Helping Jeff advertise
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Saturday, January 14 2006 10:50
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quote:I sort of agree. However, given a choice between a few well developed characters and lots of sort of developed characters, I would choose the former. Right now, we pretty much had neither. Personally I would rather wait another 2-3 weeks on a game releasing if it would have some built in interactive characters. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5785
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written Sunday, January 15 2006 05:02
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It's the small things that make the difference. Just give me a few scrapes of change here and there, and I will be fine with the rest of the static, monotome world around me. In G3, you had the time-display, telling you how much time has passed since you left the school. And time slightly altered things in the game. That was great. I sort of miss the seasons from previouse Avernum, with the special days and festivals. Another small thing that makes the game more fun is the small, hidden jokes. The ongoing "evil altar" jokes still makes me laugh. -------------------- "..The seventh wave of Thrall stumbled and climbed over the slippery, piled dead and Mazzarin saw The Watcher with them and at last knew the number of his days." Posts: 522 | Registered: Wednesday, May 4 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Sunday, January 15 2006 05:25
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I don't really mind static. Who has time to go back to every person and city they ever visited. What I do not like is the massive dungeon crawls. Like say the clawbug tunnels below the Eastern gallery. That place was so boring and tedious. I'd much rather explore smaller more compelling areas such as bandit forts and so on. I'm sure a lot of people would disagree, mainly those with lots of free time. I usually play a game through once, try to do everything, then never look at it again. I mean who reads a book twice. :o A few more large scale battles would be nice. Perhaps were your group fights along side some allies. Oh and a side note, I just finished the west of Fort Remote quest. Where are all the bodies. If 1,000 soldiers were sent out and only half returned, why are there only 10 bodies by the pylons? I loved the idea of a disastrous attack though. -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5785
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written Sunday, January 15 2006 07:26
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quote:Uh..Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy? 17 times. -------------------- "..The seventh wave of Thrall stumbled and climbed over the slippery, piled dead and Mazzarin saw The Watcher with them and at last knew the number of his days." Posts: 522 | Registered: Wednesday, May 4 2005 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Sunday, January 15 2006 08:42
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Chitrachs ate 'em, of course. If you never re-read books, maybe you should try better books. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Sunday, January 15 2006 10:30
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Originally by VCH: quote:I have a stockpile of books that I own that I have read so many times that several have torn into smaller pieces, many more are close to falling apart, others are covered in food/drink/other spills, and most I can "read" the next half-page or so when I come to the end of a page but don't have a free hand to turn the page immediately. I also have a few movies which I've watched so many times they are beginning to wear out and several Spiderweb Software games I've played so many times I can follow the story without reading the dialog boxes. Someday, I will end up with a repetitive stress injury. Dikiyoba finally added the Lord of the Rings trilogy to the stockpile so that Dikiyoba doesn't have to feel bad about rereading them until they are destroyed. Edit: Forgot quote. [ Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:32: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ] Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5785
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written Sunday, January 15 2006 11:49
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Some books, movies and games are worth reading/watching/playing again, simply because the brain has this marvelous abillity to forget things when it haven't experienced it in a long time. You may remember the grand plot, but not exactly, and not the fine details. And what makes a book/movie/game is often the fine details. For me, such a book is Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, or Man's Wordly Goods, and perhaps also A Conspiracy of Dunces (haven't given it a second try yet, but I know I will.) For an example of a movie I would have to say Twelve Monkeys, and games such as Civilization II and Geneforge 1. In the end, it is all about preference, I know my dad has read probably over 10.000 books, and rarely reads a book twice, but even he has. Afterall, having read so many books, how can you really remember every single one that good? -------------------- "..The seventh wave of Thrall stumbled and climbed over the slippery, piled dead and Mazzarin saw The Watcher with them and at last knew the number of his days." Posts: 522 | Registered: Wednesday, May 4 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Monday, January 16 2006 15:38
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Well fine then, perhaps people do read books more than once. I guess I'm different, no patience. :) -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Saturday, January 28 2006 23:41
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Oh my gosh, what a great topic, and I missed all the fun! :( Well, I'm saying my bit anyhow. Way too much Bob talk for me (and I came up with the term). He's an inevitable symptom of putting the player in a situation where they can do pretty much whatever they feel like. There are much more important things to worry about. What *I* would like to see is a story that is more personal and less political. When was the last Spiderweb game where the story wasn't all about faction X fighting faction y? Having that stuff in there is cool, as a background, but it's not engaging as the main plotline. With war movies, the movies aren't actually about the war, it's just a backdrop to the story about the characters. Imagine the next Geneforge game running like this: Battle lines are being drawn between the Shapers and those who oppose them. You're a farm boy living under Shaper rule, who gets drafted into the army. Under the command of a Shaper, your troop (or whatever) goes to seize/destroy some bunch of canisters/something along those lines that the rebels have. Through a twist of circumstance, you find yourself in the room with the canisters. A bunch of rebels burst in, and you look doomed... only hope is those canisters. You heard they made you powerful or something. You quickly use them and trash the rebels. Then in comes your commander with a few other soldiers and creations. Your commander looks at you, at the empty canisters, and at the dead rebels before you. He orders everyone else out of the room. He explains his problem. They won the battle, the canisters are destroyed, so the objective is complete. Trouble is, you, a regular human, have come into possession of Shaper power. Shaper law makes no provision for circumstance, you're pretty much up for the death penalty here. He shows mercy and tells you to run. Out on your own, as a fugitive from the Shapers, you decide to go home and try to find your family. You haven't heard from them since you were drafted and are worried about how the war might have affected them. ...and on it goes. That sort of beginning sets the stage for a very different kind of game; one that is much more personal than political, and as a consequence, feels fresh. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Sunday, January 29 2006 10:13
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As a small bonus, giving the player a chance to use some but not all of a group of canisters gives a tidy way to create a customized character during the game without creating the usual custom character = generic, impersonal character problem. —Alorael, who likes games that force some role on you. A2 almost gets there with your beginning as an Avernite soldier, but that disappears is all of two minutes. A3 just tells you that you're in Unspecified Services/Covert Ops, which means you're free to do whatever you want. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Sunday, January 29 2006 14:07
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quote:Omg you mean role-playing games? :P In all seriousness, I agree to some extent with Ash. Making things personal is nice. One of the nice parts of A3 was that your Avernite support base in Fort Emergence had already pegged you as their second choices, since their top squad had already gone out and gotten killed. I almost enjoyed being made fun of. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 6752
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written Monday, January 30 2006 19:23
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I agree that more role playing in the game would be nice. I think using the character's names in the dialogs would be a good start. For example, if you have a slithzerikai in your party named Ssschah, a dialog when entering Gnass the first time could read something along the lines: "Ssschah smiles to finally be among many fellow slith." I also think certain side quests should be dependent on having (or not having) certain races in your party. An extra quest in Gnass only available if you have a slith, or a quest by a racist in the castle only if you are all human would be fun touches. Impact [ Monday, January 30, 2006 19:24: Message edited by: Impact ] Posts: 3 | Registered: Monday, January 30 2006 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, January 30 2006 19:53
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Many RPGs, Spiderweb's among them, avoid anything more than the most nebulous of backgrounds. Your character or party comes from somewhere and did stuff, but that's not important. Everything you do and are starts with the moment you start playing. Instead, imagine that you are forced to play as a skribbane-addicted vigilante wanted for and guilty of murdering a corrupt mayor. You flee to Avernum one step ahead of the Empire's finest executioners. Now you get to play and deal with the consequences. That's a forced role, and it's not always a bad thing. —Alorael, who does not recommend skribbane (for others!), vigilantism, or fleeing from executioners. Well, okay. The last isn't so bad. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Monday, January 30 2006 23:54
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Apropos of the last, is DROD: Journey to Rooted Hold worth registering? -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Tuesday, January 31 2006 01:17
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I really liked the beginning of A2. The raid on the fort by the Nephilim was great. As I've said before A4 seemed a bit rushed. [ Tuesday, January 31, 2006 01:18: Message edited by: VCH ] -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Board Administrator
Member # 1
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written Wednesday, February 1 2006 14:00
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"Many RPGs, Spiderweb's among them, avoid anything more than the most nebulous of backgrounds." Several games I have truly loved (KOTR, Planescape: Torment among them) have featured main characters with a well-defined background. And yet, I am personally irritated by games that tell me who I was. When I play a game with a role-playing element, I like to fill in the details of the past for myself, to give more of a context to the sort of character I have decided to play. This is such a strong preference on my part that I can't imagine myself designing a game that works any other way. In the end, I have two absolute limits on the games I design. One is time. The other is that I can only properly design games of the sort I would want to play. Which is not to say that writing games where the main character has a well-defined past isn't a good idea. I'm sure it is. Just not for me. - Jeff Vogel -------------------- Official Board Admin spidweb@spiderwebsoftware.com Posts: 960 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 18
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written Thursday, February 2 2006 02:28
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quote:Which is why you made Blades, right? One of the elements in RPGs I find enjoyable is book-style Machiavellian intrigue. Stuff like the way you join the Scimitar (I'm talking E1 here), like how you find that cave with a heap of chopped up Empire soldiers, and a Scimitar carved on the wall. Or those epic battles in E3, where the dialogue describes some horrific scene and then ends with an OK button labelled with something like 'Oh dear...' I think the A4 engine gives a much more personal feel to the world as well, that feeling that you're never really outdoors is cool, the fear that those pesky Goblins may just chase you all the way down to the front gate of the damn fort is actuality, rather than just, well, alluded to. I agree with Al on the RPGs-being-fun-when-you're-pushed-into-a-role thing as well, just that it's a problem finding things-to-be-pushed-into that everyone finds cool and exciting (KOTOR *definitely* delivered on this, with KOTOR2 destroying it entirely). Md. Posts: 304 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 6216
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written Thursday, February 2 2006 09:38
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Regarding RP, I find these games give enough background to allow bits of role play to appear out of nowhere. I realized that my characters tend to take on lives of their own. ("Oh, that silly warrior got himself enfeebled again. Fix that, will ya, Wiz?") I do suspect that my two current mages are engaged in a bit of one-upmanship mainly because I can't figure out why one hits before the other, but weaker. After a while I consider this part of the story rather than bothering to fix it. Makes the potion-sharing, gear-rearranging pitstops much more fun. ("I'll trade ya two hasting potions for your last energy elixir...") Point is, the trilogy gives plenty of background, I think, while still allowing me to paint the story in my own head any way I like. Of course, I just realized that my sorcerer is wearing a skirt (small graphic) which is totally ruining his chances with the mage. Something I've always wondered, though, who the heck came up with the name "Mycroft"????? Posts: 48 | Registered: Saturday, August 13 2005 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 6216
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written Thursday, February 2 2006 10:09
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quote:I have a theory about that. Unless he is very much in touch with his feminine side, he's had a wee bit of input from a gal-pal. There are certain bits of story line, dialogue, design, humor, etc that seem to point that way - female players may know what I mean. There is no let-the-girls-play-too condescention - the battle of the sexes is not even an issue. I don't wish to ruffle feathers, but such even-handed confidence is rather uncommon and unexpected. (Thank you, thank you, for not designing a Blessed Plate Mail Bustier.) These games present as many male as female fighting characters, good or evil, and some of the story lines and characters are greatly enriched by making sure things don't get overpowered by testosterone. Don't get me wrong, I like going berserk on those demons as much as anyone :) but the gentle humor and interactions add to the fun more so than the low-brow one-liners so rampant elsewhere. Unlike many many games out there, this one is as non-sexist, non-misogynist, non-homophobe, non-racist as it gets (even while dealing with opposing cultures that are, by default, racist). Kudos to all those involved. Here's to hoping that there are friendly spiders in AV4 - but I'm silly that way [ Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:23: Message edited by: Shine123 ] Posts: 48 | Registered: Saturday, August 13 2005 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 5977
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written Thursday, February 2 2006 10:29
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quote:I just thought that "Mycroft" has an awfully big similarity with "Microsoft."Was this intended (I certainly hope not). By the way, shine, you can always change the sorcerer graphic. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, February 2 2006 12:13
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Mycroft is the name of Sherlock Holmes' lazy older brother. What do you do with genius and no will to use it? A government sinecure, of course! —Alorael, who suspects that Jeff carefully tailors his games' politics to match the opinions of the septuagenarians. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Thursday, February 2 2006 12:25
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Jeff doesn't work alone - he has two "employees," both female. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3040
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written Thursday, February 2 2006 13:41
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quote:On that note, I wonder if Jeff has ever lost any customers over Nance and Elspeth? -------------------- 5.0.1.0.0.0.0.1.0... Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6632
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written Thursday, February 2 2006 14:58
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My prejudices tells me all of Jeff's customers are too smart(1) to be offended. Logic tells me I'm wrong on this though. (1)Smart being defined as 'not getting offended by this' Posts: 50 | Registered: Monday, January 2 2006 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Thursday, February 2 2006 15:12
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Nice point, Shine. Although I've always wondered why everyone in Exile was so damn tolerant. I suppose being thrown into the underworld for your own differences might make you more tolerant of others -- but for many people, it would probably make them bitter, and make them search out scapegoats. I suppose the nephils and sliths sucked up a lot of the hateful energy, and some of those people ended up in the Abyss. But Exile still seems inconceivably tolerant to me. (Maybe it's better that way.) ...on the other hand, Nance and Elspeth don't seem to be entirely out of the closet. (I suppose I wouldn't be either, in their shoes.) -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |