Profile for Emperor Tullegolar
| Field | Value |
|---|---|
| Displayed name | Emperor Tullegolar |
| Member number | 7420 |
| Title | Shaper |
| Postcount | 2156 |
| Homepage | http://www.dmeb.net/speb/foryourears/take.mp3 |
| Registered | Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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| Wealth. in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Monday, October 30 2006 21:18
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quote:This is fantastic. Good for them. Happiness is the most important thing. If they really don't do it for the money, I would be more than happy to not give it to them. quote:Sure, whatever. What exactly do you expect me to do about this? Should we have paid Einstein and those others for the future developments that would have been built upon their discoveries? Should we pay them retroactively? I don't understand what I am supposed to say to this. You had the same comments, *i. My question is, how exactly are we supposed to compensate these scientists for something that we won't even know will be useful until decades later? What does this have to do with the economy anyway? As for government spending on research. Most of the time, including in your satellite situation, the government is researching these things in the name of national security. They would have done the same thing in my system, as national security is the primary duty of the government. MBA vs. PhD: The answer to why an MBA makes more than a PhD is simple, yet I must admit that even I am unsatisfied with this element of society. The answer is this: charisma is valued above intelligence in modern society. This is something I can not change. It is not my fault, it is a simple fact. Sorry scientists, perhaps there is some weight to the 'nerd' stereotype after all. I would like very much for scientists to have their rightful place in society, but it is not going to happen unless society itself reorganizes its priorities. Dintiradan is drawing villain inspiration from me? Do you guys hate me that much? I'm not evil! I'm just trying to bring order and prosperity to the world! -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Monday, October 30 2006 13:32
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*i: I have never changed my definitions. I defined the strong as having both intelligence and charisma. Scientists can have all the intelligence in the world, yet it will only ever get them half way at the most. If this Schrodinger and Heisenberg were so great, how come they didn't sell their ideas better? A great idea is worthless if you can't apply it to the world we live in. Those that can apply it must understand it (intelligence) and also understand what people want (charisma) and thus they will make more money in the end. There should be no reason why someone can't partake in both areas of science, basic and applied. Kelandon: Your giving luck a bigger role than it deserves. Are you saying that people like Bill Gates, Rockefeller and the like all lucked out? No, they saw an opportunity (intelligence), knew how to exploit it (charisma), and did (ambition). Anyone can succeed. Only the really great know how. Ephesos: Answers do vary, as they do with any theory. Honestly, do you have an answer that works every time? I'd like to hear it. Yes, class stratification is the way to go. It promotes a greater work ethic, if the government was giving out hand outs, what reason do people have to work hard or even keep a job? As for satisfaction, if the teachers are satisfied with their pay (which is what we were talking about), then there is nothing to argue about here. Finally, compassion is for the weak. Where did compassion ever get anyone? It hurts not only the compassionate, but also the compassionees, as they will not work as hard if given the things they need. Alorael: I dispute your claim that an MBA is more valuable than a PhD. It depends completely on what you do with said degree. Someone with an MBA could end up as a bean counter making mere tens of thousands a year, while someone with a PhD could get a decent job, write books, invent, anything. The same argument goes for teachers I suppose. Amount of education, while important, still comes second to overall skill. In fact, there are plenty of people with no education at all that manage to find success at the highest levels. Salmon: Failure is as much a possibility for me as it is for anyone. However, I believe I have the qualities it takes, and as long as I have fun along the way it matter little where I find myself in the end. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
| Wealth. in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Monday, October 30 2006 03:41
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Kelandon/Ephesos: I not so much saying that luck is a quality of the strong. Either the strong or weak can be lucky. Luck is, rather, a random variable that exists in any form of economy that one can argue for or against. I was merely acknowledging it's role. My definitions remain the same, what makes you say they change? My concept of justice? I suppose it’s simply people getting what they deserve. Economically, justice is when a person gets the occupation and pay grade they deserve. This is important not only for the individual, but for all of society. When someone does not get a job suited to them (either a strong person being given an insignificant one or a weak person being given great power) society suffers as a whole. When people get the jobs they deserve, society benefits. In practice people don’t always get what they deserve, but this justice assured that society will pay whenever this happens. That is economic justice. Is that what you were asking for? Teachers: As I said before, secondary school teachers do not need much education, thus they get paid little. If they are really good at what they do, they should get more education and become a college professor. Staying a high school teacher shows lack of ambition, a quality of the weak. They may really enjoy what they do, and that is great, but it still shows complacence. Complacence should not be rewarded. Science: I have always had the impression that all scientists were paid well, given the amount of education they are required to have, is this not true? Anyway, I can see why fundamental researchers would get paid less. Major developments are rare, and to make such discoveries requires little incite into the needs of humanity. Remember, understanding humans (charisma) is an important quality of the strong, and it is a quality not necessary to discover important things. Alorael: I blame the education system. Education is something that should be nationalized, as I said earlier. The way it is run in the United States (regulation by state) is the worst system ever. But you thought I said the only role of the government is to protect the people? Yes, and it should also protect them from ignorance. It should protect their right to an equal opportunity. It should not give them free money (like you guys think) but it should give them education, but it should assure they all get off to the same start. What happens after that start is no longer the government’s responsibility. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Sunday, October 29 2006 18:30
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I mostly visit when I'm at work. I like to take a couple seconds break in between every few sales calls, so I do visit often to keep myself sane (or maybe insane, since the coldness of working in an office allows for neither). But since I'm at work, my visits are very brief, which is probably why I sometimes say things that are incomplete or unclear. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Sunday, October 29 2006 17:28
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Lawful Evil Human Fighter. I won't take up space posting the whole thing. Strange, I think I picked 'run away from fight' at least twice in the quiz. Not sure how I ended up a fighter. Bard was a close second. The lawful evil part doesn't surprise me so much. And I really am a human, despite what some people think. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Sunday, October 29 2006 17:17
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Teachers: I suppose secondary school may have failed me. But hey, I seem to be doing fine in college despite my poor educational history. I blame my inherent intelligence. Scientists: I must have more information, then. What is the difference between all the different kinds of research you guys are mentioning? And how much do scientists in each one of those field of research get paid? Give me something to work with here. Poor=Weak?: I never said this. If someone is born into poor conditions, but they are both intelligent and charismatic (strong) they will be noticed and given an opportunity for advancement. If those in power are too stupid to notice them (weak), which happens a lot when the weak inherit power (money) then they will suffer for not having a fine addition to their organization. Luck does factor into everything, I said this before. Sociology is a soft science. SoT: Historically, revolutions against the strong are always failures. The French Revolution led to an Empire, the Russian Revolution led to dictatorship, even the American Revolution did not improve the positions of the weak, as every single founding father was an aristocrat. The weak may outnumber the strong, but the strong will always be on top because the weak too stupid to organize. That’s why they are the weak. Edit: Used a character this board doesn't like. [ Sunday, October 29, 2006 17:19: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ] -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 23:50
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Alorael: There are only so many upper level jobs to go around. Even if every single person in the world was skilled enough to do them (never going to happen) they simply would not all get the jobs they wanted. Most will end up on the bottom, no matter how skilled they are. The skilled of the skilled will remain on the top. Your right about compensation. Those on the bottom are under compensated, but rightly so as they are less skilled than those that makes the big bucks. We pay fast food employees less than they can live on, yet they still take the jobs. Why? quote:You see, we think the same thing! Only I beleive in cutting out the middle man: government. When they can no longer serve the wealthy fast food, that is when their pay is raised. And yes, it does happen. I said people should make money according to their skill, not according to the value of their job. Teachers really don't need that much education, nor does it need to be good education. In my experience, the only really smart high school teachers I ever met taught high school for fun and also had a real job at some point. Sorry if that offends anyone, but I had some really stupid high school teachers. Scientists, basic research is lame, so they get paid a lame amount of money. If they are truly skilled and they end up discovering something useful, like the cure for a disease, their wealth will reflect this. Doctors, very skilled, and they get paid well. Executives, for every genius executive that get millions of dollars a years, their are thousands of failures that didn’t make it so far. If these few can succeed in such a cutthroat work environment, they deserve to be so wealthy. Edit: Salmon: Insurance companies would exist with or without government regulations. They might be smaller, there might be less of them, but they would still exist. Halfway through your post, I stopped understanding you. [ Saturday, October 28, 2006 23:52: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ] -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 22:25
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Thuryl: Sure, criminals can always just not get caught. However, this gives the government the right to increase 'protection tax' and enact harsher law enforcement. It all evens out in the end. quote:First question: why would you ask that? Did I imply somehow that this would happen? It wouldn't. Second question: Can you give me an example of a highly skilled job that doesn't pay well? As for graduated income taxes, yes, this is the kind I would support. If the government exists to protect people, then the people that have the most to protect should pay the most taxes. Garrison: I would love for all people to be equal. The problem is that people don't like to be equal. I always keep this fact in mind when thinking about these things. Lenar: A shout out against anarchy is always appreciated. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 21:48
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They don't? Then how does it work? -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 18:12
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An interesting argument, one I have thought on myself many times. The conclusion I came to is this. If the people really want to murder to get ahead, they are within their rights to overthrow the government and put in place a new one where murder is legal. The reason this doesn't happen is because most people, strong and weak, agree that killing is bad. Such feeling are weak, but they are also bred into humans at birth, since this moral viewpoint is probably based in a fear of death, something few people don’t have. These few people that would prefer a world where they can kill and be killed are more than welcome to destroy government if they want. But in the end, they can't, because its supporters are greater in number and consist of the strong and weak alike. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 17:53
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I'm sorry, is there a point your trying to make? Once again, yes. He who says organization, says hierarchy. Nietzsche I believe? I think we can all agree that senseless killing is bad. The best way to get rid of killing is to have some kind of organization to stop it: government. Hierarchy becomes inevitable, and I am suggesting that since it is inevitable, then said hierarchy should be an economic one. So yes, your observation is correct. People should be able to impose their will on one another, but should not be able to kill each other. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 17:32
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How is my view inconsistent? I'm not an anarchist. Government is nessesary to maintain order. No system of economy will work unless the variables of murder and theft are taken out of the picture. These are things no one can protect themselves from. Even the strongest person who ever lived was not immune to being killed or stolen from. Edit: I think I said this before as well. It was in some kind of Geneforge thread. Someone asked what happens when the supreme leader of my government is assasinated, and I responded that such is a possibility in any form of government. When it comes to death, suddenly everyone becomes equal, even the strong and the weak. [ Saturday, October 28, 2006 17:35: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ] -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 16:56
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For your examples, the answer is obvious. Those companies hurt people, it could be argued they were guilty of murder. Such crimes should be taken to court and punished, that is the government's duty. quote:In real life, it's as simply as being conservative when it comes to the economy, such as lowering taxes and cutting government spending, and liberal when it comes to social issues, such as supporting civil liberties. There is no reason why these policies wouldn't work in practice. They actually have. Edit: Oh, now I see why I'm repeating myself so much. This topic is now being discussed in two different threads. Is this normal? [ Saturday, October 28, 2006 17:00: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ] -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 16:28
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quote:I hate repeating myself. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 16:26
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quote:I like it better when you insult people with witty remarks. This one was pretty lame. Do better. I'm not denying my contribution to the BS. However, it should be noted that there are two types of BS. There is the political/economic/social ranting BS I engage in, and then there is pointless-jibber-jabber-verging-on-spam BS, which is what you seem to prefer, Salmon. Meh, to each his own. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 16:12
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I may have been here only two months, but I have heard at least two lifetimes worth of BS since my arrival. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 14:32
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quote:This is probably the most insightful thing I've heard from anyone here in a long time. This statement not only gets my Emperor's Seal of Approval™, but I am obligated to admit... I have erred. Artists do indeed have their place in society. You win on that one. Don't get too excited though, for that was a small point in a much larger argument. My other, more important points still stand. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 14:04
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quote:That's just it, these people don't have it. They may have the skill, but it is worthless without the ambition. If you really can't see the abstract and need a definition to understand, I'll try my best. A strong person has to have intelligence and charisma. They must also have ambition, because without it their strengths amount to nothing. My definition is as simple as that. Luck plays into it as well, which is why sociology is a soft science. Success is define as the ability to exert ones will over others. This tends to lead to wealth, but more importantly power, which also tends to lead to wealth. Capitalism favors those that are intelligent, charismatic, and ambitious. At the risk of getting into a eugenics argument, I must ask, are these people not the best humanity has to offer and thus deserving of success in the capitalist system? Alorael: What percent are we talking here? In nations where the poor and elderly start to outnumber the workers (which is more and more the case in the United States) that percentage gets higher and higher. Where do you draw the line? -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 13:45
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Just a word of advice: don't drink the well water. Seriously, I could't resist. Ethnic jokes are not usually my style, and I probably won't make more unless you ask for it. The way I see it, you were asking for that one by taking the discussion in that direction. I mean really, you know what meant in the first place, you just wanted to have a couple of extra posts for the day. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 11:08
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Well, seeing as the CoC was written by the jews in their attempts to control the media, I don't really understand how I'm warping the words original meaning in the first place. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
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written Saturday, October 28 2006 10:56
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Yes, the vast majority of the world's wealth is in the hands a very few. What does that tell you? Why do these people have so much money? Why do the less well-off allow this to happen? There have beens all kinds of revolutions to bring down those on top but you know what always ends up happening? The money goes right back to the hands of a few, and not nessesarily the same ones. You could take all the wealth in the world and distribute it evenly to every single person and you know what, it will all be right back in the hands of a few, probably within a mere couple of years. Why? Because some people have it, some don't. Some have intelligence, leadership, ambition, I really can't quantify these things or give one definition, but can we at least agree that there are strong out there and there are weak? And that the former is more likely to succeed in capitalism than the latter? -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
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written Friday, October 27 2006 23:44
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Well, they're here, so I take advantage. If these games never existed, well, I wouldn't be able to miss them, would I? Probably would have been a more productive person in life as well. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
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written Friday, October 27 2006 23:32
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Gilded Age: A poor example of why libertarianism doesn't work. A major theme of this time period was the government scandals involving the contracting of large scale construction projects, such as railroads. High ranking officials in Grant’s administration were involved in such a scandal, and Cheney is probably engaging in such practices as we speak. I think this qualifies as government interference, and thus cannot be counted against capitalism. ef: Yes, I do believe that talent and ability should be the determiner for wealth. This may be idealistic but hey, so are all economic views. I believe people should all have equal opportunity, another reason I think education should be nationalized rather than privatized. Those that are good at what they do and devoted to doing it should be rewarded, and in capitalism they usually are. Those that are weak (in this case meaning weak as in short of ability, not poor) should fall to the bottom, thus becoming one and the same with the poor after all. I don't understand why you would want to give these people a helping hand when they will never be anything more than a burden on society anyway, no matter how much you give them. Artists: This is a useless profession, and a horrible waste of creative potential. Such great minds would be better of as inventors. They would make more money, and they would benefit society at the same time. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
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written Friday, October 27 2006 11:01
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Favorite Ice Cream flavor? I had pumpkin flavored once. I wish I could remember where I got it. I hope to taste it again one day. Length of Major Sleep? Fourteen hours is pretty average for me on weekends. Favorite Arcade Game? Mortal Kombat III, I always play as Shang'Tsun, I always win. Favorite movie made from a cartoon? I honestly can't think of one. Favorite place to nap? Math class. Favorite print cartoon? Get Fuzzy. Do you eat ice-cream during a cold weather? It may be cold outside, but it is hot in here! Favorite hour of the DAY to sleep? When I'm lucky enough to not have work, I like to sleep right when I get home from school, 1:00. Favorite Age? Meaning what was the year of your life that you enjoyed the most. 18, senior year of High School, I owned that school. Edit: Forgot to remove quotes. [ Friday, October 27, 2006 11:02: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ] -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Friday, October 27 2006 10:48
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quote:Touché. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |