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Originally written by Thuryl:

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Originally written by Ash Lael:

Hmm? I honestly cannot recall seeing Muehlenberg on the news even once. I see Cardinal George Pell heaps, though, and in terms of evangelical Christianity, I'd say Brian Houston has a higher profile.

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Muehlenberg gets soundbited fairly often on current affairs shows and the like, and also gets the occasional interview. I'd never heard of Brian Houston until now; I'd heard of his church, of course, but the man himself doesn't appear all that often on the 6 o'clock news.

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Originally written by Thuryl:

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As to your second point, "most of us" is John Howard, Kim Beazley, Peter Costello, Kevin Rudd, Barnaby Joyce. It should be patently obvious that they take a more moderate stance.

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Most of the people on your list are Catholics or Anglicans. I was, as my post indicates, referring specifically to evangelical Christians.

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Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:

I'll tackle the third world poverty analogy later, because it's specious but why takes a lot more and much more boring talking - why is it that public masturbation strikes you as an appropriate analogy? What definite harm does gay marriage actually do?

The point I'm trying to make with my snippy responses is that, if you actually believe these analogies are appropriate - and are not using them as a squid uses ink - you display a pretty clear ignorance of why laws are made. 'It's icky' isn't grounds for a law, no matter how icky it is. It has to also be harmful.

Murder isn't illegal because it's icky. It's illegal because people die. Public masturbation isn't illegal because it's icky. It's illegal because it's a blatantly sexual display that seriously disrupts day-to-day life - and in civilized jurisdictions it's a fairly minor crime, essentially a more severe form of disturbing the peace.

I think at a very basic level the string of analogies you threw out there gives lie to the idea you actually have a base justification for your enthusiasm for anti-gay-marriage legislation besides 'Man, butt sex is gross.' I don't go for it myself, but I'm not my entire country and I don't pretend to be. Neither are you, and neither should you.

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Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:

I listen to a lot of rap. This is mostly because the kind of clever I enjoy in older rock has mostly disappeared in the new grunge-and-metal stuff in favor of formulaic music and lyrics principally about how much life sucks when you're a middle-class white boy.

Rap, on the other hand, remains innovative and clever. There are certainly artists I can't stand, but the entire genre isn't musically bankrupt.

Because you're a racist stooge, you're clearly trying to contrive a way to hold white people listening to black music in contempt. I listen to good music and white people haven't made any good music since the early 80s.

Incidentally, your taste in music sucks and so do you.

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Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:

Right, because like third world poverty or public masturbation, gay marriage generally involves an assailant and a hapless victim.

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Originally written by Thuryl:

In my experience, however popular it may actually be, it's the point of view that's given all the airtime in the mainstream media. Bill Muehlenberg is basically the public voice of evangelical Christianity.

If you don't like it, speak up and tell the world most of you don't agree with him.

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Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:

If you don't believe in gay marriage, by all means don't marry a man.

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Originally written by Salmon Fishin':

To contribute, it seems that gov't lacks the ability to deny the existence of homosexuality. Instead they have attempted to 1) remove the pleasure aspect, 2) isolate, and 3) embarass their electorate. Sad.

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Originally written by Maimonides:

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Originally written by Ash Lael:

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Originally written by Cairo Jim:

By the way Ash, I do know what I'm talking about.

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No. You don't.

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You are not Maimonides.

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Originally written by Cairo Jim:

By the way Ash, I do know what I'm talking about.

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Originally written by Imban:

Has anyone not named Andres Gonzales or Ross Yancey not made easy scenarios?

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Originally written by Drakefyre:

Australia didn't play a brilliant game. They had a man advantage for a whole half and didn't attack or break down the Italians at all. Where was Joseph Kennedy? And is Josip Skoko even on the roster?

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Originally written by Meeshka:

I think Alo is right with some translation being lost. May be I misused "to pay attention". I thought it was somehow similar with "to look at" or "to listen carefully". But not with "to oppose".

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