Mahomet. Judaists deny both. Christians deny one. Muslims do not deny any, but worship the last one. Not only is Muhammed not a messiah for Muslims, but Muslims absolutely do not worship him. They worship God, and God alone. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
ef Guardian Member # 2476	written Tuesday, May 30 2006 07:41 Profile #165 quote: Out of interest, does "last" in this context mean "last ever" or "most recent"? Is there any possibility for another prophet in the future, as there seems to be in Judaism and Christianity? The twelfth Imam may not be a prophet by definition, but as he is said to return to save the world when it has descended into chaos, he certainly can be seen as a messianic figure. -------------------- Polaris Rache's A3 Site reformatted 2/3 done Rache's A3 Site, original version Posts: 1828 \| Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Meeshka Shock Trooper Member # 6908	written Tuesday, May 30 2006 20:46 Profile #166 quote: Originally written by Kelandon: Not only is Muhammed not a messiah for Muslims That was already explained by me. FYT. Mohammed OR Muhammad. Muhammed is a common name. quote: *...but Muslims absolutely do not* worship him. They worship God, and God alone.** Like you sir used to say, it is lack of my personal vocabulary. I think I wanted to say something similar to "listen to the words of" instead of worshipping. My hope was for that it is form that counts, not the concrete content of my phrase. Edit: On a second thought I searched (yahooed) for meanings of the 12th Imam. Firstly, Mohammed is called a holy prophet. That sound much more like messiah, if from Aramaic it means the anointed one. Stupid UBB doesn't show the transcriptional symbols. :( Secondly, here is rather compact information about the twelth Imam and his attitude to Jesus, Allah and some more interesting info in form of FAQ :) . Anyone is welcome to read. Now I know, that in Islam variant Jesus is a follower of the 12th prophet Imam Mahdi, still, he is called a messiah, but on the other point he is also called a prophet. [ Tuesday, May 30, 2006 21:21: Message edited by: Ford Prefect ] -------------------- 9 masks sing in a choir: Gnome Dwarf Slith Giant Troll Troglo Human Nephil Vahnatai "If the mask under mask to SE of mask to the left of mask and to the right of me is the mask below the mask to the right of mask to the right of mask below me is the same, then who am I?" radix: +2 nicothodes: +1 salmon:+1 Posts: 203 \| Registered: Tuesday, March 14 2006 08:00
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Wednesday, May 31 2006 04:40 Profile Homepage #167 Dude. If we are using words to communicate, what do you expect us to go on, other than what words you use? "Worship" and "listen to the words of" are miles apart. Mohammed is not a messiah. Messiah has a very specific meaning. Throw whatever adjectives you want in front of prophet, it won't make him a messiah. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
moonear Infiltrator Member # 5410	written Wednesday, May 31 2006 05:05 Profile #168 quote: My hope was for that it is form that counts, not the concrete content of my phrase. What, style over substance? Read any of Slarty sparring with me to learn that this is not acceptable. -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 \| Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
Meeshka Shock Trooper Member # 6908	written Wednesday, May 31 2006 09:52 Profile #169 quote: Originally written by Come On Pilgrim: Track 4: Dude. If we are using words to communicate, what do you expect us to go on, other than what words you use? "Worship" and "listen to the words of" are miles apart. Is it now more understandable and acceptable, after I changed "worship" to "listen to"? If it does, than take my apologize for making a mistake at first. I don't think that shoult be inspected so scrupulously. Or should it? And next time I promise to place some idiotic smile after a bit of sarcasm, like I said about form that counts. quote: Mohammed is not a messiah. Messiah has a very specific meaning. Throw whatever adjectives you want in front of prophet, it won't make him a messiah. Written down for wisdom. Although the meaning of the word is anyone who is expected to deliver a holy word of God. Since there was only one such person for Christians it became a name personal. So let us consider it was my mistake. quote: Read any of Slarty sparring with me to learn that this is not acceptable I hope you won't be insulted if I refuse? I got your point, hope you'll get mine. Otherwise see what I said before in this post. ;) P.S. The phrase in its sarcastic meaning "it is the form that counts" can be a trademark of M.Straczynski and his B5 [ Wednesday, May 31, 2006 09:57: Message edited by: Ford Prefect ] -------------------- 9 masks sing in a choir: Gnome Dwarf Slith Giant Troll Troglo Human Nephil Vahnatai "If the mask under mask to SE of mask to the left of mask and to the right of me is the mask below the mask to the right of mask to the right of mask below me is the same, then who am I?" radix: +2 nicothodes: +1 salmon:+1 Posts: 203 \| Registered: Tuesday, March 14 2006 08:00
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Wednesday, May 31 2006 10:33 Profile Homepage #170 Sorry. I completely missed the sarcasm. With someone I know, I'd probably have caught it, but noobs say some dumb poop around here. :P is very useful punctuation, indeed. And: The meaning of "messiah" as it is used in English today is specifically an anticipated saviour. The original meaning thousands of years ago in Hebrew was broader, but today it is not just anyone with a holy or divine message. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Student of Trinity Electric Sheep One Member # 3431	written Wednesday, May 31 2006 12:26 Profile #171 I believe that Muhammed being "the seal of the prophets" means that there can be no more prophets in Islam. But among the sayings attributed to Muhammed outside the Quran are prophecies of a messiah-like figure, the Mahdi ("guided"), who is to fill the Earth with peace and justice before the day of judgement. [ Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:27: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ] -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 \| Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Ash Lael E Equals MC What!!!! Member # 5491	written Wednesday, May 31 2006 14:30 Profile Homepage #172 The ignorance of some people in this topic is outright frightening. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 \| Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Meeshka Shock Trooper Member # 6908	written Wednesday, May 31 2006 18:26 Profile #173 quote: Originally written by Ash Lael: The ignorance of some people in this topic is outright frightening. The ignorance is always frightening. Shall I take this one on my personal account? :( Slarty, thanks for ranking my n00bness :) [ Wednesday, May 31, 2006 18:27: Message edited by: Ford Prefect ] -------------------- 9 masks sing in a choir: Gnome Dwarf Slith Giant Troll Troglo Human Nephil Vahnatai "If the mask under mask to SE of mask to the left of mask and to the right of me is the mask below the mask to the right of mask to the right of mask below me is the same, then who am I?" radix: +2 nicothodes: +1 salmon:+1 Posts: 203 \| Registered: Tuesday, March 14 2006 08:00
moonear Infiltrator Member # 5410	written Thursday, June 1 2006 04:38 Profile #174 quote: quote: ------------------------------------------------- Read any of Slarty sparring with me to learn that this is not acceptable ------------------------------------------------- I hope you won't be insulted if I refuse? I got your point, hope you'll get mine. Otherwise see what I said before in this post. Read any material betw Slarty and me to learn that I also refuse to learn. :) [ Thursday, June 01, 2006 04:40: Message edited by: Germany Wins ] -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 \| Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00