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Blades of Avernum Improvements in Blades of Avernum
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Saturday, October 13 2007 11:57 Profile #64
quote:
Originally written by Niemand:

If in fact BoA allows multi-row item sheets, I'm not sure yet how I'd deal with it, since there isn't any other simple way for the program to tell the difference. I'll look into it.
The editor supports multiple row items, but I haven't tried it in the game. You would probably check that it is a multiple of the correct size.
But if it doesn't support multi-row items, I guess I'll have to split that graphic up.
Still, the program doesn't recognize the map graphics which are supported with multiple rows.
quote:
Originally written by Niemand:


BTW, you are going to email that file that wouldn't open properly, right? I would like to fix whatever caused that problem.
... I thought I emailed it. The username you gave was "neimand" - is that wrong?
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
insufficient arrows on laptop keyboard in The Avernum Trilogy
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Saturday, October 13 2007 09:11 Profile #5
I really have no idea what's wrong. It works for me (although I don't usually use the arrow keys anyway). I suggest you try the "numpad" or the click method.
(By "numpad" I mean using the fn key with the appropriate keys or whatever. Don't you have a fn key? It's usually labelled in a different colour eg blue.)

You could also try redownloading the game and see if this fixes the problem.

Also, if none of the above works, it might be helpful if you told us what system you are using - Windows or Mac, machine type, etc.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Blades of Avernum Improvements in Blades of Avernum
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Saturday, October 13 2007 09:06 Profile #62
The evidence:
IMAGE(http://www.drunkduck.com/Celtic_Minstrel_Gallery/gfx/Picture%202.png) IMAGE(http://www.drunkduck.com/Celtic_Minstrel_Gallery/gfx/Picture%203.png)
Is there something I have to do to tell it what kind of sheet it's dealing with?
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Blades of Avernum Improvements in Blades of Avernum
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Saturday, October 13 2007 07:43 Profile #60
Okay, so I guess number 5 is out. That leaves the (remote) possibility of number 4, which would only involve putting different values into an existing location.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Blades of Avernum Improvements in Blades of Avernum
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Saturday, October 13 2007 06:09 Profile #58
Yes, it might be very hard to do.

Actually placing the boats in the editor would require that the editor writes to the scenario script (unless there's some way to do it that just never got used).

Displaying the boats in the editor is basically the opposite: reading from the scenario script, searching for lines containing the relevant commands, and interpreting these commands to display the boats in the editor.

It's basically just so that you can confirm that they've been placed where you intended them to be placed. Obviously you could do this in-game as well.

There's probably no way to tell from the editor's code, but it's also possible that the editor could place boats without writing to the scenario script. That's probably not very likely though, and even if it was the case it would require experimentation that could potentially corrupt a scenario.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Blades of Avernum Improvements in Blades of Avernum
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Saturday, October 13 2007 04:57 Profile #56
I just tried Graphic Adjuster. It's pretty good, but when I opened one of my cmgs I got an error.
quote:
Error loading sheet 553, out of memory.
followed by
quote:
Error, the program attempted to store a port without restoring the previous one.
(This is on a cmg with 85 sheets.)
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
G5 wishlist. in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Saturday, October 13 2007 04:36 Profile #185
A teleport spell could be very difficult to implement.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
G5 wishlist. in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Friday, October 12 2007 18:52 Profile #179
If you want to read this information, find the relevant graphic in the Files folder. On the Mac, it's in the file "Geneforge 4 Graphics" (or 3).
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Compiling BoE source code for Windows in Blades of Exile
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Friday, October 12 2007 16:31 Profile #57
Someone should really contact Ormus (via PM or email) to resolve the licensing issue on his Win32 port.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Avernum 4 Observations in Avernum 4
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Friday, October 12 2007 14:10 Profile #44
The one major thing I missed in Avernum 4 that hasn't been mentioned is the lack of elevation.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Blades of Avernum Improvements in Blades of Avernum
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Friday, October 12 2007 10:43 Profile #51
(First of all, sorry about the double post :( An edit really didn't seem appropriate for something of this... magnitude.)

quote:
Originally written by Thralni:



- You misunderstood me - I was referring to Niemand's copy and paste terrain rectangle buttons, *...*

Ah, I see what you mean. I must say though, that I don't really see how your improvement can make it better...
I guess this is a minor thing, I just thought that it made sense to use the Edit->Copy menuitem for anything and everything related to copying (ditto with Edit->Paste).
quote:
Originally written by Thralni:


- Again, I can see your point about the boundaries button. The two wall commands and the Sticky Rectangles are already implemented in the BetterEditor - I was basically suggesting merging them into Niemand's version.

I might not understand what you are reffering too, but placing wall rectangles you can already do, no? I took a look and there is an option to place bouding walls (though it doesn't seem to work...). Was that what you meant?
Place bounding walls basically places walls around floortype #255 (254?), which is called Solid Rock or something. I was referring to the addition Khoth made to create a rectangle of walls. It's the version discussed in this thread.
quote:
Originally written by Thralni:


I don't think, though, that negavtive height values is something the game will understand, but I might be totally wrong about this...
I didn't mean negative values for height, I just meant that a raise/lower function would have to take negative values to lower the terrain rather than raise it. The negative values would be added to the current values, so the net height would not be negative.

Since my original list has been pruned so much, here's a summary of the list so far:
Get rid of the monsters and items menus and instead use the terrain palette area for this.A Raise/Lower Elevation Uniformly rectangle tool (does not replace the current Set Elevation rectangle tool).The two wall-drawing features of Khoth's BetterEditor. Plus maybe Sticky Rectangles from the same.Ability to place quickfire and movable mirrors.Display the locations of boats and horses.Allow the use of the brush tool in conjugation with the height tool.Enable the 5 on the numpad in 3D view (or at least Preview).Allow Change Floors/Terrain Randomly to also search-and-replace with specific combinations of floor and terrain.An Edit Area Description toolbar button.Highlight the active tools in the toolbar.These should be just the ideas that I posted that didn't get shot down by Thralni. The other ideas were just minor things that don't make a significant difference.
quote:
Originally written by Ishad Nha:

The Windows 3D Editor is really quite good but an attempt to compile the source code leads to a full 12 pages of errors and warnings, that is with type set at size 10. Of course there is no compilation with so many errors. Which is a pity because what BoA needs is an editor that anyone can compile if they want. I am sure that would lead to all sorts of beneficial experimentation and improvement.
So I take it the application runs but you can't compile the source? What compiler are you using? That could make a difference.
:eek: Whoa, I'm making huge posts in this thread... I hope nobody minds... :eek:

[ Friday, October 12, 2007 10:44: Message edited by: Celtic Minstrel ]
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
G5 wishlist. in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Friday, October 12 2007 10:08 Profile #172
They don't need gametes. Think of it as taking a cell and injecting the new DNA into it. Voila, a zygote (provided the DNA codes for some multicellular creature).
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
OBoE Suggestion List in Blades of Exile
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Friday, October 12 2007 01:33 Profile #65
... I never said anything about extra SDFs.

[ Friday, October 12, 2007 12:23: Message edited by: Celtic Minstrel ]
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Blades of Avernum Improvements in Blades of Avernum
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Friday, October 12 2007 01:32 Profile #50
That sets each space in the rectangle to a specific height. I'm talking about raising each space by a certain amount. It's only the same thing if the area is flat, which it wasn't in my case.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
insufficient arrows on laptop keyboard in The Avernum Trilogy
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Thursday, October 11 2007 16:58 Profile #1
Usually movement is done with the numeric keypad. On a laptop, this will probably involve the use of a fn key together with other keys on the right half of the keyboard.

You can also click near the lead character and they will move towards the pointer.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Do you name your creations? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Thursday, October 11 2007 15:20 Profile #27
I usually name my creations, as well as trying to keep them alive as long as possible.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Blades of Avernum Improvements in Blades of Avernum
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Thursday, October 11 2007 12:18 Profile #46
quote:
Originally written by Thralni:

quote:
Originally written by Celtic Minstrel[/quote:
Meh, I think that as it is now it's good enough. All the buttons you need are there, and the buttons that are not relevant for a certain view simply appear when they are relevant (mainly talking about the 2D overview and the 3D ingame preview now).
quote]Originally written by Celtic Minstrel
Again, i think it's fine as it is. I don't see a reason to clutter everything up with buttons that aren't that necessary. Just one button to cycle through everything doesn't slow things down that much that I'd say that it should have more buttons.
Okay, I can understand you might not want these. I'd say the main change is that I'd like to be able to get from 3D directly to map view, but this won't be such an annoyance now that Niemand has rearranged the toolbar.
quote:
Originally written by Thralni:


quote:
Originally written by Celtic Minstrel:

The copy/paste terrain buttons could be replaced with a select terrain button, and then you use the Edit menu to copy or paste.
Something like that is already there: with the little hand icon you can select a terrain, and with command-C or command-V (Windows: ctrl-c and ctrl-v), you cna copy and paste.
You misunderstood me - I was referring to Niemand's copy and paste terrain rectangle buttons, while I think you are referring to terrain scripts. I know you can copy and paste "objects" (scripts, items, creatures) with the Edit menu (although I think it didn't work in Isaac's version?).
quote:
Originally written by Thralni:


quote:
Originally written by Celtic Minstrel:

A button to uniformly raise the elevation *...*

Khoth's version *...* of the editor has two good ideas: place wall rectangle and draw walls freeform. *...* It also has a "Sticky Rectangles" option.

I'd sort of like to have the Set Town Boundaries command on the toolbar. Another idea is an Edit Area Description command which would allow you to click inside an area description to set it.
Hmmm. Well, I'm honestly not quite sure about what you mean or if they are really necessary. For instance, I think that only things that we use a lot should be on the toolbar, and I think I only used the "set town boundaries" option once...
Again, I can see your point about the boundaries button. The two wall commands and the Sticky Rectangles are already implemented in the BetterEditor - I was basically suggesting merging them into Niemand's version.
I do think that a Raise/Lower Rectangle Terrain Uniformly is an important thing to have. There have been instances when I wanted to make the terrain lower, but it was already at it's lowest value, so I had to manually raise the elevation of every single terrain square individually, just to make a small area lower. Not fun. :( And as if that wasn't enough, I had to do the exact same thing in any outdoor sections that connected to the one I was working on. :(
quote:
Originally written by Thralni:


quote:
Originally written by Celtic Minstrel:

I'm not sure if this is possible in the scenario format, but it would be great if you could place quickfire and pushable mirrors in the scenario editor.

Show the boats and horses on the map in preview mode.
While quickfire and such would be great, the puhable mirrors, boats and horses are things that you have to enter manually in the scenario's script, and I'm not sure if the editor can handle that very well...
I understand this. I was wondering, however, if the scenario format would allow the placement of mirrors/quickfire in the actual town data (rather than with the script). As for boats and horses, it would mean searching the scenario script for the relevant commands.
quote:
Originally written by Thralni:


I was wondering.. do you use Windows or Mac? Because if you use Windows, I understand that you might not know of certain functions that niemand put in the latest build of the editor.
I have been using Isaac's version. I do have Niemand's version, but I haven't used it much yet. (Yes, I use MacOS.)
quote:
Originally written by Thralni:


I do think we ought to only place buttons on that toolbar that are actually necessary: features we use a lot and therefor really need.
Okay, I'll accept this. It makes sense. But not all my suggestions fall into this category, I think. Edit Individual Area Description would be very useful - yes, even if it were a menu item and not a toolbar button.
And then there's the suggestions that you didn't comment on.
Another suggestion I meant to make is to highlight the active tool on the toolbar.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Blades of Avernum Improvements in Blades of Avernum
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Thursday, October 11 2007 10:55 Profile #44
I have some more suggestions for the BoA editor, especially the toolbar area.

Firstly, there are two basic kinds of toolbar buttons: those that affect what happens when clicking on the terrain area and those that alter the view. (A few buttons fit in neither category.)

Since there are four different views at this point (2D closeup, Automap Preview, 3D, and 3D Preview), it would be nice to have a separate button to switch to each of these views. That is, a total of 4 buttons.

Then there is the button that controls what you see in the terrain palette area (above the toolbar). There are three settings for this. Once again, it would be nice to have separate buttons for each.
Also, it would be nice if the monsters and items could be selected in this manner rather than from the menus. This may be a little harder, but not too much, hopefully.

The copy/paste terrain buttons could be replaced with a select terrain button, and then you use the Edit menu to copy or paste.

A button to uniformly raise the elevation in a given rectangle would be much more useful than the existing set height in rectangle. It would also have to be able to take negative values to lower the elevation.

Khoth's version (available here) of the editor has two good ideas: place wall rectangle and draw walls freeform. I don't think it implements the latter very well. But it's a good idea. It also has a "Sticky Rectangles" option.

I'd sort of like to have the Set Town Boundaries command on the toolbar. Another idea is an Edit Area Description command which would allow you to click inside an area description to set it.

I'm not sure if this is possible in the scenario format, but it would be great if you could place quickfire and pushable mirrors in the scenario editor.

Allow the use of the brush and spray tools when painting height.

Show the boats and horses on the map in preview mode.

I like to use the 5 key on the numpad to place objects in the center of the visible area, but currently I have to switch to 2D mode for it to work. I'd like to be able to do it in preview mode, too.

Lastly, in the Change Terrain randomly, I would like to be able to replace a specific combination of floor and terrain with another specific combination of floor and terrain. (This in addition to the current functionality.)
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Item Augmentation? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Thursday, October 11 2007 09:30 Profile #11
Oh well... I was hoping he had just forgotten to document it. :(
quote:
Originally written by Lazarus.:

I think we found like 6 item 'properties' that are actually just ignored. Augment_number was one of them.
What are the other 5? Are any of them documented?
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
G5 wishlist. in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Thursday, October 11 2007 09:28 Profile #160
quote:
Originally written by Taliesin:

quote:
But this would also block your way which could cause problems of not being able to get somewhere you need to get to.
They did specify "breakable" trees. So you could just burn them up or hack them down when they had served your purpose.
... Since when can you burn / hack down trees in Geneforge?
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
G5 wishlist. in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Thursday, October 11 2007 04:44 Profile #157
quote:
Originally written by Paladin95:

I'm no computer programmer, so, please, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like a fairly easy idea to program if you keep the functions simple. All you would really need is the ability to generate NPC Serviles that will roam a specified area, similar to the NPC's that already exist. You can talk to them, and when you tell them to complete x task it will take z time to complete based on the number y of Serviles that are working on it. After that time is up, the item shows up on the map in the place you designated. It's not a whole lot different than how the school in G3 gets cleaned up as you progress through the game, except the prompts for the change to occur are caused by a talk node with a Servile instead of a plot element.
This is a good idea and is also rather unlikely to happen. I do see that you might be able to do it within the scripting system though - the only thing required on the engine's part is to remember the addition of NPCs and the change of terrains.
quote:
Originally written by Ijuuin Enzan:

Or better yet, a disaster unique to this world: the genemodded plants, all to willing to usurp any building or clearing left alone for long enough. How about a new spell, Overgrow? Used on a section of forest, it would perhaps cause (young, breakable) trees to sprout up, barring your enemies path or even trapping them where they stand.
But this would also block your way which could cause problems of not being able to get somewhere you need to get to.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Item Augmentation? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Thursday, October 11 2007 02:45 Profile #8
But there is a function to check for an item on a space and take it. Unfortunately it checks by class, but it's still there...

quote:
Originally written by Niemand:

Item records in BoA have a hidden "augment_item" property that seems to be ignored by the game (Editor, global.h ~line 521). "it_augment_item_type" is listed in the token parser code (Editor, tokntype.h ~line 1000), but is also ignored, I believe.
it.
Obviously the editor would ignore it since it does not affect how the editor displays an item. And I imagine (assuming this is actually implemented) that giving an item this property would not have any affect until you called the augment_item_on_space function.

The only way to determine whether this works is to test it, which I can't do since I haven't yet purchased the game.

[ Thursday, October 11, 2007 02:49: Message edited by: Celtic Minstrel ]
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Blades of Avernum Improvements in Blades of Avernum
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Thursday, October 11 2007 02:43 Profile #42
Oh, of course; the latest for Windows should be here.

It could still be useful to download the source from the other page to see what has been done, and maybe bring the two versions in line with each other.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
OBoE Suggestion List in Blades of Exile
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Thursday, October 11 2007 02:38 Profile #63
If you use the extra spaces, does the game recognize them?

Really though, it's rather silly that everything in this game is limited to arbitrary numbers. If all these arrays were made variable-length (with malloc() / new, of course - or the STL vector) then there would be vastly more possibilities with the game.
(I understand that this would be a major undertaking and require a rewrite of the scenario format. But I really think it would be worth it.)
(EDIT: I'm not sure whether someone is doing this already.)

[ Thursday, October 11, 2007 02:51: Message edited by: Celtic Minstrel ]
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00
Blades of Avernum Improvements in Blades of Avernum
Celtic Minstrel
Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
 written Thursday, October 11 2007 02:11 Profile #40
The editor's porting is really just a rough translation of the town/outdoors data. It would be nice to have a more advance algorithm to import BoE scenarios - keeping in mind that a few things are no longer possible.

If you're talking about modifying the BoA editor, I believe this page has the latest version.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00

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