Religion, Homosexuality, the Usual
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 05:05
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quote:Mmh. Saved from what? Eternal damnation? A God who threatens me with that isn't worth a dime. Sorry. I'm not sure I'd like His company, nor will I feel comfortable in His realm. A God who judges will be judged. But then I don't think that such a God exists. It doesn't make sense. Healing is always a process of integration, not of splitting. A God who would ask me not to integrate but to split parts of myself is very certainly no healer. And if He is not even that, what can He teach me? [ Wednesday, July 07, 2004 05:08: Message edited by: ef ] -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4537
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 06:13
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quote:I'm deeply sorry. I had hoped to ignore this topic, but my curiosity demands that I ask this... Um, what exactly is physically flawed about them again? -------------------- Digital Neko - more nekojin per capita than you can beat senseless! Now featuring all-new subdomain! Posts: 147 | Registered: Sunday, June 13 2004 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 06:25
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quote:Let me get this straight, Creator - has your religion actually come to make you think that being autistic makes you less of a person than anyone else in the world? I personally find that view, coupled with your views on homosexuality, far far more offensive than Alec or Djur comparing you to a Nazi. -------------------- KazeArctica: "Imagine...wangs everywhere...and tentacles. Nothing but wangs and tentacles! And no pants!" Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3073
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 10:19
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Whyte Shadow, hermaphrodites (this is the correct spelling by the way) have an anomalous condition in which both male and female reproductive organs and secondary sexual characteristics are present in the same individual. [ Wednesday, July 07, 2004 10:22: Message edited by: Xan Kreigor ] -------------------- I am the way into the doleful city I am the way into eternal grief, I am the way to a foresaken race. Justice it was that moved my great creator; Divine omnipotence created me, And highest wisdom joined with primal love. Before me nothing but eternal things Were made, and I shall last eternally Abandon all hope, all you who enter. Posts: 383 | Registered: Friday, June 6 2003 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 10:59
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Overwhelming - your words: "Let's clarify this again: I'm not judging anyone. I'm just saying what I think is right. Not because I want to criticize gay people, but because I want to let everyone know what I think is right, so that they can walk the right path and be saved. ... Believe me, I wish homosexuals could be saved (I mean, the ones that are truly and inate homosexuals). Just as many other sinners." You want people to know what you think is "right," so that they can walk the "right path." It sounds to me as though you believe they're on the wrong path, ergo you've JUDGED them - especially when you equate them with "other sinners." And of course I judge you. People judge one another all the time. Any time you classify anyone or anything, you are judging them. What I reckon Jesus was getting at, however, is that people should keep to themselves and not be self-righteous, because NO ONE except for God rightly knows EXACTLY what is right or wrong, so NO ONE has authority over another. Absent God's active hand in the world - and given current world circumstances (Sudan, Iraq, Northern Korea, etc.), I think it's fair to say God's hand is absent - we are left to fend for ourselves and figure it out on our own, and in such a circumstance I can't agree more with a policy of keeping our respective noses in our own business and out of others'. I have a difficult time buying any interpretation born-again folk spin from the Bible, because the document is too old and has been reinterpreted too many times to fit so perfectly and conveniently into the context currently used. The Bible, for example, has been used to justify the slaughter of Jews, both during the Inquisition and WWII. Christianity also sanctioned the Crusades. All of these events have been widely condemned by Christian religious authorities. Has the Bible changed since then? Not really. So why should fundamentalists' interpretations be correct now? Not to mention the fact that I just don't subscribe to the "Law" or Jesus as the Son of God anymore, so your particular conviction has no impact on me, except where enough of you have managed to force it into civil law, which is unfortunate. I find that most of you have no knowledge of the historical events surrounding the birth of Christianity in the Mediterranean world. I hate waving my degree around, but I didn't learn Ancient Greek and Latin, translate 3/4 of the Gospels, and spend 3/4 of my college credits pursuing a degree in Classical history and language to be refuted by a born-again fellow who's been spoon-fed a bigotted interpretation. Homosexual relationships existed and were accepted in ancient culture. There's a wide swath of literature on this topic. The centurion-shield bearer example is standard fare. [ Wednesday, July 07, 2004 11:19: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ] Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 11:43
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The Bible even contains one; I'd point to the example of David's comrade (whose name escapes me at present) whose 'love was greater than any woman's'. In modern English this would make sense if there were no gaiety there, but not in the original Greek or Hebrew at all. -------------------- They want to have a war to keep their factories They want to have a war to keep us on our knees They want to have a war to stop us buying Japanese They want to have a war to stop industrial disease They're pointing out the enemy to keep you deaf and blind They want to suck your energy, incarcerate your mind Give you Rule Brittania, gassy beer, page three Two weeks in Hispania and sunday striptease Meanwhile, the first Jesus says, "I'll cure it soon Abolish Monday mornings and Friday afternoons" The other one's out on hunger strike, he's dying by degrees How come Jesus gets industrial disease? Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 12:07
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Morgan, autism can fairly safely be said to be a flaw. It doesn't mean that the individual is less of a person, but I doubt you'd disagree that in a perfect world there would be no autism. Don't put words in his mouth. -------------------- "I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass" Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 3320
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 12:16
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That would be David and Jonathan. I got chewed out for mentioning that. -------------------- (Looks around in the Study) Colonel Mustard: "Just checking." Mrs. Peacock: "Everything all right?" Colonel Mustard: "Yep. Two corpses. Everything's fine." "Keep your wits about you, the game is afoot!!" - Sherlock Holmes Posts: 935 | Registered: Friday, August 8 2003 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 13:11
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quote:But what is a perfect world? One without conflicts and challenges? A lot of you, myself included, could learn from my mentally retarded sister, from her openness, emotional warmth, her caring, sensitivity and joy. I have a long path before me, if I want to match her perfection, handicapped though she may be. -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 13:20
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quote:Actually, kleptomaniacs DO have to steal. They can't help it. Sometimes they're not even aware they're doing it. But that's neither here nor there; I concede the point. Anyone can practice abstinence. quote:We should love God, yes. Should we give Him mindless obedience? I think not. Think about how you love your parents and how much you listen or listened to them. There's more to love than following orders, and if God is a drill sergeant then perhaps it's time we threw ourselves on the devil's mercy. If the apostles saw that others were doing wrong, they were judging. They may have been using God's rubric, or Christ's, but they were the ones playing judge. ?Alorael, who will go fishing through the Old Testament for references. He has to admit that he may be citing Talmud, Midrash, or other not entirely kosher (oh ho, a pun!) sources, but they are at least as legitimate as Bible interpretation and they've withstood the test of time. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 13:22
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I would actually say, on further reflection, that people had very little concept of sexuality as recently as Shakespeare's day; the concept of sodomy as a social evil did not exist until at the earliest the 17th century, corresponding to Lutheran protestantism as a solid religious movement rather than a string of loosely related cults. Shakespeare wrote sonnets to a male lover, James I (the English monarch by whose bible most anglophonic fundies swear) was well-known for keeping the romantic company of men (or was it James II? damnedable English monarchs), and there's substantial historical evidence to suggest that men as historically profound as Richard the Lionhearted and Saladin were involved in the love that dare not speak its name. The concept of modern homosexuality would be absurd to these people. Of course, so would the concept of modern heterosexuality -- what, you want the woman to enjoy herself? You want a relationship with a female not based exclusively on sex or procreation? Absurd. The modern concept of homosexuality as a prime evil is a product of religious tolerance; something as harsh and disciplinarian as modern religion needs enemies. Since there aren't enough Hitlers and Stalins to go around -- and God forbid that we actually worry about genuinely evil people before dogmatically repugnant ones -- and lynching the Jews has gone out of style, the gays are the new target. Overwhelming: Your argument holds water well. But does the entire 'looking at a woman with lust in your heart' point Jesus brought up mean nothing to you? Intent to sin is as bad as having done it, and the stain of sin covers us all. If you wear cloth of two strands, you've committed an abomination against God by Leviticus. If you eat shellfish or pork, you've committed an abomination against God by Leviticus. If you refuse to marry your widowed sister-in-law and inseminate her with your child, you've committed an abomination against God by Leviticus. I could go on. The point Jesus labored to make was that sinlessness is impossible, and any sin is an irreparable taint. Homosexuals are, for whatever reason, wired differently, and I am not convinced that brainwashing them is acceptable in this day and age. Forcing them to live and behave as heterosexuals -- 'back into the closet' or such -- would be as basically wrong as forcing heterosexuals to live as gay men and women. This is a point that I made before, with Creator. He, unfortunately, chose to address Djur on an exclusive basis and completely cut off everything I said. A fine way to avoid answering difficult assertions, to be sure... -------------------- They want to have a war to keep their factories They want to have a war to keep us on our knees They want to have a war to stop us buying Japanese They want to have a war to stop industrial disease They're pointing out the enemy to keep you deaf and blind They want to suck your energy, incarcerate your mind Give you Rule Brittania, gassy beer, page three Two weeks in Hispania and sunday striptease Meanwhile, the first Jesus says, "I'll cure it soon Abolish Monday mornings and Friday afternoons" The other one's out on hunger strike, he's dying by degrees How come Jesus gets industrial disease? Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4445
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 17:47
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I'm a noob, so maybe I shouldn't be posting here, but I think I'll put my two cents in. I believe, according to my religion, that homosexuality is wrong, but I think there are many worse things you could do, and if you are basically a good guy/girl, you'll be all right, afterlife-wise. I also would like to point out the existence of brother/sisterhoods of Christian, chaste gays who do not live a lie by pretending to be straight but do not engage in homosexual activity. Just throwing that out there. And I think God frowns on sex for pleasure in all its incarnations, and gay sex lacks even the pretense of procreation, but, again, not a fire-and-brimstone kind of frowning here. EDIT 2: There was a filter on my end. Have since expunged that particular difficulty by means of some serious down-and-dirty registry messing-with. [ Thursday, July 08, 2004 07:20: Message edited by: Prophet_of_Doom ] Posts: 293 | Registered: Saturday, May 29 2004 07:00 |
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BoE Posse
Member # 112
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 18:44
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I really should have seen this coming - way too many points and questions to respond to effectively. I'll limit myself to Thuryl's question, since he directed it specifically to me and it's a darn good one. Hopefully, I'll answer other points at the same time. It does indeed become difficult to seperate morality from religion for me, but I'll do the best I can. First of all, I believe there is a perfect, ideal way for the world to work and for people to relate to each other. I know this sounds a lot like what I was saying before, but allow me to explain further. I'm not saying "This is the ideal way for things to be, because this the way God Says, so do it or burn in hell!" I'm saying "This is the ideal way for things to be... because it works best." Of course, I believe that God intended for things to be this way and his plan is perfect, and that he wants the best for us, etc, but I hope the distinction is clear. It's not "You should Do This, because God Says!", it's "Doing This brings us closer to this ideal." As you can see, my religion and worldview are inextricably interwoven. I'm going to hit 'pause' right there, because that's about as far as I can go talking about some vague, insubstantial "ideal". For those who are interested to know what my image of a perfect world is: Marriage would obviously be exclusively between one man and one woman. Any difficulties they had they would work through together, they would help each other and build each other up, and they would form a partnership greater than the sum of its parts (if you'll pardon the cliche). Men would be able to have close friendships with each other. While, as everyone here knows, I'm firmly against homosexuality, there is a kind of companionship and, for lack of a better word, love that can exist between men that is a very good thing. In our society, anything beyond having a beer with a mate tends to get branded as homosexuality (not that there's anything wrong with that...), so we're largely unable to relate to other guys on more than a superficial level without becoming involved in the homosexual lifestyle. Maybe a craving for this kind of intimacy is what draws some people to homosexuality. I dunno. As an example, I'd point out David and Jonathan. These guys cared for each other and looked out for each other - but they certainly weren't gay. Yet this kind of relationship gets claimed by homosexuals as 'theirs'. Or another example, Frodo and Sam in Lord of the Rings. Tolkein was a devout, traditional Catholic - he'd hardly make his heroes gay. The relationship between them is strong and pure and completely non-sexual, yet I've lost count of the number of gay jokes I've heard made about them. I think heterosexual relationships like these are a very good thing, but are pretty much unknown these days because of homosexuality that goes along with them. Hmm... that last one was pretty long. Oh well, never mind. Where was I? Oh yes, ideal world. Young men would be encouraged to respect women rather than simply try to use them for a bit of sexual gratification. I doubt many would argue with this point, and we do hear a fair bit about how we should treat women, but young men (like, well, me) are getting a completely different message through our eyes. We see Beyonce and Britney baring their bodies for us on TV every weekend, teasing and arousing us. Every newsagents we walk past has a dozen prominently displayed magazines featuring scantily or not-at-all-clad women on the cover. There's as much internet porn as you could possibly want only a mouse-click away, and we get in-boxes choked with invitations to check them out. We're being trained to see women as sex objects. So, when we see the classmate with the loose shirt neck, why not 'accidentally' knock her pencil onto the floor? If we get a girl to go out with us, how interested are we really in her personality? I'd venture that the vast majority of guys would be more interested in trying to get a hand under her bra. And of course, this doesn't send a good message to the girls. The one who put out are popular, while the ones who don't get dumped. How rare is it for a girl to sleep with her boyfriend, not because she wants to, but because she's afraid he'll break up with her if she doesn't? No girl should ever feel she has to trade her body to feel loved. As men, we should be protecting and caring for the women in our lives, not trying to exploit them. I think I'll stop there. While I could go on for ages, you should by now have a fair idea of what I consider ideal. If you really want more insight into the traditional Christian view of morality and suchlike (can't imagine why - I've probably bored everyone to sleep by now), I'd recommend Focus on the Family. I'm quite a fan of Dr. James Dobson, and I agree strongly with most of his points of view. Only he's been doing this sort of thing for decades, so he's much better at it than me! Anyhow, my problem with homosexuality is that it's a perversion of things that are naturally good. I could argue that it's commonly associated with various psychological problems (suicide, most child molesters are homosexual, etc), and you might argue back that this is simply because of the pressure and stigma society places on them, or that my claims are ridiculous and have no backing, and we'd go back and forth and not get anywhere, so I'll leave that one alone. I suppose the ultimate question is, what's wrong with a homosexual couple, in love, faithful to each other for their entire lives (rather than the wildly promiscious (sp?) lifestyles that many gays have)? Why are they less right than a heterosexual couple in the same situation? My answer is simply pretty much what I've saying right through this ridiculously over-extended post. It isn't the way our bodies and minds were intended to be, and it isn't the best way for relationships to be. That said, it's not THAT bad (in the above hypothetical case, anyway) - I'd probably consider pornography to be worse, and it's certainly not as bad as something like abortion, which really gets my blood boiling... but that's a whole other massive can of worms. Generally, I'd guess homosexuality is a symptom of other problems - but, again, I hardly feel qualified to argue the issue at all. I don't even know any gays (don't think so, anyway), and I certainly don't have any inclinations that way myself. There are plenty of people who know the issue much better than I do. I've just been trying to present the traditional Christian viewpoint here, more so others can understand where we're coming from than to convince anyone (which we all know is never going to happen). I don't really think I expressed any of that very well, but I've spent enough time on this one post. If you're unclear on any points, let me know and I'll do my best to answer. EDIT: Oops, didn't mean to quote Thuryl's post. [ Thursday, July 08, 2004 00:23: Message edited by: The Creator ] -------------------- Rate my scenarios! Areni Revenge To Live in Fear Deadly Goblins Ugantan Nightmare Isle of Boredom Posts: 1423 | Registered: Sunday, October 7 2001 07:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 19:16
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Prophet_of_doom, there is no filter whatsoever on 'sex'. -------------------- They want to have a war to keep their factories They want to have a war to keep us on our knees They want to have a war to stop us buying Japanese They want to have a war to stop industrial disease They're pointing out the enemy to keep you deaf and blind They want to suck your energy, incarcerate your mind Give you Rule Brittania, gassy beer, page three Two weeks in Hispania and sunday striptease Meanwhile, the first Jesus says, "I'll cure it soon Abolish Monday mornings and Friday afternoons" The other one's out on hunger strike, he's dying by degrees How come Jesus gets industrial disease? Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 19:41
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Thank you, Creator. That's pretty much the answer I've heard from other Christians who share your views. We all have ideals, in the sense that we wish the world to be arranged in a certain way. Our ideals, of course, differ -- it's almost a cliche that most utopias seem unpleasant to most people. If you were a politician and I were either a psychologist or an ethicist, I'd spend more time addressing the details of what you've said, but you're not and I'm neither, so I think it's best if we agree to disagree. You seem like a basically nice person, and in my opinion, civility and generosity are almost always of more practical importance than the principles that motivate them. Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 21:57
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Creator, although I disagree with you about as much as a person can disagree on this issue, I thank you for taking the time to express your opinion clearly. A few points at no one in particular: homosexual intercourse is evident in nature. I've read about species of monkeys (bonobos, or something like that) for whom sexual interaction is an indication of social ties, and they don't even flinch before engaging in same-sex intercourse. Various other animals do it, too, although I don't remember specific examples. I'm sure a biologist could say more; I lean towards physics, personally. Gah, to keep this from being a huge, pedantic post, I'll try to keep this brief. As a substitute for an entire paragraph: AAAAAAUUUGH CONVERTING HOMOSEXUALS TO BEING HETEROSEXUALS NO THIS IDEA IS BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD!!!!!!! Back to regular post: there is a BIG difference between a person being gay and a person having a gay experience. As an extreme example, same-sex rape is most often committed by heterosexuals (and I say that based on statistics from a high school Health class, so don't quote me on that). Same-sex child molestation has nothing to do with being gay, and as far as I know is committed by heterosexuals as well as homosexuals, so the two things shouldn't be thought of in the same light at all. Something that occurred to me while reading the Creator's post: people seem so deeply outraged by sex and sexuality, and go to such incredible extremes to try to eliminate it from TV and movies, but VIOLENCE -- which seems like a much bigger problem -- gets relatively little attention. If I were king of the world, I'd put more effort into solving problems related to violent crime, drugs, and poverty, rather than what people do in their bedrooms. But then, I was the one who brought this up. Huh. I just re-read the Creator's post again. I'm not quite sure I follow (probably because I'm coming from a completely different point of view) If you have the patience to bear with stupid questions, could you connect the dots for someone as like me who can't quite do it himself? Namely: how do you know that homosexuality doesn't work well, isn't ideal, isn't how we're supposed to be? And, err, from an older post, this: "I don't hate homosexuals for being evil perversions or anything like that - generally speaking, I feel sorry for them. I'd hate to live like that." It sounds peculiar to me. In general, from what I've heard, homosexual people are not unhappy being homosexual any more than, say, men are unhappy being men or women are unhappy being women. There. Enough babble from me. -------------------- Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM v1.1!) Rate my scenarios! Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue High Level Party Maker Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, July 7 2004 23:31
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I'm not touching the bonobo thing; I've heard about it before, but it's not my area of expertise and I don't really have much to add to what you said. Just to make you feel like less of a pedant by comparison, though, bonobos are technically apes, not monkeys.  quote:You make a good point, and while I can't speak on his behalf, I don't think it's one that Creator would disagree with. Even he seems to think that homosexuals are, by and large, only harming themselves. quote:I think, but again cannot be sure, that that's where the religion part comes in. After all, a religion is first and foremost a set of claims about facts, with the two most important of those putative facts almost invariably being "God knows and wants what's best for us" and "This book contains what God has to say to us". quote:Actually, I've heard that studies generally find that homosexuals self-report being less happy with their lives than heterosexuals. Then again, it's hard to be happy when a significant portion of the population sees you as evil, disgusting or both. Pity probably isn't helpful either, though. As for the relation of homosexuality to genetics, my own opinion falls into the "we're-all-a-little-bisexual" camp, with some people turning out more or less homosexual than others due to a combination of genetic and environmental factors. There are, of course, a multitude of possible direct or indirect reasons why alleles associated with homosexuality could be an advantage. One could, perhaps, postulate the explanation that in order to understand what the opposite sex finds attractive (and therefore make oneself attractive to them), it's necessary to be a little attracted to the same things oneself. A little far-fetched, perhaps, but it would explain both the male fascination with lesbians and the famously good fashion sense of male homosexuals. Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4162
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written Thursday, July 8 2004 00:47
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quote:do you think these lower levels of well being are exclusively related to social conditions ? Posts: 36 | Registered: Sunday, March 28 2004 08:00 |
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BoE Posse
Member # 112
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written Thursday, July 8 2004 00:57
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Man, it's nice to have a discussion without all the anger.  It's late and I've already written one massive post today, so I'll ask you to wait till tomorrow for a detailed response. And maybe I'll ask a few tricky questions of my own. -------------------- Rate my scenarios! Areni Revenge To Live in Fear Deadly Goblins Ugantan Nightmare Isle of Boredom Posts: 1423 | Registered: Sunday, October 7 2001 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Thursday, July 8 2004 05:24
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The lower levels of well-being are almost certainly associated with social pressures. I refer you to the famous experiment conducted in 1968 by Jane Elliot in which she separated her class of 8 year olds by eye color, told the brown-eyed children that they were superior, and extended extra priveledges to them. The brown-eyed children quickly assumed a sense of superiority and disdained the blue-eyed children. Check it out at this link: http://www.horizonmag.com/4/jane-elliott.asp Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4599
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written Thursday, July 8 2004 05:46
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*A creator who should not judge? Being gay is part of genetics? Seperation? God will be judged?We are all a little bi?* The world has strayed far from God, which mearly means we are closer to the endtimes. I am sorry to all I offend, but being, "that way" is wrong. I am not telling you what to do, but regardless, you will be judged for your actions in the end, right or wrong. -------------------- The only use of fancy titles is to draw attention away from one's lack of power.- Erika Redmark *Erika fan currently in exile for ignorance* Posts: 135 | Registered: Tuesday, June 22 2004 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Thursday, July 8 2004 05:50
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To back up Kelandon's point - there are certain species of monkeys and apes (most prominently, gorillas) who are ridiculously promiscuous. Paedophilia, incest, homosexuality - you name it, these species don't have a problem with it. BtI - I never said autism would exist in a perfect world. However, an imperfect world is a very differrent thing to a fallen world - the implication I got from that statement was that Creator considers autistic people fallen (though I'm sure that Creator didn't mean it that way. I'd be curious to know what he did mean.). -------------------- KazeArctica: "Imagine...wangs everywhere...and tentacles. Nothing but wangs and tentacles! And no pants!" Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4599
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written Thursday, July 8 2004 06:04
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After reading more of this topic, I am digusted! How dare we, the created, judge the creator. Humans are flawed, as they were meant to be. So how could a flawed being create what is wrong and what is not? God is perfection, and what is flawed can not understand what is not flawed. God is god, we will never fully understand him, that is why God will seem like a silly or stupid thing to you. -------------------- The only use of fancy titles is to draw attention away from one's lack of power.- Erika Redmark *Erika fan currently in exile for ignorance* Posts: 135 | Registered: Tuesday, June 22 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 4682
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written Thursday, July 8 2004 06:22
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I'm a Pagan and paganism just accepts people for who they are. I used to be Jewish, but when my family and I went to the synagouge, I didn't pay attention, and I've never read the Torah.  -------------------- Refreshes your breath while you scream. Posts: 834 | Registered: Thursday, July 8 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 4682
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written Thursday, July 8 2004 06:26
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Oh, forgot to mention, one of the main things in paganism is that you are never allowed to hurt anyone, whether the abuse is physical or verbal. This rule also applies to all forms of the Goddess. -------------------- Refreshes your breath while you scream. Posts: 834 | Registered: Thursday, July 8 2004 07:00 |