A Few More Advance Words On Geneforge 4
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Wednesday, May 3 2006 14:10
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Spray and Swarm Crystals, and Madness Gems, are in effect options to attack many enemies more weakly. BTW, I've been replaying G1, and I just used the Geneforge. I've saved the Inner Crypt for last, so that have something to do with all this power besides burn the whole island down and take over the world. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Wednesday, May 3 2006 14:17
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More regeants to make stuff like crystals, wands, etc. There is just not enough. You burn through stuff to fast. :mad: -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7067
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written Wednesday, May 3 2006 14:53
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I'll assume your talking about guardians. You could put enough ingreidiants to make wands more useful. But, personaly I use a melee-diplomat-mechanechs guardian and I never had much trouble dying. Yes I do die, some. On a side note however, Delicious Vlish must enjoy his new size of post count. The other side note :) is that I have great hopes for the new addition to the geneforge series. -------------------- "I knocked him out, but I managed to hit the reply button before he fell down."-The person behind him. Posts: 153 | Registered: Monday, April 24 2006 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5363
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written Wednesday, May 3 2006 15:10
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Personally, I would like the 4/6 type creation limit removed. Especially if 3 new creations are being added, being able to only take 4 types might hurt. Besides, I like to have a combined arms force. -------------------- Learn from others mistakes. Its safer and more entertaining than learning on your own. Posts: 100 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7067
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written Wednesday, May 3 2006 15:28
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I agree with you. that gets annoying quick, I understand having only 7 creations. But if Jeff would make it so were you could have 7 different creations that would be awsome. Just think you could have your starting fyora and a cryoa.... well.... you get the point. (I hope) -------------------- "I knocked him out, but I managed to hit the reply button before he fell down."-The person behind him. Posts: 153 | Registered: Monday, April 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Wednesday, May 3 2006 15:40
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You now I think I will make an attempt to actually use creations in G4. I have yet to create anything all through G1-G3 except to see what they look like. I assume I'm missing out on some of the game's actual fun. -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4278
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written Wednesday, May 3 2006 16:19
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Whoa, Jeff actually reads what a low-life like me posts about his games? That makes me less angry. Anyway, back to the topic of serviles shaping. I still don't like it at all. But then, to me there's no way to play a satisfying game as a servile. It would just be a novelty. Call me an arrogant shaper, but I truly believe that all of the problems of the magic/shaping getting out of control is really only perpetuated by mad shapers/humans. In geneforge 2 for example, which I consider to be the perfect game. Can't be improved upon. In G2, the only reason the Awakened weren't dead by the time you got to Medab is because of Tuldaric. All the cunning of Pinner, and other serviles could not make up for the sheer power of one crazy mage. Or Spharon's Lands in G3, those serviles were probable the strongest serviles we've run into so far, but that's only because they were all controlled by a human master. ^ And I think that's the main point I'm driving here, is that although it would be really cool story-wise to play from the perspective of a servile, it shouldn't have the same gameplay. Otherwise its just too much of a leap from the previous Geneforge's (like in the examples above). I mean, as stated on the previous page, its just not your style, so its a leap I'll have to adjust to, but I think we'd be better off with a Roman/Celt situation when it comes to Human/Creations. -------------------- Pathological Jerk Jerking at Spiderweb since 1999 Posts: 143 | Registered: Sunday, April 18 2004 07:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Wednesday, May 3 2006 16:48
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I'd like to see the Geneforge finale play out like Nethergate. Shapers on one side, Rebels on the other, and you could play as either side and get a different ending. Playing as a servile I don't think will work very well in my own opinion. I mean, enemy shapers will just use their leadership skills on you to talk you out of whatever. That convincing aura of authority. I mean, we can play as shapers now and use it on the various serviles we meet... What would stop the shapers from using it on a servile player character? And what about shapers with Dicipline Wands? I mean, ever seen how much damage one of those wands does to a servile? Playing as a servile character, all of those elements would have to be convienantly forgotten because there just wouldn't be a good way to work it in the to the game. Servile player character picks up a dagger and some chiton armor in the starting area, and the first shaper you meet verbally dominates you with leadership, and go grab your rake and go back to the garden. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Wednesday, May 3 2006 18:34
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Playing a servile versus a human would mean a whole new set of dialog options. Some serviles are able to resist shaper commands. Whether this would be given for PC serviles or you would have to raise abilities to be able to resist is up to Jeff. As a servile you are at the bottom, just ahead of the ornk (?). Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Wednesday, May 3 2006 22:41
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DV, that's simply not the way the shaper forcefulness ("leadership") has worked in previous Geneforges. Yes, it works wonders on meek, obeissant serviles. But it works nearly as well on meek, obeissant non-shaper humans. I don't remember it being very effective on even the random serviles in Kazg. And servile leaders among the Awakened and the Takers in 1 and 2 aren't one whit more vulnerable to it than shapers are. Neither can be at all commanded, both get mildly better but usually inconsequential new dialog options with high leadership skill. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6652
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written Thursday, May 4 2006 01:59
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And plus, the ingrained obedience is genetic. If rebels can make themselves able to destroy Shapers by pointing, they'll probably find a way to get rid of the obedience. -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Thursday, May 4 2006 03:55
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I don't think so. The aura of authority also works on the normal human beings around you, making them meek and more apt to deal with you. So it's more than just a genetic urge for serviles. As for it not working so well on leader types, you wont be a leader type. At least, I seriously doubt it. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Thursday, May 4 2006 04:38
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Yeah, but their resistance doesn't come from the fact that they are leaders. (Perhaps it is not an accident that serviles with resistance to shaper charm tend to be smart and strong and are likely leaders, but that's a different question.) As for being bizarrely smart and strong and being able to learn things and increase in skill at a truly incomprehensible rate -- well, that seems to be a given, regardless of race. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5754
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written Thursday, May 4 2006 05:16
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I think that the Guardian should be like in G2 except with more mental resistance. The base damage of weapons needs to go up. The Puresteel Soulblade went from 15-120, +1 QA, +2 PA to 15-60, +1 QA, +2 PA. Thats a BIG drop and since the same happened to other weapons the Guardian was hit hard. This way with super parry, weapons with higher base damage and more mental resistance the Guardian will be as powerful as the Agent. That being said I still think the Guardian is as powerful as the Agent it's just that you need a certain playing style. My Guardian on Gull Island could kill my Agent on Isle of Spears. This is my Guardian Dakro Level: 33 Health 81 Essence 108 Spell Energy 74 Armor 110 Fire 70 Cold 70 Energy 70 Stun 103 Mental 40 Poison 82 Acid 32 Str 10 Dex 4 Int 4 End 14 MeW 10 MiW 7 QA 12 PA10 BM 0 MM 0 BlM3 SC 3 FS 1 BS 1 MS 1 HC 5 Lead. 11 Mech 14 Luck 9 With Stats approx. like this and the right tactics the Guardian can wipe the floor against EVERYTHING. Yes I do play Torment. [ Thursday, May 04, 2006 05:17: Message edited by: I_am_a_Minotaur ] Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7002
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written Thursday, May 4 2006 10:21
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Dakro? So uninventive... But really, now that you're playing as a Human/Servile maybe Leadership really will represent leadership... Also, on the same subject I think in the GF games where you play as a Shaper, "Leadership" should be replaced with "Authority" or some such thing, because that better represents Shapers. -------------------- Polaris Posts: 193 | Registered: Thursday, April 6 2006 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Thursday, May 4 2006 11:06
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About Leadership, I see it more as a "diplomacy" skill in some games: the ability to convince people, rather than some sort of hypnotic power. As for Serviles' genetic need to obey, on one hand if they are reprogramming themselves they can get rid of that need too. On the other hand, if they change themselves so much, are they still "Serviles"? Just like Dryaks changed themselves into Drakons, Serviles who change themselves in such fundamental ways should probably be considered a new species. quote:Ok. My suggestion of multiple attack modes wasn't very serious anyway. Making a well-balanced game is one of Jeff's strongest points, so I am not too worried about that. [ Thursday, May 04, 2006 11:08: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Thursday, May 4 2006 11:45
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I didn't really mean to shoot down the suggestion. The major weakness of Guardians is that they can get mobbed easily. Speed and a few crystals can usually save your bacon, if you were prepared enough to already have Speed on. But if combats against groups become more the norm, Guardians will need to have some consistent option. Maybe it will be enough for Guardians to keep a small number of creations -- mine never seem to manage this, but perhaps they'll just have to learn for G4. But since it would be silly to have Swarm Crystals scattered under every bush, perhaps some option other than crystals will need to be devised. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7040
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written Thursday, May 4 2006 14:18
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about geneforge 4, do you find out what is behind the the sealed stone door from geneforge 2? or do you find that out in geneforge 3. I dont have the full version of geneforge 3 so i can't find out for myself. :( Posts: 6 | Registered: Sunday, April 16 2006 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7083
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written Thursday, May 4 2006 17:22
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Interesting information and discussion to say the least. As someone that originally tried to play Guardians but wound up playing Agents, I feel I should chime in on that bit of discussion. As others said, Guardians seem to have big problems when they get swarmed since melee combat is so damn deadly. I did go through a fair amount of the game as Guardian in GF3 (before getting distracted from that game for a long time and not remembering what I had done) and found it far more survivable than my memories of GF1, but all it would take is one bad step into a group of baddies before I started having critter hack off 1/3 of my health at a time while being too stunned to attack and heal. In contrast, an Agent has powerful crowd control spells at her disposal that can be used to prevent multiple attacks on the character, not to mention making sure an enemy with a strong ranged attack doesn't get to use it before closing to melee range. Both Guardians and Agents lack the ability to walk around with a huge army like a Shaper so crowd control makes a huge difference when enemies in melee combat hurt so much. And because monster melee attacks are so lethal, as others have said, simply removing that CC ability from agents would make other classes frustratingly annoying to play. I suspect the way I've played my agents is different from what others have done, but still proves extremely powerful just because of the crowd control. I didn't switch over to Agents for their better magic skills so much as them not being total wusses in combat. I basically just buff myself, find monsters, use mental spells to CC them, then pick one and start stabbing it. It doesn't use all of an Agent's abilities by a long shot, but the crowd control is just that powerful and often needed for non-Shapers. Posts: 19 | Registered: Friday, April 28 2006 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7002
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written Thursday, May 4 2006 17:44
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quote:Tidied up a bit... Yes, you find out in Geneforge 3. Unfortunately, it's a plain old Drakon. His name is Lord Ghaldring. He's mentioned numerous times in Geneforge 3. -------------------- Polaris Posts: 193 | Registered: Thursday, April 6 2006 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6754
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written Friday, May 5 2006 13:45
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quote:I think Golems and other hybrid creations need materials, combined with essence. The vats of glaahk parts and stuff are for studying. The Shaping labs are basically essence sources. And the first Geneforge, I think in the second area, mentions that the round stone platforms are only there to make shaping more convenient. What I don't understand is how Shapers can keep essence in their bodies. For a long time I thought essence was just a form of magic/energy. Then in GF3 we're told that it's a mixture of chemicals, magically charged good, and partially living flesh. Maybe the word "essence" refers to the fluid as well as the energy? -------------------- One of these words is mispelled. Posts: 284 | Registered: Tuesday, January 31 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, May 5 2006 15:30
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Shapers have essence glands, of course. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Friday, May 5 2006 16:25
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quote:When I read this, I could not help thinking of Dr Strangelove. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4278
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written Friday, May 5 2006 17:21
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quote:Purity of essense!!! Equality for creations? That's communist talk! ^ teh offtopic. -------------------- Pathological Jerk Jerking at Spiderweb since 1999 Posts: 143 | Registered: Sunday, April 18 2004 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7083
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written Saturday, May 6 2006 01:09
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I'm pretty sure one of the games mentioned that shapers have some of the liquid essence injected into them, or otherwise introduced into their system. I also figure that when you level up and/or boost your intelligence that you learn how to get more out of that essence as opposed to finding more to inject yourself with. Doesn't explain how non-shapers are casting some of those spells that you have to burn essence for of course but outsider magic is one of those things that hasn't really been elaborated on (/end thinly veiled suggestion for a facet of the game world to explore in future games). Posts: 19 | Registered: Friday, April 28 2006 07:00 |