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Kissing a girl in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #116
quote:
Originally written by Khoth:

Sorry for lowering the tone of the discussion, but...
quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

Even for those of us religious types who aren't gay, there's plenty of sexual temptation of all flavours to go around.
Maybe I should become religious. I could do with some more sexual temptation.

And to add to the general consensus, thanks for sharing that, Alex.

Well, if you get off on the forbidden, I definitely recommend joining a puritan religion or two. :D

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"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
Politics and Beliefs in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #87
~takes the Zen approach~

Everybody's wrong! About everything! Including me, regarding this statement!

~cackles insanely and stumbles away~

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"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
Happy Birthday Eagle! in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #4
I'd say happy birthday, but I'm scared of angering the locals... :(

So instead, I'll just comment on the freaky cat-pic!

Wtf! :eek:

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"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
First Kiss in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #26
quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

quote:
Originally written by chicho:

why a lot of people here never kissed, how old are you, at least im just 15.i hope you kiss soon and that you not be too old or some bad people will consider you as losers and freaks
I'm 20, and have never kissed because I have yet to meet anyone I have strong feelings for. If everything goes to plan, I'll go through my life never having kissed more than one girl.

Good luck with that. And that's not sarcasm, I mean it.

The only advice I can give is don't be in a rush.

I've always looked at relationships as golf; low score is win.

Well, "always" is a strong word, but at least for as long as I've given the issue serious thought. ;)

Actually, I can also give another bit of advice... "don't settle".

Follow your heart. Take your time. It's worth it.

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"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
Kissing a girl in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #114
quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

I couldn’t agree more, and I marvel at the very same thing. I came here a month ago just to kick around and check out the BoA scenarios, but I am quite startled and pleased to discover the richness and diversity of dialog going on here. You people are amazing, you hear? Amazing. It scares me how much brilliance and heart I see in this one unlikely little place we call the Spiderweb. I dearly love the diversity of thought, attitude, belief, humor, and culture we get with an international gathering in a place like this.
Hehehe, yup... I just joined a while ago to ask a few questions about BoA... I had no idea this would come of it!

But I've been a part of quite a few communities on the web throughout the year, and I must say, I'm quite happy with how easy it was to just dive right in, here, especially considering the topics at hand.

quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

It’s a fantastic time to be alive.
Far more than most of us realize, I think. Humanity is at crossroads, and we have front-row seats.

Good or bad, it doesn't matter... the fact remains that we live in immensely interesting times.

And when I look at all the things that are coming together in this particular day and age, I can't help but marvel, it seems so surreal. Almost as though this is when we're meant to be alive. And as much as our human world pains me much as it is, I can't quite conceive of a more meaningful time period to be part of.

Granted, I don't know what the future holds, but compared to any other time period in recorded human history (and some are very interesting indeed!), this one seems head-and-shoulders above.

I read something yesterday that very nearly floored me (unfortunately, I can't find it again, or I would quote it... it was in an article from Scientific American).

Something about how light from the big bang was just now reaching us. They didn't elaborate, as this wasn't the main topic of the article (I read two yesterday... one about black holes, and the other about a potential pre-big-bang, as hypothesised through string theory). I wish I did, though... it was just this tiny mention, and I'm not entirely sure what they meant, but it got me thinking.

Present estimates have our solar system at about 4.5 billion years old, the galaxy near 11 billion years, and the universe at 13.7.

What did they mean about the light just now reaching us? Our ability to see the early universe—from my understanding—relies mostly on the strength of telescopes (stronger ones able to see farther, therefore capturing light which hasn't reached us yet). I'm not clear on the implications... if the big bang happened 13.7 billion years ago, and it's just reaching us now... where does that leave us?

This page says that by some calculations, our universe is probably 156+ billion light-years wide... that's pretty damn big.

So if (arguably a big if) all these things are true, what are the chances that we happen to be at the exact spot that the light from the beginning of the universe would reach us as we'd start looking?

Granted, cosmic time is not on the same scale as our own (humans have been around for a nano-fraction of the cosmic existence of all that surrounds us), but even looking at it in a relative sense, we seem to be at a "right place at the right time".

Even such vagueness put aside (as I said, I'm still not sure about the implications of what I've just ranted about), even thinking locally, it seems that this generation is in a very special and particular "in-between" position...

Then again, maybe it just looks like that cuz now is now. Humans do have a tendency of seeing things as more important than they really are when they're directly involved. ;)

quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

Oh, was that you? ;)
Indeed, t'was I! :D

quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

I think there are some great gender issues and discussion going on in this thread right now, yes? Despite my intermittent torrents of contribution, I’m not in a hurry. There will be more to come as inspiration strikes here or in new threads. I saw a flurry of interesting discussions on some of these kinds of topics from earlier this year which I am sorry now I missed. Another good one I love to dig into, by the way is the etiology of two simple words which are huge to currently established doctrines of Christianity: “hell” and “eternity/eternal.” I got some really good background on those, turned my thinking on its head years ago.
Yes, definitely. And true, no need to rush anything. We don't want to overload, or anything. ;)

I'm staying away from the old threads on purpose. Otherwise, I'd be far too tempted to revive them myself, and I hardly feel that's my place.

If someone else was to do so, though... ;)

Oooo... I'd love to tackle hell and eternity/eternal with you sometime. Sounds like fun!

quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

Hmm, and I can’t really quite call myself “Christian” at this point actually. I have a rich heritage of experiences through that lens, but I think there’s scarcely an organized church who would have me if they knew the dangerous perspectives I have come to embrace concerning the nature of God and so on. There is much I love and embrace from that lens, just as there is much I can no longer embrace. There is scarcely a thing in this world that is not mixture, and our job is to find the babies in all the bathwater. Organized religion is a colossal mess, yet has held within its confines forms of many great truths and has done much to bless the world, as well as curse it. I think it’s all going somewhere. Nothing is for naught.
Well, more Christian than me. You still come from that background, to a degree. Neither of my parents are religious, and I had to find my spirituality on my own. A large chunk of the people in my social circle are atheists, unfortunately. Makes for boring conversations. :P

Organized religions are definitely a mess right now. It seems that a lot of the evils in the world today can be attributed to them. Even if not directly, at least by association, because of the religious polarization and friction we're seeing all over the globe these days.

Which is a pity. I appreciate science, and I find it very fascinating (I mentioned Scientific American a bit higher. Yes, I got myself an online subscription, and I very much love it). But on the overall, I find it lacking in spiritual matters, which only religion and philosophy seems to be tackling.

quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

I have deeply personal reasons I have no doubt of a great Heart and Mind behind all things existent, but I really don’t have any agenda or proof to push on anyone. In fact, I don’t believe there can be. It’s not for the head. It’s for the spirit known by experience, rather than words. I think I must often sound preachy when I get going on spiritual matters, but it’s passion really. I just love talking about the ideas of things, Who/What I think (or “know”) this “God” is, and especially things which are beautiful and hopeful ultimately in a world so jaded and contentious and judgemental overall.
"In fact, I don’t believe there can be." ~nods~

I think that the most important things in this world are beyond empirical proof. For now, at least. But that shouldn't stop people from seeking answers. We might not always find the answers we seek, but we can often find all sorts of other interesting things on the way.

I know what you mean about preachy, I have the same problem. :(

But I think that's unavoidable, to a degree. If you speak passionately about something which you hold dear to your heart, if someone disagrees, there's often a good chance they'll take it as preaching. This applies as much to scientific things as it does to spiritual matters. In the end, the best we can do is keep an open mind and remember the imperfections of language.

Hope is something severely lacking in this world, IMHO. Even among the faithful, I would say... considering all the friction between the different Faiths we see all over the world these days.

People seem to be so caught up in the past, so intent on proving their side right (which is, arguably, impossible... faith, in the end, being a matter of faith). Instead of fighting and telling each other how wrong we are, what would happen if we focused on the common threads?

I think that if humanity was to focus on its similarities instead of its differences, it would find that we all have far more in common than we might think...

quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

If I can say nothing else, it’s that I live with the simple and joyful conviction that God and the truth of our reality (despite what any of us sees or does not) is far better and more hopeful and more purposeful that we mostly dare to entertain or hope.
I couldn't agree more. I know two languages, and I can't think of any words in either to describe how utterly majestic "it" all is.

It's easy to forget, sometimes, when bad things happen... but whenever I manage to remind myself... ~just shakes his head~

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"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
Everyone's a Comedian in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #26
~LMAO!~

Brilliant!

...

[Edit:]

Okay, I know this is long, and many of you have probably seen it, but since we're going for puns, I simply couldn't resist. I nearly die every time I read it.

...

(We take you now to the Oval Office.)

George: Condi! Nice to see you. What's happening?

Condi: Sir, I have the report here about the new leader of China.

George: Great. Lay it on me.

Condi: Hu is the new leader of China.

George: That's what I want to know.

Condi: That's what I'm telling you.

George: That's what I'm asking you. Who is the new leader of China?

Condi: Yes.

George: I mean the fellow's name.

Condi: Hu.

George: The guy in China.

Condi: Hu.

George: The new leader of China.

Condi: Hu.

George: The Chinaman!

Condi: Hu is leading China.

George: Now whaddya' asking me for?

Condi: I'm telling you Hu is leading China.

George: Well, I'm asking you. Who is leading China?

Condi: That's the man's name.

George: That's who's name?

Condi: Yes.

George: Will you or will you not tell me the name of the new leader of
China?

Condi: Yes, sir.

George: Yassir? Yassir Arafat is in China? I thought he was in the
Middle East.

Condi: That's correct.

George: Then who is in China?

Condi: Yes, sir.

George: Yassir is in China?

Condi: No, sir.

George: Then who is?

Condi: Yes, sir.

George: Yassir?

Condi: No, sir.

George: Look, Condi. I need to know the name of the new leader of China. Get me the Secretary General of the U.N. on the phone.

Condi: Kofi?

George: No, thanks.

Condi: You want Kofi?

George: No.

Condi: You don't want Kofi.

George: No. But now that you mention it, I could use a glass of milk. And then get me the U.N.

Condi: Yes, sir.

George: Not Yassir! The guy at the U.N.

Condi: Kofi?

George: Milk! Will you please make the call?

Condi: And call who?

George: Who is the guy at the U.N?

Condi: Hu is the guy in China.

George: Will you stay out of China?!

Condi: Yes, sir.

George: And stay out of the Middle East! Just get me the guy at the U.N.

Condi: Kofi.

George: All right! With cream and two sugars. Now get on the phone.

(Condi picks up the phone.)

Condi: Rice, here.

George: Rice? Good idea. And a couple of egg rolls, too. Maybe we
should send some to the guy in China. And the Middle East. Can you
get Chinese food in the Middle East?

[ Sunday, October 09, 2005 13:38: Message edited by: Muji ]

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"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
First Kiss in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #24
I don't want to remember... :(

But that's mostly because of everything associated with it, what happened after.

The kiss itself, in a nutshell...

I was visiting my uncle's, and my best friend (at the time, anyways) had come along (yes, my best friend was a girl).

Sleeping arrangements were somewhat limited, so we were sharing the fold-out couch in the living room.

I don't quite remember what led to it, but we had just been lying there, talking. When all of a sudden, she rolled over and gave me a kiss (can't remember if there was tongue or not... if there was, it was just a bit). Took me completely by surprise (if I recall correctly, what we had been talking about wasn't anything hot or what one might think would lead to a kiss).

By itself, it was quite cute and romantic. But that was the beginning of a long drawn-out relationship which left me heart-broken, and from which I never fully recovered.

I don't remember the exact age, but late teens... I'm 26 now.

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"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
Everyone's a Comedian in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #24
Must... stop... crying... with... laughter... *gasps*

...

Chicho, good translation. ;)

Reminds me of this one:

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.

Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.

Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.

Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.

It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done

...

And Synergy, those are my favorite kind. The lamer, the better... as long as the pun is good.

The kind that makes you unsure if you should groan, then laugh, or laugh, then groan... so instead you try doing both at the same time.

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
Kissing a girl in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #112
quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

Gee, Muji-meister, that was nice of you to say, and a very fine post you made too. I was feeling pretty sheepish about the river of thoughts the subject drew out of me, being so steeped in Christian-context spiritual symbology and such esoterica. But I'm going to put it back in place for the moment.
Don't mention it.

It was a very long post (and I know long posts!), but a good read and—under the circumstances—fully appropriate, I think.

The Christian-context spiritual symbology, IMO, was one of the things that gave it so much weight.

I'm not Christian, nor have I ever been, so I could have never made those points. But I found it very interesting to read, and quite informative. It made a lot of sense to me.

I'm glad you decided to put it back. :D

quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

I actually hate editing in the sense of deleting anything that was real and in the moment. A number of us here are obviously passionate and intensive writers. It can be hard to end a thought which has such potential depth to explore.
It can be hard, but we do what we can. And nobody's forced to read anything they don't want to.

I don't know about anybody else, but personally, I find these discussions to be among the most rewarding aspects of being on the internet.

After all, isn't that what the net is all about, in its purest form? The sharing of thoughts and ideas.

And I find a delicious irony in the fact that such meaningful discussions can come about from such a simple and banal common thread as shareware games. ;)

I've always marveled at that. The way people—sometimes literally on the other side of the planet—come together, linked by some mundane, material and arguably meaningless (at least in the big picture) topic, then sometimes end up dealing with some core existencial aspects. I find that beautiful.

quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

I did mention somewhere 'round here recently that I think gender issues are some of the most critical ones which we are facing today. A lot of the current key religious and social issues I see as gender issues at heart, and it's all about relationships ultimately.
Oh, that was you? Yes, I remember that comment. And I had replied how that could make an interesting discussion in itself.

If you want to make a starting post, I'll follow along. ;)

quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

quote:
Originally written by Muji:

If homosexuality is seen as wrong because procreation doesn't enter the picture, then what is to be thought of a heterosexual couple who simply chooses not to have children? What makes them any different than a homosexual couple?
Well, you know, the Catholic Church believes all forms of contraception are wrong; even the rhythm method is wrong if you're attempting to use it to avoid having children at all as opposed to just controlling how many children you have and when. It also considers infertility to be sufficient reason for a marriage to be annulled.

Not saying that I agree with them, just pointing out that their position seems internally consistent on this one.

I knew about the no-contraceptives bit, but not about the infertility aspect... :eek:

Still, that's Catholicism. Not all Christian sects look at it the same way (in regards to contraception), but homosexuality, in general, is viewed as "bad".

I must admit I at least respect internal consistency, but are all those things seen as equal? That's not a rhetorical question, I'm actually asking (and not just Thuryl... anyone who has an answer).

I could be wrong, but it would seem to me that, by and large, homosexuality is viewed as a far greater sin than simply wearing a condom.

And does anybody have more info about the whole infertility thing? I'd be curious to know more about how the Church sees that, how they explain it in a religious way (is it punishment? A test? What?), etc.

[ Sunday, October 09, 2005 13:16: Message edited by: Muji ]

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"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
Sleep in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #18
I answered sleeping 12 hours, going to bed at 4am.

That's what I've been doing lately.

But I don't really have a schedule, so I can't give a proper answer.

For a good chunk of the last few years, I averaged 13-14 hours or so, and would go to sleep between 8am and 11am.

These days, when I'm not working, I seem to have settled into the "schedule" I voted.

When I'm working, I get 3 to 6 hours of sleep a night. As for -when- I sleep, it depends, because I work 12 hour shifts and I'm on call, so it varies a lot.

quote:
Originally written by Mournin' Salmon:

I think that polls are evil, and should be stopped.
Maybe we should make a poll, asking people if they think we should stop making polls? :D

quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Okay, who said that they usually go to sleep at 10 o'clock in the morning?
Around 10am is one of my favorite times to go to sleep.

quote:
Originally written by Diarog Lethuta:

Wait, wait, wait.... A question about #1: Who gets 24 hours of sleep? That is unheard of. Nobody I know sleeps that much. Well, execpt for me...

-- Diarog Lethuta

Sleeping 24 hours is one of my life's goals.

I've managed 22-23 hours because I was sick, once.

The most I've managed without being sick was 20-21 hours.

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"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
Everyone's a Comedian in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #21
quote:
Originally written by Bender Bending Rodriguez:

What did the Elephant say to the Mushroom?
You're a fun guy.

Strangely, this is the one that made me laugh the most.

I don't understand why it has to be an elephant, but I guess that makes it funnier because it doesn't make sense.

...

Most jokes I can think of would violate the CoC, so... yeah... not posting.

But!

Still got a few:

I was looking for #9, cuz I couldn't remember the exact wording (I still think it was different when I first saw it), but, yeah... here you go, 10 puns:

* 1. Two vultures board an airplane, each carrying two dead raccoons. The stewardess looks at them and says, "I'm sorry, gentlemen, only only one carrion allowed per passenger."
* 2. Two fish swim into a concrete wall. The one turns to the other and says, "Dam! ... "
* 3. Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly, so they lit a fire in the craft. Unsurprisingly it sank, proving once again that you can't have your kayak and heat it too.
* 4. Two hydrogen atoms meet. One says, "I've lost my electron." The other says, "Are you sure?" The first replies "Yes, I'm positive."
* 5. Did you hear about the Buddhist who refused Novocain during a root canal? He wanted to transcend dental medication.
* 6. A group of chess enthusiasts checked into a hotel and were standing in the lobby discussing their recent tournament victories. After about an hour, the manager came out of the office and asked them to disperse. 'But why?" they asked, as they moved off. "Because", he said, "I can't stand chess nuts boasting in an open foyer."
* 7. A woman has twins and gives them up for adoption One of them goes to a family in Egypt and is named "Ahmal." The other goes to a family in Spain; they name him "Juan." Years later, Juan sends a picture of himself to his birth mother. Upon receiving the picture, she tells her husband that she wishes she also had a picture of Ahmal. Her husband responds, "They're twins! If you've seen Juan, you've seen Ahmal."
* 8. These friars were behind on their belfry payments, so they opened up a small florist shop to raise funds. Since everyone liked to buy flowers from the men of God, a rival florist across town thought the competition was unfair. He asked the good fathers to close down, but they would not. He went back and begged the friars to close. They ignored him. So, the rival florist hired Hugh MacTaggart, the roughest and most vicious thug in town to "persuade" them to close. Hugh beat up the friars and trashed their store, saying he'd be back if they didn't close up shop. Terrified, they did so, thereby proving that Hugh, and only Hugh, can prevent florist friars.
* 9. Mahatma Gandhi, as you know, walked barefoot most of the time, which produced an impressive set of calluses on his feet. He also ate very little, which made him rather frail and with his odd diet, he suffered from bad breath. This made him ...(Oh, man, this is so bad, it's good)... A super calloused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis.
* 10. And finally, there was the person who sent ten different puns to his friends, with the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. No pun in ten did.

...

Here's my favorite joke of all times. It's so lame, and so zen-like in its subtle simplicity:

"A man walks into a bar... and says ouch."

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
Kissing a girl in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #109
I'm not sure how "big" a post I should make this... especially considering Synergy edited and cut his (which was a very long and very good post, btw. I saw it before the edit).

I guess I'll try to keep it as short and simple as possible (which doesn't mean much, in my case).

I just want to say, though. If you want to discuss further about anything, please don't hesitate to PM me. :)

...

Alex, again, thank you for your post.

Not only for the trust in your fellow board members, but for giving, I believe, giving anyone who reads it something to seriously think about.

It may be intensely personal, but by the same token, it's well-written and—I believe—touches upon certain core principles of the human condition. With the heart and honesty you put into it, I can't help but see your post as a gift to us.

Enough with that... on to my ramblings.

...

First of all, if you haven't read Synergy's full reply, I strongly suggest you ask him for it. He said many things I would have liked to say, and better than I could have said them.

Second of all, I'd like to state for the record that I believe that our natural state is bisexuality.

Personally, I guess I would consider myself bi-curious. There's no doubt in my mind that I prefer women a lot more, and I very much look forward to starting my own family.

It's entirely possible that I'll go through my entire life without having a homosexual encounter, and I'm fine with that. But conversely, if it happens, it happens. And I'm fine with that as well.

I think Synergy did an excellent job dealing with the religious aspect, so I'll leave that alone. Not coming from a religious background, I wouldn't be able to do it justice like he did. I haven't read the Bible yet (though it's at the top of my "must read" list).

There's just one aspect I'd like to focus on, and that's love. In the end, I think that's the most important thing.

I simply can't see how anything done with genuine love can be wrong. And by the same token, I consider heterosexual sex devoid of love as much of a "sin" as homosexual sex devoid of love.

From a "natural" standpoint, heterosexuality makes sense within the context of reproduction. But relationships between humans aren't limited only to reproduction.

Sex is something intimate to be shared between people, and IMHO, approached from a position of love, trust and integrity, it can be a beautiful thing, no matter the genders involved. It's a unity shared by people who care about each other.

I'd just like to point out that homosexuality and bisexuality is prevalent in nature. Sex isn't always about reproduction, it's also a powerful sociological act.

I don't believe that any act or state of being is inherently sinful; what makes the difference is the approach taken.

I'll try to finish this off... I could ramble on an on and on... especially if I took the time to explain where I'm coming from (which would be relevant, but extensive). So again I remind you, if you'd like me to continue, I'd be happy to do so in PM.

I'll just finish off with this thought:

If homosexuality is seen as wrong because procreation doesn't enter the picture, then what is to be thought of a heterosexual couple who simply chooses not to have children? What makes them any different than a homosexual couple?

A homosexual couple might even want children. And, in some places, be able to adopt.

By the same token, what are we to think of a man and/or a woman who is infertile? It's not their fault. It's not their choice.

If we see homosexuality as being unnatural and sinful simply because it goes against the "natural order of procreation", then must we not also damn any heterosexual victim of infertility as being inherently unnatural and sinful?

In conclusion, just stick to the path you're on... it seems to be a good one, if not an easy one.

Follow your heart. That's the best advice I can give anyone. If you're honest with yourself (which you seem to be) and listen hard enough, your heart can never lead you astray.

...

quote:
Originally written by Mournin' Salmon:

If/when you choose to enter into a monogamous relationship with a member of the opposite sex, and you have a pretty good feeling that it will be the one you die with, make damn sure you tell that person ALL the dark and hidden secrets of your life. That really goes with every relationship that will potentially reach permanency, but especially given the views of your religion, it could be disasterous on an emotional level if the two of you weren't on the same page.
Yes... and I think that's good advice for just about anyone.

I know that people tend to say that politics and religion should be left out of a relationship, especially at first, but personal experience has taught me that next time I enter any kind of relationship, those are two of the first things I'll bring up.

I guess this isn't for everyone, but for people who have strong beliefs one way or another, I think that it's important that those issues are addressed and made clear from the get-go.

One relationship in particular comes to mind... incredible compatibility on so many levels. And there were troublesome issues to deal with (about to get a divorce, but wasn't finalized yet, had a daughter from a previous relationship, etc.)... things that required serious considerations. But in the end, it was our religious differences that drove us apart. We had waited too long to deal with those and had already gone too deep. It hurt. A lot.

So kids, learn from my mistakes. ;)

quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

Alex, allow me to say, reading that post has given me a lot of respect for you. You've got guts, bro.

Don't think you're alone, either. Even for those of us religious types who aren't gay, there's plenty of sexual temptation of all flavours to go around.

Or being gay without being religious.

Depending on where you live, and your background, being gay—by itself—can be hard enough to deal with without dragging religion into the mix.

...

Much love and respect, Alex. :)

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
Lag in Blades of Avernum
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quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

Hm... wouldn't expect that from an iBook. I've got an 800Mhz G4 and BoA runs just fine...

Have you checked for potential viruses? A bit of a long shot since it's a Mac, but you never know.

Actually, I just remembered a similar problem my family had with an iMac (G4). Everything had suddenly slowed down incredibly, and we finally figured out that Virex had been constantly running exhaustive scans on our entire hard drive, and that was killing our RAM.

Haven't checked for viruses. I have a bootable Norton somewhere, but no clue where it is, so I can't.

I recently moved, so all my stuff's deep in boxes still... :mad:

I doubt it's a virus, though (never had one in my life), but it's still a possibility...

quote:
Originally written by spy.there:

Have you augmented the storage of the program?
I've looked into doing that, but I can't quite figure out how on OS X... :(

quote:
Originally written by Niemand:

I use a fairly new 1.33GHz Powerbook, and BoA still moves very slowly on occasion. For a while I believed that the game was slower when I had the Editor open at the same time, since that seemed to be when it did it the most, but lately it just hasn't. The trouble does seem to be very erratic. I have noticed by using Activity Monitor that BoA (and the BoA Editor) are very processor intensive, and just gobble up any clock cycles that aren't being otherwise used; if only 10% of the processor time is available BoA runs just fine with that, but if 90% is available, BoA takes it even if it doesn't really need it.
That's very weird!

I'll have to run Activity Monitor and see if it's doing that for me as well, would explain stuff.

Any idea what can be done about that?

quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

What scenarios are you playing? Death at Chapman's is notoriously laggy in one town because of a poor design decision related to AI scripting. You shouldn't be experiencing lag in most scenarios, though; if you are, that's unusual.
I'm playing ASR. Nothing weird.

quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

Are you using Virtual Memory? Seems to me that if you are, and your drive needs defragging or is nearly full, this could significantly slow things down.
To tell you the truth, I don't even know how to turn on virtual memory in OS X, or how to check if it's on. I checked the System Profiler, but it didn't say anything. If I do "About This Mac", though, the memory it says I have is my built-in... but I don't know if it would show virtual memory if it was turned on...

I have 1.55gb free of a 10gb HD. I threw away all I could recently (hoping it would help), but didn't do much difference.

quote:
Originally written by Thralni, emperor of Riverrod:

What system are you using? Mac OS X?
I know that question wasn't directed to me, but I'll answer anyways, for the record. ;)

OS X 10.2.8

quote:
Originally written by Omikron:

I think that these problems aren't the fault of the computer, but Blades of Avernum. (No offense, Jeff! :) ) Similar problems occur with almost any program; the problems you described occured on Macs with 800 and 1330 MHz processors, but mine's only 450 MHz, and the game still works like a dream on it. I think that, if you are using new systems like Tiger, the source of Blades of Avernum hasn't got any info about these new systems and therefore is optimized for a different one. (I use Panther, but will upgrade to Tiger when I upgrade to a Mac Mini.) Or if Blades of Avernum has a timer to fix the fps, it might not be fully prepared to the GHz monsters.

Of course, all this COULD be a lie.

Bah! :(

Any idea what I could do to help things run smoother?

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
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Okay, thanks. :)

I guess I'll just keep a save file just before I choose, and try both.

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
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quote:
Originally written by Archmage Alex:

Ignore the whole thing if you like.
No way.

That was an incredible post.

As much because of the courage of its honesty as for the depth and breadth of the subject matter.

I just woke up, but expect a proper reply later.

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"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
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quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

I make a promise, only to break it five minutes later...

If the law of gravity and the theory of evolution are not incompatible, is there any reason to teach them seperately?

But Gravity and Evolution don't deal with the same topic...

Evolution and Intelligent Design, on the other hand, go hand in hand. They both have to do with our origins, albeit at different stages. Gravity is just a physical law.

quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

Yeah, I've got to agree with Muji there. Creationism is bogus, but Evolution by Design could be interesting... as a theory. In practical terms, it sounds fairly ridiculous and impossible to prove.
Impossible to prove, for now.

But that's what I'm saying.

ID, as a science, is still too young.

But approached from a properly scientific angle... who knows what we'll discover in a year? A decade? A century?

And if/when that happens (if/when ID becomes a valid scientific theory), I think that could be extremely interesting.

"Evolutionary Design 101"... :D

...

I'll leave you all tonight with a lil' ranting tangent.

One theory I've heard (I don't think it's particularly widespread) is that life started on Earth from bacteria that landed here on a meteor. Which, in a way, would make us all aliens. :P

I like that.

Another theory I've heard (even more obscure) is that the meteor came from Mars.

It's immensely unlikely, but I like it anyways. I'm a huge fan of conspiracy theories, and utterly obsessed with Mars.

Some (very few) argue that, at one time, in the extremely distant past, Mars had been like Earth. A living world with an atmosphere.

Maybe we're Martians?

But going on a slight tangent from this, and continuing with the idea of ID/Evo, perhaps that meteor didn't land on Earth by accident.

...

Imagine: (crazy theory time)

Some alien civilization (our ancestors), somewhere far away (or perhaps not so far), a very long time ago... realized that something was gonna happen (cataclysm or somesuch... perhaps a large asteroid was going to hit their planet soon and vaporize them).

So they coded their knowledge into DNA... programmed themselves into bacteria, and shipped it off-world towards a planet they knew would—by the time it would be reached—be a prime spot to support life, thereby insuring the survival and continuation of their species in the long run.

It could be that their technology was not advanced enough to make the trip themselves, but that in bacterial form, on a cellular level, they knew it could reach.

Perhaps their technology was advanced enough that they could send something else...

Perhaps they calculated how long it might take us to evolve to a certain level of civilization and technology, and so they sent a slow-flying probe or something... on a billion year journey.

Maybe in a few years, we'll intercept it, and we'll find... a message from our great-great-great-(add a few zillion more greats)-grandfathers and grandmothers.

Or something like that.

~blinks~

I think I'm tired... ;) ~coughs~

I'm going to bed.

Otherwise I'm probably gonna start rambling about the Anunnaki... :rolleyes:

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
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~nods~

So there's really no point in teaching it as something separate. :P

Unless the purpose is to sneak Christian Creationism into the mix. ~shakes his head~

I'd love to go to school and hear about Evolution-by-Design, though. That would actually be worth taking a biology class for!

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
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I knew I had forgotten something...

quote:
Originally written by Rain Delay:

I don't know enough about economics to discuss the pros and cons of changing minimum wage. All I'll say is that everyone should be able to earn a living wage that supports decent life, not intolerable life.
Good point, and I think that's the key issue. It's not about how much minimum wage is, it's about what it'll get you.

I've stated how much I think it should be, but I forgot to mention why.

Canada's minimum wage supports... life. But I wouldn't exactly call it decent. If you work 40 hours/week at a minimum wage job, you can get by, but barely, and Montréal (from what I've heard, not sure how true it is) has one of the lowest costs of living in North America. So I can imagine that in all the other places, people are having that much more of a hard time if they're only making minimum wage.

Cost of living goes up all the time. But I can't even remember when the minimum wage went up. That doesn't work out too well.

quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

quote:
Originally written by Muji:

All this energy we spend on abortions vs. no abortions could much better be spent trying to make sure people don't end up in a situation where they'd want to get an abortion. No?

Agreed. But for those who do end up in that situation, abortions should be easily accessible, both geographically and economically. The idea of raising prices to restrict abortions would cause more harm than good: then you end up with more unwanted children being born into already-poor families. In fact, that's one of the reasons why I consider myself pro-choice: it's better for everyone (the mother, family, would-be-child, and society at large) if children are actually wanted by their parents.

Well, yes... I wasn't quite serious about raising the price. The rich wouldn't care and, arguably, it's the poor that need easy, safe access to it the most anyways.

I just meant that it's something that should be used as a last resort, and that our society—despite fully supporting it, and making it as available as possible—should foster a frame of mind where it wouldn't have to come to that too often.

quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

EDIT: Wow, this is moving quickly.
Isn't it, though? ;)

I should go to bed. But I don't want to miss anything. :(

I'm scared of what there'll be to read/reply to tomorrow! :eek:

Glad I'm not working until Sunday. ;)

quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Muji: I was trying to say that I don't care if the tax cuts for the lower-income earners stay. You're probably right; it's just not what I was talking about.
Oh! My bad. I had understood that you didn't want to give any to anyone.

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
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quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

If you mean that every person is unique and no one is really replaceable, I agree with you fully there.
I think that's what she meant. :)

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
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Dammit, every time I'm about to post a reply, I see someone else has replied, so I have to edit my post. :P

So it keep growing and growing... all that just so I don't double post! So don't complain it's too long. ;)

...

quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Names can be very important to some people.
Good point.

Still, such a fuss over semantics... :(

quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

quote:
Originally written by Muji:

By what stretch of the imagination can "Intelligent Design" not be considered religion? Even if you try to distance it from the Christian faith, the fact remains that its central paradigm is one of a sentient, willful, creating force. In other words, a god, if not the God.
I am so going to regret getting into this.

Intelligent Design is certainly not religion. It makes no claims about the supposed designer other than those that can be reasonably inferred from observing his/her/its/their creation - ID supports the idea that life was created by completely non-deistic aliens as well as it supports the idea that life was created by God.

ID is based on the idea that by observing something, we can reach conclusions about how it came to be. By observing materials of various colours spread across a piece of canvas, we are able to conclude that someone put them there. It's the same basic concept. A theory based on analysing data strikes me - a layman though I might be - as much more scientific than religious or philosophical.

That makes sense. I must admit, I hadn't considered the alien perspective.

Of course, that not how most people are looking at ID, but, well, I guess that's another story.

The main concern people have with ID is that it's the Religious Right's attempt at "sneaking" religion into schools. That ID is, despite its claims to vagueness, specifically about Christian Genesis. A concern I can understand, and share.

I'm all for theorizing about aliens, though.

But looking at it like that, ID and Evolution aren't mutually exclusive...

Consider this outlandish and exaggerated scenario, if you will:

Some alien race, for some reason unknown to us, decided to create us.

And so they planted the "seeds of life" on Earth. Using their highly advanced knowledge of evolutionary biology (among many other great skills), however they set things up, they made it so that life would grow and evolve on Earth.

So you get ID (the aliens "creating" us, jump-starting life on this planet) and Evolution (the subsequent growth of said life).

What's wrong with that? I personally quite like the idea.

I don't believe it, but I like it. It's a nice story.

Point is, we don't have the slightest clue of where (or why) we come from.

I'm not an atheist. I very very strong beliefs about the physical and spiritual nature of our universe. But I believe in evolution. It makes sense.

I'm all for a scientific inquiry into the theory of ID, but it doesn't seem to me that it's gone through enough scientific "tests" and research to be taught in schools as a direct competitor to evolution. I'm not saying it never will. I'll be glad to see the day where, in our schools, scientists and teachers are honest enough to say "Hey, you know what? We don't know. But we have a couple of theories, and here they are...".

As I mentioned before, I'm not a huge fan of science. Not that I don't believe in it, but I strongly dislike the cold and impersonal approach it leads to. As much as I wouldn't say science, by itself, fosters atheism, I do believe that our approach to science tends to lead many in that direction. Which I find sad (but hey, that's just me).

As I've mentioned before, Science, to me, is nothing more than the new world religion. It's a personal paradigm that's easy to succumb to. It's a world view. It's a Faith. My biggest beef with it, though, is that since it only deals with what it can touch or see, it completely ignores the spiritual world. I can't wait for the day that science reaches a level where it can go further than skin-deep.

But back to ID; as I said I've been telling myself to do for a while, I started doing a bit of research. I do emphasize a bit... I haven't gotten very far. But I did find a few things.

Here's something about the whole science vs. religion bit, and why a religiously-fuelled ID theory doesn't belong in science class:

quote:
From this page:
"Science is limited by its tools -- observable facts and testable hypothesis. Because religious beliefs are based on faith, and are not subject to scientific test and refutation, these beliefs should not be taught in the realm of natural sciences."
But when you say this: "ID supports the idea that life was created by completely non-deistic aliens as well as it supports the idea that life was created by God", well, Evolution doesn't necessarily preclude ID. Here's something else I found, this written in 2001.

quote:
From this page:
"This is where it gets hard. And I want to be as fair as I can to those who believe in intelligent design. I have friends who believe in intelligent design. Our next-door neighbors—very nice people—believe in intelligent design. If by “intelligent design,” its proponents only meant that some intelligent designer (whether it be God, space aliens, or a giant slug) is using evolution to accomplish some intelligent purpose (one in which we humans might be major players), we wouldn’t be here. This evolution-is-part-of-God’s-plan view is, essentially, the view of the Catholic Church, most Jews, and most mainline Protestant denominations. There is no necessary conflict between a belief in evolution and a belief that God is real and working in the world. The theory of evolution says nothing at all about the existence or non-existence of a benevolent, intelligent designer. Evolution doesn’t require an intelligent creator, but it doesn’t exclude the possibility either. The theory of evolution simply provides a powerful scientific explanation for the variety of life on earth. It is the core concept of biology. It is not a disproof of religion."
Within this context, ID doesn't need to be against Evolution.

The only time where Evolution and ID come to clash is when you take ID from a decidedly Christian perspective and take the Bible as empirical truth, as opposed to metaphor.

Again, a quote from that last page:

quote:
From this page:
"The problem today arises because the proponents of Intelligent Design are not content with the weak view that accepts evolution. Instead, they argue that the evidence suggests individual species were individually and intelligently designed. Humans and the great apes, for example, did not have a common ancestor some 6 million years ago. The fact that humans and chimps share over 98% of the same genetic material proves little. The “missing links”—the early hominids that keep inconveniently popping up in Africa—all must be new and separate species. It’s just a coincidence that the most mammal-like of all reptile fossils appear just before the most reptile-like of all mammal fossils. The fact that no tenured biology professor (as opposed to law professors, hydrologists, or even a handful of biochemists) at any of the top-ranked universities shares their conviction in the folly of evolution shows only how widespread the Darwinian conspiracy is."
This becomes Christian because that's what the Bible says, doesn't it? That God created man and all living creatures. Each one individually. Independently. Without this core Christian belief, why would anyone have a problem with Evolution? Even if they believed in Intelligent Design?

I read something else about all this, but I unfortunately can't find it to quote it right now. But to paraphrase, it basically said that the theory of evolution is one of the strongest scientific theories we have right now. That it's constantly being put to the test and proven right.

I'm all for ID, if it can reach that level of scientific solidity. In the end, it's the Christian bias of ID that's problematic.

I'll leave you with one word against ID: mosquitos!!

Unless our intelligent designers have a cruel sense of humor. ;)

And why would you regret getting into this? This is what this thread is for! This is fun! :D

quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

quote:
Originally written by Muji:

So if one state wants to be a bastion of purity and outlaw anything related to homosexuality, you'd support that?
No, I would oppose it. But the national government has never been in the business of regulating marriage; that's always been a state and local government thing. Read the legislature's powers enumerated in the Constitution — we'd need a constitutional amendment just to make it legal to pass a national law concerning gay marriage.

I didn't know that! About needing a constitutional amendment. Interesting.

Forgive me, I'm Canadian. ;)

quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

quote:
Originally written by Muji:

How would you help deal with poverty, though? Various subsidies? Wouldn't a tax cut for the poorest help out a lot?

And poor as they are, it's not like they'd make a big dent in the deficit anyways, would they?

Bush's tax cuts didn't much affect the poor anyway. They were mostly for the richest of the rich. I just want to roll back the tax cuts benefiting the people who have plenty of money already, because right now the government can't pay for all of its commitments (like, you know, roads and schools and stuff).

I'm well aware Bush's tax cuts were mostly for the rich. And I'm fully in favor of doing something to change that. But I'm just saying, the poor could actually use those tax cuts. Why not give it to them? If you removed them from the rich, you could give some to the poor and still have plenty of money left to help with the deficit. And you'd be raising the lower classes from the much while you're at it.

quote:
Originally written by Rain Delay:

...stuff...
I'm not sure what I should be saying here, but I feel I should say something; I agree fully.

There. I said something.

Those words could have been my own. Or close enough.

quote:
Originally written by Bender Bending Rodriguez:

Also, making abortion illegal will in no way stop abortion, it will simply stop safe abortion..
That's an excellent point! I had never thought of that!

~puts on his pro-choice marching costume~

It's too late to stop it. Banning it would just make things worse. :(

quote:
Originally written by Bender Bending Rodriguez:

(I won't say Christian because other religions condemn it too)
Yup. In some countries, you can get stoned to death for being gay.

And here we are, arguing about semantics! ~LoL~

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
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Fascinating...

So the only difference is names?

What's the big deal, then?

I don't get it... :eek:

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
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quote:
Originally written by Marlenny:

There will never be good enough newbies to replace our beloved oldies.
Also, am I the only one disturbed by Alex's last comment???. I agree with him, but should he be the one commenting it?

I never meant that I could replace anyone. Thus my saying that maybe I could help, as opposed to my saying that I could do it ("it", of course, being replacing the leaving oldies). :)

quote:
Originally written by Drew:

Oh, don't be so square, Marlenny! Even my wife and I have a deal where Johnny Depp is allowed to come between us, either way. Nothing wrong with a little man crush! :)
Back off!! Johnny's mine!! :mad: ~shakes fist~

I may not be a petite blonde, but I speak French! ;)

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
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quote:
Originally written by Eldibs:

3. Should abortion be legal?

No, except when the mother is in danger. It should also be legal in the case of rape as well. But it should also be illegal to refuse to sell birth control pills if you sell other types of pharmaceuticals. Prevention is better than abortion IMO.

I fully agree with that.

I'm all for abortion, but it shouldn't be a decision made lightly.

What if it cost a fortune or something? I dunno...

By no means am I advocating that people should see human life as cheap and/or easily disposable. Abortion should never be undertaken lightly.

Sadly, I can't help but feel as though many people think somewhere along the lines of "It doesn't matter too much if I'm pregnant, I'll just get an abortion".

It should, IMO, be a last resort. But I still feel it should be a viable option.

Far too many people aren't "worthy" of being parents, for lack of a better term. And I know this sounds bad, but I mean...

Parenthood is not something to be undertaken lightly there's no doubt about that. And it seems that a vast number of new parents (I don't want to say "majority", although it does seem that way to me) simply aren't ready.

All this energy we spend on abortions vs. no abortions could much better be spent trying to make sure people don't end up in a situation where they'd want to get an abortion. No?

Of course, putting a kid up for adoption is always an option, but there's already tons of children without parents waiting to be adopted. Imagine how many there would be without adoptions?

What about young teenage girls who did something stupid, or simply got unlucky? If our (by "our", I mean North American) society follows the Right in regards to abortion, I fully expect we'll be hearing a lot more about babies found in dumpsters in dark alleys.

But yes, I'm 200% behind you on prevention being better than abortion.

quote:
Originally written by Eldibs:

4. What do you think of the issue of gay marriage?

Gay marriage should be illegal. However, civil unions for gays should be allowed.

What's the difference, exactly? Is it simply the religious aspect?

If that's the case, what if it's not a Christian wedding?

Or, by the same logic, why should non-Christian weddings be legal?

quote:
Originally written by Eldibs:

5. Do you think Creationism and/or Intelligent Design is equal to Evolution?

They are equal, because none of them has been scientifically proven.

It's called the theory of evolution, not the law of evolution.

Nobody says evolution is the Absolute Truth. At least, nobody whose opinion on the subject matters much.

As such, it doesn't need proof in the absolute and empirical sense.

It is, on the other hand, a theory based on various scientifically-determined facts and observation. This can't be said about Creationism and Intelligent Design.

There's nothing wrong with teaching Creationism and/or Intelligent Design, but it has no place in a science class room. It's the domain of philosophy.

And I say this as a philosopher, I've never been overly fond of science. So don't think I'm bashing anything here.

quote:
Originally written by Eldibs:

6. Should Intelligent Design be taught in schools alongside evolution?

Yes, absolutely. If you are going to teach the unproven Evolution, you have to teach the unproven Intelligent Design and Creationism. All or none.

It's the "alongside" I have a problem with. As I said, this is something I've been wanting to do some research on (i.e. I don't have all my facts straight, so it's not like I'm claiming I know what's happening or anything), but from what I've heard, they want to teach Intelligent Design alongside evolution in science class.

I don't know what's being taught in American schools these days. I don't even know what's being taught in Canadian schools these days.

But when I was in high school, we learned about Evolution in science class and Creationism in religious studies. In neither case did someone say "This is the truth!". In both cases, the subjects were presented as theories, and beliefs held by some.

If this is what is meant by "alongside", then I don't have the slightest problem with it. But from my understanding of the situation, that's not what's meant by "alongside".

By what stretch of the imagination can "Intelligent Design" not be considered religion? Even if you try to distance it from the Christian faith, the fact remains that its central paradigm is one of a sentient, willful, creating force. In other words, a god, if not the God.

Seriously, I'm very much curious about this. I'm not just saying these things to infer that you're wrong, I'm honestly asking the question (being a student of religion), wanting to understand the situation better.

quote:
Originally written by Lord Nicodemus:

Oh I forgot; I live in the United States,...
Where do you live, and where are you from? I'm curious, your sig being in French...

quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

Damnit! I have nowhere near enough time for this topic, but there are so many things I want to say! :(
Looking forward to you having time... ;)

--------------------
"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
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quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

Man. Homosexuality, abortion, environmentalism, politics, Iraq, taxes AND evolution. Enough here to keep us arguing until the sky caves in. :P

I'm probably in the minority on every single issue.

Haha, indeed! :D

Huzzah for unending discussion. ;)

quote:
Originally written by Marlenny:

You have no idea what you just did Muji. DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT give incentives to Ben about his Bush supporting ideas.

Edit: When it comes to politics, it basically goes like this: Every Sw member vs Ben (and someone else, can't remember the name).

:eek:

In that case, Ben, I invite you to PM me. I don't want everybody mad at me for opening Pandora's box.

Or is that Ben's box?

Whatever... :P

quote:
Originally written by Mournin' Salmon:

All of this can be answered by admitting that we are the characters in a novel. Until we can prove that we really exist, who cares about endgame?

*this message sponsored by kant*

I saw a movie like that, once.

It was about this guy who was pissed off at God, because his life sucked.

The movie was about the main character's quest to find God and ask him why things were the way they were.

Along his travels, he met some other people... a young woman who was about to commit suicide by jumping off a bridge, an old bitter priest, and another or two that I can't remember.

In the end, they find God.

Some novelist, living in his country home. When they get there, God's sitting in his backyard, writing peacefully. So they start questioning him n' all...

Them: "Why, oh why? Why all the pain, suffering and misery?"

God: "My life sucks. What, you think I'd give my characters a happy life? No way!"

It was a comedy. And it was French. Very bizarre movie, but quite entertaining.

...

On a more serious note, though, I doubt we could ever truly prove we exist. For to do that, we'd all have to agree on a definition of what "to exist" means, and I seriously doubt humanity will ever manage that one. Even then, even if we did. I think the "Truth" can't be proven in the empirical sense I think you mean.

As for caring, I do... but to explain why, well... we'd be here a long time. ;)

[ Friday, October 07, 2005 17:03: Message edited by: Muji ]

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"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00
Politics and Beliefs in General
Warrior
Member # 6347
Profile #11
quote:
Originally written by Laurana:

I'm not sure how much or little a US $ is worth - i tend think of any "foreign" currency as Monopoly-Money... No, don't shout at me now, I know I'm ignorant.
I aimed for the highest min.wages. Min.wages here are something above £5 for even the sh*ttiest of jobs, so surely $5 isn't fair...?

Allow me to introduce you to a very useful little site. ;)

http://www.xe.com/

It'll change any currency into any other.

5£ is 8.80251$ USD or 10.3332$ CAD.

That's quite nice!

Then again, things are very expensive in the UK. :(

That's another important factor to consider: cost of living.

quote:
Originally written by WST ben:

Abortion and homosexuality should not happen. Maybe if the mother is in danger and the baby is likely to die anyway, an exception might be made, but for general purposes, no.
Thing is, abortion doesn't just happen. It takes a conscious, concerted effort to bring about.

Homosexuality, on the other hand, just happens. It's a natural phenomena. It's not just some "crazy human invention".

Saying something "should not happen" is all well and good, but it does. Abortion is a human invention, homosexuality isn't.

How do you propose to control a natural event?

quote:
Originally written by WST ben:

I'm tending to subscribe more and more to Evolution by Intelligent Design. I can elaborate if you want, but I see that scientific evidence points strongly toward a world that is much older than 6000 years.
Please do elaborate!

quote:
Originally written by WST ben:

Most of you know my general political standing.
I'm new, so I don't know. ;)

I wouldn't mind a quick nutshell. :)

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"Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu
Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00

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