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Can't raise Riposte? in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #6
Thuryl, thanks,
the Elite Warrior trait could explain it. Have to see what happens after leveling more in Blademaster then... :D

[ Friday, September 15, 2006 20:47: Message edited by: Abraxx ]

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
Can't raise Riposte? in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #3
Well, as I wrote already, I don't have any items on this character which enhance Blademaster or Parry. Hey, I tried raising skills several times now with the character being naked :)
So, no, there must be another reason :(

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
Can't raise Riposte? in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #0
I have no clue why I can't enhance my skill in Riposte. I have Blademaster 9 and Parry 9 without being enhanced by items. And nothing wearing to enhance Riposte. Are there more requirements to it or do I need to find a trainer for the first level of the skill? Or can it only be raised with items?

Any help appreciated,
thanks
Abraxx

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
German review translation in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #2
quite good mlahut :)

@Akai Hoshi,
well, some years ago thats exactly how I noticed spidweb. I wonder what a "backwater european city" might be from your perspective :rolleyes:

krgds
Abraxx

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
What game should I begin with? in General
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #9
Blades of Avernum, its engine, gameplay and structure is much better (and personally I like the Avernum graphics more too). Also it has the better potential since there are many scenarios already available for free and still more to come. :)

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
How I rank A4 and why in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #39
Kelandon I totally agree with you on that point.

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
How I rank A4 and why in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #34
quote:
Originally written by *i:

Yes, but you are not his target audience of hyperactive eight year olds and septugenerian eskimos.
:D

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
How I rank A4 and why in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #32
quote:
Originally written by *i:

Jeff does not care what you think.
Correct, he might not care what I think, but he should care if I buy or not (and maybe others).
If he doesn't, well my wallet certainly cares and is the lucky one here ;)

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
How I rank A4 and why in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #25
Little update from me.
My wife was already annoyed by A4 after half the Demo! She said she rather starts over playing from A1 on again :)
So I just decided to play a bit with Blades of Avernum to compare better, which reminded me of many many more things I'm now missing in A4. I'm not going to list them, because I don't think anyone would now bother anyway (and some of them are listed in other posts already), Jeff certainly knows them.
I just wanted to say that I changed my mind and I'm NOT going to buy A4 for now! Basically because the multitude of unreasonable changes in A4 destroyed the fun to much for me (My disappointement overruled now). And I can't follow the argumentation from Jeff that he did it to enhance(?!) fun, for me he broke with to many intrinsic RPG&Avernum components and rendered A4 to a mindless, automated, hack&slay without surprises (a key criteria which was pointed out before). So not buying A4 at the moment is my vote to hopefully get back to a classic style in A5 or whatever might come next. At least "force" a serious major patch, though admittedly this is rather unlikely.

krgds
Abraxx

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
Is this game nothing but combat? in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #8
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

quote:
Originally written by Jeff in "About Avernum 4":
I have ruthlessly pared away all of the stuff that caused busywork and confusion without adding fun. Needing cash to train and only being able to train in a few places. Gone. Identifying items. Gone. Expensive, difficult resurrection. Gone. First Aid and Alchemy skills that were perpetually worthless. Redesigned to actually work. And there are portals to travel instantly from town to town, though it takes a little time to find them.
Evidently this includes plot twists, puzzles, and basically everything but combat.

Light. Gone.
3D Level view. Gone.
Editor. Gone.
Hidden Doors&Secrets. Gone.
Enemys selectable via letters. Gone.
...
:(
To many "Gone"s means also less Fun!
By the way, I liked the old training style, where I had to pay for it as well as the identifying items.

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
How I rank A4 and why in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #10
quote:
Originally written by Kasumetoru Sai:

quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

Linearity is good when it's implemented well (which I feel A4 does, particularly beyond the demo).
Are you mad? A4 beyond the demo is just a matter of "kill X number of plagues to gain enough levels to kill remaining X number of plagues before reaching the Castle". Chitraches (who are not supposed to look like goddamned clawbugs!), undead, bandits... Okay, so we get to the castle. First, there's a trap that any dumbass could smell from miles away. Then, there's another trap that's even more egregiously conceived. (Honestly, I expected the crystal box to blow up and incinerate the whole castle. They really were asking for it.) Then, um, go off and kill Rentar. Then go off and kill her again. Game over.

This is like some sort of hideous parody. A3 was no good, but A4's plot is genuinely unbearable. I mean, the shades were a very nice idea... Dorikas' band was an interesting concept at first... But everything else was 100% re-hashed.

Chitraches now look like clawbugs?! What was wrong with the old graphic set for Chitraches? Again another change just for the sake of it?

Hm if this is basically the structure how it goes on, I really wonder if I better wait and read some parts of a walkthrough or so to get confirmation. I don't want to have to add plot disappointment to my list too... :(
It underlines my feel of to much linearity now combined with a predictability, which is usually a deathblow for a RPG.
I personally liked A3 (and I didn't had so many concerns like with A4 now) but I don't want to basically play A3 monsterplagues again with Geneforge graphics...

I hope Jeff gets back to the roots with an A5 or something new...

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
How I rank A4 and why in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #9
quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

It still beats A3 in my mind. I honestly enjoyed A4, and I could care less if that makes me clinically insane to the rest of you.

TM, you're really being spoilerrific here.

Well the fact that you like it does not make you clinically insane to me, but I rather would like to have this thread more factual. :)
I enjoy the A4 Demo too, I'm just pointing to reasons why I feel that the series with A4 does not seem to make a good progress in a direction which I personally like, real enhancement (not just change for the sake of it) and fun (without sacrificing good functions etc (why change a running system and mixing the atmosphere of two different RPGs)). So thats the reasoning I come from. Maybe you should just point to the facts why you disagree instead. I at least would be interested and maybe it would reduce a bit my disappointment of A4 too :)

krgds
Abraxx

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
How I rank A4 and why in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #5
Just came up with something more, which might even be changed with a patch (like light and letters for enemy selection):
- The maximum click distance should be a bit more far away from the character position. The ...to far away... message gets a bit annoying too.
- Would be nice to see the armor value in the inventory window, makes changing equipment based on armor more convenient.
- Switching from inventory window to statistics window should be just one click not more.

my 2 cents
Abraxx

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
How I rank A4 and why in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #4
quote:
Originally written by SNM:

quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

Distances are perfectly realistic. Have you noticed how long it takes to run from Fort Draco to Fort Monastery?
It takes about five times longer than it takes to run through Fort Draco. So, not really that long. :P
In an older game it would probably have been only 2 map distances, but those two maps would have been 15 or 20 times as far as outdoors-level map of Fort Draco, which is much more realistic.
I'm not really arguing for the old style or the new style here; I really think it's just more of a sidestep.

Oh, and there actually is a grid when you go into combat, you just have to look closely.

I think the term sidestep fits quite well :)

regarding the grid you are right, but its just not really visible with darker areas and I haven't seen an option anymore to specifically switch a visible grid on and off, that is where my concern is coming from :)

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
How I rank A4 and why in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #2
quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

Wow. That's a big post... but generally speaking, thank you for sharing.

And one question: do you honestly think that A3 was better? How could you?

Linearity is good when it's implemented well (which I feel A4 does, particularly beyond the demo). I mean, A2 was fairly linear when you came right down to it. A3, the least linear, was probably the worst.

Distances are perfectly realistic. Have you noticed how long it takes to run from Fort Draco to Fort Monastery?

Yes, we miss elevation. And secret passages. And light, really. Light was good.

As for some of this, it's inevitable when you consider that Jeff was trying to update the Avernum engine.

EDIT: typo.

Well regarding linearity, as I mentioned till now I only played the Demo. Even if implemented well I prefer less linearity. But I agree that if implemented well linearity can be fun to. :)

Regarding distances I disagree. e.g. compare shooting ranges A4. And now compare this to the scale of the travel map in the older Avernum games. I don't mean the real life time when clicking/walking from one village to the other but the scales how it compares to the "old" Avernum. It just doesn't fit or at least it gives the feeling of a much smaller Avernum cave to me, comparing sizes of walls, ranges, fungis ;) etc...

Ok one could argue that if Jeff would have made distances longer, people would have complained that travelling is annoying (or could have been), yet I would counter with that it is a question of functionality offered, random encounters, events, graphical landscape dispersion etc

Nevertheless, these two points are not my strongest reasons why feel A4 is not a progress.

krgds
my 2 cents
Abraxx

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
How I rank A4 and why in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #0
Ok, so after playing a few hours with the A4 Demo, admitted there are some advantages in A4 but here are some of my points of what I'm missing and why I feel A4 is a step backwards compared to A1-3 and ABlades and leaves me, on the bottom line, with mixed feelings about A4. Unfortunately I don't share the idea that A4 is a major hit or even a progress, though I'm going to order it anyway because I always liked the A atmosphere and story and hope that it returns somewhere after the Demo :) (maybe even incl. A5). Just take the opposite of these items and you've got my suggestions for future enhancements:

- seems to have no real hidden secrets anymore, I think thats a major component, gift and stimulation to RPGs, A4 seems to fail here (at least what I have seen in the Demo by now, and the Demo isn't small :) or maybe I just didn't found them, tell me if there are...)
- no character editor (I'm not looking for an editor to make a god but to avoid inconveniences, test and save real time, have to use the hexeditor now, well at least I didn't had to use it with the A4 Demo yet, but the fact remains that compared to the rest of the Avernum series it is a reduced functionality!)
- when in fight mode no letters appear for the enemys anymore, selecting them with the mouse only is a major annoyance compared to previous Avernum games (correct me if I'm wrong and there is an option to activate this)
- is there no option to activate a grid anymore? In dark areas this would be nice.
- graphics remind me far to often of Geneforge (especially many monster graphics), it just doesn't feel right (And I don't like the Geneforge graphic style anyway)
- for some reason, A4 Demo feels much more linear to me than previous Avernum games, hope that this changes later on.
- now there is only "one map" (which certainly has its advantages), but scale doesn't feel right anymore, also since you're just fighting in the same scale, distances seem to be much much shorter. Distances feel "unrealistic" compared to the large scale map of the old Avernum.
- as far as I remember, there is no 2nd level or higher anymore from which you can oversee the 1st level (another HUGE drawback due to the "one map" style)
In old Avernum games this generated a better dimensional feeling and strategic situations, Cities and Castles (or similar) just looked nicer too. A4 becomes kind of to "flat", this is a big disappointment and for me it renders the advantages of the new style & new character control marginal.
- no real secret doors anymore I as the player have to search for...?! argh I hated this already with Geneforge. I think this is an intrinsic component to any good classical RPG and something I liked a lot (see hidden areas) :(
- errr, is this really intentional that I can't cast light anymore or use a lantern in dark areas, or did I miss something?
- I don't feel that the Character- and Spell-System is any better than in Blades or A3.
So why was it changed then again?!
Also some of the cool old Avernum spells seem to stay forgotten... :(

Well this is what comes to my mind and why after playing the Demo, A4 at the moment (Demo) definitely ranks below Nethergate, A1-3 and Blades of Avernum for me. My Demo conclusion: I personally feel that A4 became to "Geneforgish".
Though I rate it quite low compared to other Spidweb games, it is still worth trying (in case you haven't), since it is nevertheless more fun than many other RPGs out there!

just my 2 cents
Abraxx

PS I know that many of you might disagree, which is fine with me, but if you don't have something constructive to reply to my points and how I feel about A4 and you just want to flame, save your time, you're not going to change my opinion, otherwise comments or corrections appreciated :)

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
So where is the character editor? in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #8
fyi, the tech support was updated and is no longer talking of an editor but cheats only...

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
So where is the character editor? in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #7
Thanks for your advices :) but its not about winning the game or not, I'll play on torment and get around fine, its about fun for me.
Well back to the hexeditor it will do the same job for me, but is not as convenient.

rgds
Marco

[ Monday, December 12, 2005 23:20: Message edited by: Abraxx ]

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
So where is the character editor? in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #2
Seriously? Whats the idea behind:
http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/avernum/avernum4/techsupp.html
then?
I would really miss the editor, comes in handy for adjusting skills when you notice after several levels later that you used up skill points for a rather useless skill (from your gaming perspective)....I'm for the plot, removing the character editor would be quite dissapointing and I don't like the cheats at all. Hope it can be activated somehow or comes with a patch...

rgds
Abraxx

PS I don't have the time to play RPGs several times through like when I was young :) ...

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
So where is the character editor? in Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #0
Where is the character editor? All Avernum games came with one and spidweb also mentions it for A4:
http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/avernum/avernum4/techsupp.html
Or is the editor only available with a registered copy?

thanks
Abraxx

PS Please don't start flaming about the use of an editor, cheats & co, just leave the gamers have their fun :)

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
Avernum 4? in General
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #394
@Frobozz
How can you hope for more plague stories? I think
we've had enough of those :)

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
Avernum 4? in General
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #301
thanks Drakefyre, lets me hope again :)

regards
Abraxx

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
Avernum 4? in General
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #288
Well, if the Player Character graphics stay as they are on the screenshots I won't like A4, really disappointing. I would consider them more a step backwards. Just picking Geneforge graphics simply doesn't fit to Avernum. Hope that this still gets changed, though I doubt it. I rather would have prefered the graphic sets of older times, never really liked the Geneforge ones (main reason why I haven't bought G3, I had enough with G2 already), but now mixing them into Avernum? :(
My wife who liked to play A series feels the same about G graphics and reading through some of the posts here and in other forums I think I'm not alone with my growing disappointment after seeing the screenshots...

my 2 cents, but who cares anyway
Abraxx

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
New Scenario: Death at Chapman's in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #21
Mac running 10.2.8

Well for me it was quite obvious too where to try the death charm and I'm a man ;) :P

cheers
Abraxx

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00
New Scenario: Death at Chapman's in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 2902
Profile #4
Quick and fun, I really enjoyed it. Keep up the good work. :)

**SPOILER**

Some questions:
I noticed too that in the first level of the school game can get very slow.
Is there a way to get through the back door of the doss?
I picked up the notes of Willems but they don't appear in the inventory or as a special item, is this intentional?

rgds
Abraxx

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* Knowledge is Might *
Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00

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