Is this game nothing but combat?
Pages
| Author | Topic: Is this game nothing but combat? |
|---|---|
|
Apprentice
Member # 4127
|
written Friday, December 16 2005 22:35
Profile
Okay, the plot in Exile III/Avernum III may not have been the greatest. But what was nice about it was that it had a lot more going for it other than combat. There were lots of riddles, puzzles, and gismos everywhere. Things you had to think about rather than hack your way through. This was a feature that I have always liked about Jeff's games, despite their primitive feel. I have reached Blosk and as far as I can tell, this game is nothing but combat with "fetch-it" missions. Most of what you need to solve a problem flows naturally from searching the nearby chests after killing a boss. The only challenge is the combat strategy. No rays and mirrors. No conveyor belts. No single character rooms. No control panels. Nothing. The combat certainly is more challenging than the previous AVs (but these have all been easier than the Exiles because the number of creatures to a room is capped an order of magnitude lower). However, I always felt the puzzles were what gave these games their distinctive feel. Am I alone on this? Posts: 48 | Registered: Saturday, March 20 2004 08:00 |
|
...b10010b...
Member # 869
|
written Friday, December 16 2005 23:25
Profile
Homepage
Personally, I can't honestly say I was ever a big fan of beam and conveyor belt puzzles in the first place, so I'm not sorry to see them go. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
|
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
|
written Friday, December 16 2005 23:31
Profile
In a word, yes. I'm not a big fan of mechanical puzzles or riddles in FRPGs, since it's extremely hard to make them seem remotely realistic in context. There are only so many plausible scenarios where you should be faced by these things. But there could certainly have been things to figure out, more realistic things. The engine would seemingly support stuff like places you have to figure out to go to from minimal hints, and can't reach without completing a sequence of actions that no-one would follow by chance. There don't seem to be any things like that in A4. But there are a lot of good battles, and a lot of stuff to explore. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 3933
|
written Saturday, December 17 2005 03:53
Profile
what i dislike most about the unending fighting in a4 is that you dont walk around from city to city in outdoors-view and see a bunch of monsters roaming around, which you can fight or not, but you walk and walk and walk in the same damn view all the time and dont get 5 seconds peace until the next unnecessary little monsters pops out. i dont think its hard, only annoying. very, very, very annoying. actually, so far, i hate a4. -------------------- OH MY GOD IT'S THE FUNKY ****!!! Posts: 425 | Registered: Wednesday, January 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 4127
|
written Saturday, December 17 2005 05:08
Profile
quote:It depends. It depends on whether you view fantasy RPGs as the legacy of Tolkien or the legacy of Vance. Gygax only got his races from Tolkien, and one or two character classes. Everything else in D&D and the early RPGs came from Vance's Dying Earth series. (Gygax is on record admitting this, to the point where he got explicit permission for several of the spells and magic items from Vance). And this type of stuff makes perfect sense in that context. Posts: 48 | Registered: Saturday, March 20 2004 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 335
|
written Saturday, December 17 2005 08:55
Profile
Homepage
But not all RPGs are based on D&D. Avernum borrows nothing from Tolkien or Vance. There are no elves and there is no Excellent Prismatic Spray. Besides, both Tolkien and Vance were authors, not RPG designers. What makes a good book does not make a good game, and what makes a good game does not make a good book. RPGs can borrow elements, but not everything. —Alorael, who also doesn't love puzzles. That said, A4 could stand to have one or two small ones. Maybe even some exploration that requires a moment of thought. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Saturday, December 17 2005 09:32
Profile
Homepage
quote:Evidently this includes plot twists, puzzles, and basically everything but combat. A4 felt very monotonous in a way that A1-3 never did. The combat had a lot of variety and was probably the best that Jeff's ever done, but there really wasn't anything else. Yes, I agree that the lack of puzzles was noticeable, but only in the context of the lack of everything else, too. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
BANNED
Member # 4
|
written Saturday, December 17 2005 13:37
Profile
Homepage
quote:And this says very little. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 2902
|
written Saturday, December 17 2005 14:04
Profile
quote:Light. Gone. 3D Level view. Gone. Editor. Gone. Hidden Doors&Secrets. Gone. Enemys selectable via letters. Gone. ... :( To many "Gone"s means also less Fun! By the way, I liked the old training style, where I had to pay for it as well as the identifying items. -------------------- * Knowledge is Might * Posts: 130 | Registered: Monday, April 21 2003 07:00 |
|
...b10010b...
Member # 869
|
written Saturday, December 17 2005 14:54
Profile
Homepage
quote:On a related note, I really miss the Look command. It'd be nice to have a way of knowing if the monster I'm fighting is the sort that sprays acid when hit before I attack it. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
|
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
|
written Saturday, December 17 2005 16:10
Profile
That's where holding down TAB comes in handy: it shows you the names of everything around you. Probably the nicest thing about this feature it that you don't have to look individually at every object/creature. Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
|
...b10010b...
Member # 869
|
written Saturday, December 17 2005 18:10
Profile
Homepage
Well, damn. That'll teach me to read the documentation next time. Thanks for the advice. >_< -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 6136
|
written Sunday, December 18 2005 18:12
Profile
Damn people seems to don't like A4 that much, i hardly can wait for the game to be released for Pc and ditch it by myself... Posts: 446 | Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 6292
|
written Sunday, December 18 2005 18:17
Profile
Chico, you're....odd. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
|
BANNED
Member # 6554
|
written Sunday, December 18 2005 18:52
Profile
i agree with you, halfway... i dislike that it's mostly combat in a4 i like that that isn't mirrors etc etc what i want is mysterious plots, magical and mysterious(literaly and metaphorically) so far there isn't much of a plot.. (off topic) what i would really like if you could go down where the sliths live, that would be awesome -------------------- join me! we shall harness the power of geckos, bunnys, and fluffy pink stuffed animals and rule the world!!! Posts: 193 | Registered: Wednesday, December 14 2005 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
|
written Sunday, December 18 2005 19:06
Profile
Homepage
arghhhhhhhhh, you need to get Blades of Avernum and play Bahssikava. Then you get some good slith-centered stories. Ant there is a plot, you just need to play past the demo to really get into it. [ Sunday, December 18, 2005 19:07: Message edited by: Ephesos ] -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
|
written Monday, December 19 2005 14:28
Profile
quote:Senator, I knew Jack Vance. Well, at least I've read him. There are laser beams and possibly conveyer belts in his sci fi stories, but not on the Dying Earth. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 3513
|
written Monday, December 19 2005 14:53
Profile
Homepage
Um, so how did Jeff redesign Alchemy, besides making you unable to brew your own potions? -------------------- Nobody appreciates me. It's all "Igor! Fetch some wine!" "Igor! Clean up this experiment!" or "Igor! Bury this in the garden, we're leaving town in 10 minutes!" —Alorael, who tried to become a deivore once. The priest gave him a funny look after the third wafer. Posts: 301 | Registered: Thursday, October 2 2003 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 335
|
written Monday, December 19 2005 14:58
Profile
Homepage
There are definitely gadgets in the Dying Earth books, though. Maybe they're magic gadgets, and maybe they're technological gadgets. Maybe they depend on the mysterious "mathematics" for their power. They're gadgets nonetheless. —Alorael, who likes flying cars, intriguingly intricate libraries, and tentacular wizards who sleep for millenia. And extremely rose-colored lenses. And IOUN stones, which have a great deal of potential for use in even more fiendish object pushing puzzles. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
|
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
|
written Monday, December 19 2005 16:20
Profile
I have no problems with projecting blue concentrate and the like, but Sokoban doesn't have goblins, and I think we should honor the union rules on this one. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 6278
|
written Monday, December 19 2005 16:32
Profile
Homepage
Hmmmm, I don't know. By now I just seem to get to the next bend and -oh yeah, surprise, another nephil. Unlimited arrows - so I shoot it without even getting any interesting spells or javelins out. Go to next bend, another stripy cat, lift bow, shoot.... It's just a bit repetitive. Speaking of javelins. I loved having a kick-ass javelin thrower, but now he's clutching his newly aquired bow and refusing to let go of it, repeating "Butbutbut i don't have to carry the arrows!" I should never have gotten him one. :mad: It's not annoying enough to make me really mad, but I liked to be able to race to places by parking my thumb on the arrow key and watching my party speed across the landscape from above. I guess I'm just not used to the navigation yet. -------------------- I outnumbered them one to thirty! Posts: 33 | Registered: Tuesday, September 6 2005 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 4239
|
written Monday, December 19 2005 16:43
Profile
quote:You can still do that, can't you? I mean, keyboard navigation still works, though I suppose it may be slower than it used to be (Powerbooks are not conducive to using a keypad, and I just can't get used to the little arrow keys)> -------------------- There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were. Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 6503
|
written Monday, December 19 2005 18:14
Profile
quote:This coming from Mr. "I'm not really going to play the game, I just want a walkthrough." Give me a break. Quit trying to sound smart by saying "mysterious (literally and metaphorically)". Do you have any idea what that means? Or what you're saying? Ugh, just go away. Posts: 18 | Registered: Friday, November 25 2005 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
|
written Monday, December 19 2005 18:27
Profile
Homepage
Dude, that's awfully harsh. Give the guy a break... I think arghhhhhhh(etc.)hhh will get used to the boards soon. And keypad navigation is still perfectly viable. It's just a lot easier for you to run into something, as there seems to be far more impassable terrain that isn't very noticeable (like those puny little stalagmites that you can't seem to walk on). -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
...b10010b...
Member # 869
|
written Monday, December 19 2005 21:25
Profile
Homepage
They're very sharp and pointy, and your adventurers have delicate feet. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |