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Archery; and races in Avernum 4
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #8
There's a skill that gives you extre action points? Yow. Yes, that -does- sound useful...

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Archery; and races in Avernum 4
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #4
Hmm. So pole weapons are good. I'm a little reluctant to make one of my fighters a halberdier, though, if it involves giving up a shield AND the nephil gymnastics bonus. I smell a slith priest...

Vlish: Do you mean Quick Strike? What's the difference between that and Quick Action anyway?

I have to say, I love the new First Aid implementation. It brings back the idea of strategizing in order to survive attrition over the course of an entire dungeon, something that Ex/Av never really had, and something I have rarely seen in rpgs since, oh, the late 80's.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Trainers in Avernum 4
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #0
So I hear there is a First Aid trainer early on. What other skills have trainers (at reasonable points in the game)? Skills like First Aid which are secondary but still useful are especially nice to pick up that way, and are a nice thing to know about when you build characters.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Archery; and races in Avernum 4
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #0
Hiya folks. Nice to see so many familiar helpful faces in the new game's forum yet again!

So I read most of the forum posts while waiting for A4 to download, and I've been playing just for a few hours now. A few things struck me almost immediately (especially after reading tasty vlish et al.) and I'm wondering what you guys think, before I restart with a new party, as I probably will soon.

1. Archery. Archery is really, really good. This is not so much because of the unlimited arrows and better skill/trait support -- though that helps -- but because of the new combat system. Ranged attacks become a tactical JEWEL when attacking reduces the amount you can move by more than half (give or take a haste). The fact that archery is strong, and never runs out, makes my archer feel (and play) rather like an Agent. Except better, because unlike Firebolt, archery seems to work when you are one square away from the enemy -- no need to train an archer in any melee weapons at all.

So then I read about how there are four super duper special bows, and I ask myself: is there -any- reason not to give EVERY pc points in archery? I haven't played on Torment yet, so perhaps the damage is less impressive there.

2. Races. Since experience is gained relative to level, as it has always been in the Spidwebverse, and the races and advantages give bonuses that are greater than the equivalent of a few levels of skill points (especially at very high levels) there is very little reason to avoid expensive traits, or races. (That's sort of annoying -- while humans have no advantages, they have 8 icons to the sliths' and nephils' 2.) I can't see any str/dex/int bonuses -- perhaps they are hidden or only show up at higher levels? -- but given the visible or implied bonuses of polearms + resist fire for sliths, and of bows + throws + traps + gymnastics for nephils... I am finding it very hard not make all of my pcs nephils. Bows are wonderful, and I have seen no reason to doubt the utility of gymnastics, either. Certainly it seems better than resist fire, and the polearm bonus, while good, seems less useful than the bows bonus, given that polearms seem to have, once again, just barely failed to be competitive with swords.

Will I be running an all-cat party, rrrrrrr?

Thanks for your thoughts. --slartucker

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Protection vs. shielding in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #3
Are these the same sets of instructions that claim Essence Shield heals you? :)

I wouldn't take those too seriously. I imagine they were composed before the design of G1 and G2 was finalized, and haven't been touched since then.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Darkstone Forging Items (possible spoilers) in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #4
Ivory Skull on armor increases your to-hit chance with melee weapons (and possibly missile weapons or spells, I'm not sure)

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
What do YOU want to see in G4? in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #147
A thorn bazooka.
That's AWESOME. Heh.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Optimal Agent in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #19
Actually, without the trainer it would be 8 1/2. It costs 20 skill points to raises an Agent's Blessing Magic to 9 (it starts at 1) and 16 to raise it to 8. A trainer will only save you the first two skill points.

(For a guardian, on the other hand, it will give you eight skill points worth of blessing magic...)

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Optimal Agent in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #14
YES really, kuc.
I am well aware of the basic three-way division, but a better word for it than "generically" would be "stereotypically." Perhaps you should go look at the original analysis here.

Just because the Guardian is presented as "the" melee class does not necessarily mean it is actually better at it.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Optimal Agent in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #9
Actually, the health factor was discussed in that thread from the get-go, though admittedly not with numbers. I think that got defused by D.V.'s recurring exclamations about how easily everything dies on Torment no matter how much health you have :)

Student of Trinity wrote:
"The point isn't so much that the melee Agent would be a weak Guardian, but that she would be so much like a Guardian that you might as well play a real Guardian instead."

You could just as easily say "the Guardian would be so much like a melee Agent that you might as well play a real melee Agent instead."

*shrug*

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Optimal Agent in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #5
I said that PUMPING blessing magic is not useful. i.e., bringing both it and spellcraft up to 20 as is often done with battle magic -- this would be a waste. I certainly wasn't implying that a melee agent should avoid using blessing magic! Good god no.

And there are very few circumstances under which ANY kind of agent should EVER attack something which is undazed and won't die from the attack if you have less than 10 AP remaining. Cmon, common sense people.

Melee agents may end up Dazing more often than a battle magic agent, but you won't be using essence or energy on spells much -- especially once you get a Regenerating Claymore.

The argument that they are just like weak guardians is COMPLETELY fatuous. There's a thread here (Agent vs. Guardian I think) where I did out the math; by the late game the Agent will only be a few levels shorter on melee stats, but can opt to have a very functional Daze and Strong Daze. The Guardian won't be able to daze tougher creations without completely neglecting other stats; this is a huge disadvantage.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Optimal Agent in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #2
Pumping blessing magic is not very useful, as there seems to be a 'ceiling' effect -- after a certain point, bless doesn't get more powerful, etc., although they do last longer.

It is however very possible to play agents melee-style. Compared to guardians, the loss of a few points on some melee skills is more or less balanced with the significantly easier time you'll have keeping Daze functional. The agent is more flexible, though. There's no real advantage to this over the standard battle magic agent, but it's extremely doable.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Creations in Demo Version in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #8
Yes, that's it. I can see it now...

GENEFORGE 4:
REVENGE OF DIWANIYA

I guess he enlisted those minotaurs for aid, huh.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
What do YOU want to see in G4? in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #117
I'm not exactly a fan of the minotaur idea, SoT, but it's not much more far-fetched than the Vahnatai were in Exile II — and they were a huge hit. Similarly, the change from subterranean to surface in the next game was extremely drastic, yet Exile III was even more popular than its predecessors.

If Jeff wanted to get rid of the canisters, I'm sure he's capable of recombining (hee hee) the things about them that people like — the 'free' stat boosting, the corruption, the decisions — in some other commercially viable way.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Difficulty setting in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #0
Some people mostly use Torment. Some of them post a lot.
Most people mostly use Normal.
However, they are plenty of both here, so you really ought to identify this when you post about strategy.

The game is a drastically different experience on these two settings. They also tend to lead people to very different strategies, since Normal allows you to play in a number of different ways, whereas Torment really forces you to use only the most efficient tactics.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Geneforge Over And Over in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #8
Yes, this was discussed quite a bit when GF3 released originally.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
What da heck happened to Parry? in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #6
Did we ever conclude whether the "weightless armor" effect reduces damage from all attacks, or just the plain physical ones that regular armor is good against?

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
What item collection quests are there in this game? in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #2
There are both rebel and loyalist research notes quests, and they are both on the third island. I think (though I don't remember) they provide equal gold and XP rewards.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
XP and Creations. in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #9
What Hume said. I don't know why no one listens when people explain this. The experience penalty is ridiculously temporary as a result of this, and you will generally just float along 0-3 levels behind a solo character.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Skien of Wisdom in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #4
A-vlishing we will go! A-vlishing we will go!
High ho the merry-o, a-vlishing we will go!

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
No Stone Ring in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #2
No, there is no other place to undergo the test or upgrade the bracelet. (Rather annoyingly. Boats, boats, boats...)

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Next Run in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #13
Well, there is a slowing enhancement, which is essentially the same thing as stunning (melee attack, Glaahk or Stunning Blade stunning, not Stun spell stunning). I think it's from the blue crystal (Runed something). The Stunning Blade is ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL if you are only fighting a single enemy. My melee agent used it to dice up golems and other highly resistant enemies. The Stunning Blade will get you 2 stuns regularly with good Quick Action and melee stats, whereas the enhancement will only get you 1, and not even 1 every attack. I think the regeneration enhancement fits it better -- if you don't have to pause for healing, that's 2 extra stuns you get in, which is huge even if you are hasted and attacking 3 times per round.

However, against multiple regular strength enemies you are much better off with the raw damage power of the Claymore.

The Stunning Blade would also be extremely effective for a Guardian supported by Glaahks. Actually -- that sounds like a fun theme, eh Delicious Vlish? The Glaahkmeister.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Challenge: spiced ham in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #9
I suppose exitzone is fair play? Waiting for those ornks to cross zones takes forever...

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Challenge- Spell Sword in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #8
It seems like bless and shielding have a ceiling as to how strong the effect is, although they (and speed) certainly last longer with better skill. By halfway through the game a guardian will be nearly as capable as an agent at buffing.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
What speed, regen enhancements do - from Jeff in Geneforge Series
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #2
All of them work both ways, except for regeneration. Steel spines on a sword do extra damage the same way that fire cold and acid enhancements do, except the damage is physical. I think it does slightly more damage, but I haven't tested much.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00

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