Avernum 4 Observations
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Thursday, October 4 2007 13:43
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If you are in the regular display ESC, escape key, does send you to the menu of save game, preferences, etc. It doesn't work all the time, but it works enough so I don't have to use a mouse or the correct key. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6934
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written Friday, October 5 2007 07:34
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quote:I stumbled across an alternative I had forgotten about. If you hit 'u' for 'use' the secret little things will show up with a letter of the alphabet conveniently placed beside them. That sure helped me a lot. Posts: 183 | Registered: Sunday, March 19 2006 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 10234
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written Friday, October 5 2007 16:52
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quote:I'm only in the beginning of A4, but does this imply that it is very difficult to play with Human characters? I haven't been doing so badly with an all human group so far (fighter-type custom, rogue-type custom, shaman, sorcerer). [ Friday, October 05, 2007 16:53: Message edited by: Ming ] Posts: 102 | Registered: Monday, September 3 2007 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Friday, October 5 2007 20:43
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A4 is the first of the Avernum games where experience decreases significantly when your level is higher than the monster's level. So as you get higher you get fewer level increases. The skill bonuses of nonhumans and especially the nephil more than make up for the lower levels due to XP penalty. You don't really get penalized for having high XP penalty since the associated skills that get added on are more than the skill points you would get for more levels using a lower penalty or even a XP bonus. You can play with humans, but you don't get all those nice weapon skill bonuses and gymnastics to avoid damage if you play a nephil. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 10811
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written Saturday, October 6 2007 00:15
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Ming, I'm sure you can do fine with a human party. I'm just partial to nephil characters because I like using ranged attacks and moving quickly and Trying Not To Get Hit (tm). That's always my preferred strategy, because I am a card-carrying coward. :D So I find the gymnastics and dex and missile bonuses you get with the nephil really hard to resist. They're basically tailor-made for what's always been my favored tactical approach, is what it comes down to. Posts: 6 | Registered: Saturday, September 29 2007 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, October 6 2007 01:22
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You can play with humans -- they're just close to 100% inferior to Nephils. In the end this doesn't make a massive difference outside of Torment, though. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central "Making poorly-sourced claims is not the same as determining something." Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 10234
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written Saturday, October 6 2007 04:42
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Thanks for the feedback, I still am early enough in the game that I could swap out for a Nephil for at least one of the characters. Oddly enough I had one initially, and felt he was progressing poorly so I swapped him out with another human! I hadn't considered how he might benefit later in the game. Posts: 102 | Registered: Monday, September 3 2007 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Saturday, October 6 2007 09:53
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quote:It's even worse in Avernum 5. You really should be given an experience bonus if you run with humans in your party. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, October 6 2007 15:13
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Personally I'd just be happy if the Nephils weren't overwhelming better than the Sliths. Although having playable humans would be nice. :P -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central "Making poorly-sourced claims is not the same as determining something." Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, October 6 2007 16:18
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The slith is improved! The nephil continues to dominate. The poor human continues to languish, except it is even more accentuated now with no inherent bonuses and the need to work harder for Battle Disciplines. I keep complaining to Jeff that humans are so boringly and unattractively unuseful as PCs, and that I would love a reason to choose one. So far, the only practical reason is so you don't have to look at four fuzzy or reptilian faces on your screen. -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Saturday, October 6 2007 16:36
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quote: -------------------- TM: "I want BoA to grow. Evolve where the food ladder has rungs to be reached." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, October 6 2007 17:22
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An easy way to give humans an advantage would be to let humans start with up to three traits instead of two (or let nephilim and sliths have only one trait), but that might shift the balance too far in the other direction. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, October 6 2007 18:07
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So basically, non-humanity would be a trait. Sounds balanced. In A4, 2 trait humans would be chosen over 1 trait nephils, but 2 trait nephils and 3 trait humans would each offer advantages. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central "Making poorly-sourced claims is not the same as determining something." Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Saturday, October 6 2007 22:30
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I was pushing for humans getting bonus skill points which keeps the generalist nature of humans, but giving them less than the skill points needed to raise nonhuman skills. The option of an extra trait might be too much depending upon what was chosen. Even with the extra experience penalty, a divine touch, elite warrior, with one other major trait could be come extremely powerful without using skill points. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 10374
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written Sunday, October 7 2007 10:33
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I dont see the big differnce betwen humans and non-humans, I mean I played with 2 humans, 1 slith, and 1 nephilim.My human and slith warior were evenly matched and I think the human was even a little stronger. But I wouldn't mind 3 traited human and 2 traited non-human characters. -------------------- If you listen to LakiRA@ all will go well! Posts: 263 | Registered: Sunday, September 9 2007 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Sunday, October 7 2007 11:23
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Wait until you play A5 and the difference becomes glaringly obvious about halfway through the game. Seriously, A3 was the last game where playing a human was better on all difficulty levels and that's only if you weren't out to get extra encounters with Empire troops. A4 was better to be a nephil on torment difficulty. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5268
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written Monday, October 8 2007 00:33
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While not strictly a race comparison - I've always preferred Elite Warrior to Slith as pure 'traits'. The XP cost of Elite Warrior is lower and, all other things being equal, a Human Elite Warrior will last much longer in a fight than a Slith (parry is great). The Slith can dish it out with a pole weapon, but he just can't take it. And, at the end of the day, a Slith is no use if he is dead because he got beat on and couldn't avoid all that damage. Nephil Elite Warrior - great; Nephil, Fast on Feet, Elite Warrior - even better. Posts: 148 | Registered: Tuesday, December 7 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Monday, October 8 2007 09:22
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Nephil elite warrior divine touch for A4 and A5 is better as a fighter since you get increased blademaster and pick up sharpshooter. Fast on feet isn't as helpful since those extra AP can't be relied on to help when needed. Increased health through tough constitution is useful later in the game. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 8088
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written Monday, October 8 2007 12:09
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The graphics in A4 just sucks, it's not avernum, it's..something different, in a bad way. So I guess A5 won't be much better, imo. [ Monday, October 08, 2007 12:10: Message edited by: Shaken ] -------------------- They can't kill the Messiah. Posts: 9 | Registered: Wednesday, February 14 2007 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 10488
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written Friday, October 12 2007 14:10
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The one major thing I missed in Avernum 4 that hasn't been mentioned is the lack of elevation. Posts: 334 | Registered: Friday, September 14 2007 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Friday, October 12 2007 14:45
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quote:For what it's worth, this has been discussed, and Jeff is bringing it back for A5. -------------------- TM: "I want BoA to grow. Evolve where the food ladder has rungs to be reached." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 10374
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written Saturday, October 13 2007 01:35
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One more thing that bothered me in A4 is that map is totally unaccurate.You get out of the map it says that you are milles from the place you actually are.It is hard when you don't have reliable map. Hope Jeff improved it in A5. -------------------- If you listen to LakiRa@ all will go well! Posts: 263 | Registered: Sunday, September 9 2007 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, October 13 2007 05:19
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The map is actually pretty accurate -- once you figure out which part of the icon that shows your location actually points to your location. It's not obvious (and I don't even remember without looking at it). -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central "Making poorly-sourced claims is not the same as determining something." Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 10374
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written Saturday, October 13 2007 05:48
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And which part of the icon shows your exact location? -------------------- If you listen to LakiRa@ all will go well! Posts: 263 | Registered: Sunday, September 9 2007 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Saturday, October 13 2007 09:33
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quote:Pick somewhere where you know where you should be on the map, look at the map, and figure out what part of the icon represents where you should be. —Alorael, who generally doesn't use the map. In A4 he knew where he was from too much time wandering in A1 and A2, and in A5 he just didn't get lost terribly. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |