"The End of Blades" Discussion

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AuthorTopic: "The End of Blades" Discussion
Infiltrator
Member # 2104
Profile Homepage #25
Aww, how sad. I have a scenario being planned, but since my creativity has been shot lately, I haven't been able to come up with anything in...about five months. If I could, I'd probably get it finished. Somehow.

[ Thursday, February 16, 2006 21:22: Message edited by: Jonah Zolohahni ]

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—Zxquez Zolohahni
Xerch'de/Rate.
Posts: 549 | Registered: Thursday, October 17 2002 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #26
Good opportunity for less than constructive comments.

I've also seen that E. slith volunteers artistic talent for scenario designers.

Because I just know you were asking out of curiousity.

*this message sponsored by fema*

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #27
quote:
Originally written by Millicent, Dear Millicent:

Aww, how sad. I have a scenario being planned, but since my creativity has been shot lately, I haven't been able to come up with anything in...about five months. If I could, I'd probably get it finished. Somehow.
Be at the next chat, and we'll help iron it out (provided we can wrench the conversation away from the downers). Or just PM/AIM one of us, and we'll be happy to help.

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #28
quote:
Originally written by Arancaytar the Grey:

Uttered motivational, optimistic phrases.
Aran's right. The more all of you try to defeat this notion by talking, you prove it.

All we're suggesting for right now is open-sourcing BoE. And hell- even if we don't open source it, I'm willing to start pirating it like hotcakes. It's just that all other ideas are exhausted, and putting BoE out there as a penultimate demonstration AND a more feasible designing platform is a good idea at this point.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2104
Profile Homepage #29
quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

quote:
Originally written by Millicent, Dear Millicent:

Aww, how sad. I have a scenario being planned, but since my creativity has been shot lately, I haven't been able to come up with anything in...about five months. If I could, I'd probably get it finished. Somehow.
Be at the next chat, and we'll help iron it out (provided we can wrench the conversation away from the downers). Or just PM/AIM one of us, and we'll be happy to help.

Well, the problem is, I got a basic two sentence plot beginning five months ago, and could not think about anything since. Which makes me sad.

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—Zxquez Zolohahni
Xerch'de/Rate.
Posts: 549 | Registered: Thursday, October 17 2002 07:00
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #30
I'm finishing my penultimate town AS I POST. I then need to draw and script the last town, which may take a few days owing to work and "real life".

It's too early to ask for beta testers, and I don't want to tempt fate, but look for a new thread in this forum around Thursday next week...

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And when you want to Live
How do you start?
Where do you go?
Who do you need to know?

Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #31
I fiannly finished ALL towns in my scenario. coding of dialogue for two and a half town is left, plus coding of specials in about five towns. however, most of these things will be easily and hopefully quickly done.

I also drew an extremely ugly map of the outdoor section of my scenario. one can look at it on my website. Just look at the most recent "news" addition (2 - 17 - 2006), and click on the "here" link.

[ Friday, February 17, 2006 07:34: Message edited by: Thralni, The flying Dutchmen ]

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Play and rate my scenarios:

Where the rivers meet
View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape.

Give us your drek!
Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #32
quote:
Originally written by Prometheus:

quote:
Originally written by Arancaytar the Grey:

Uttered motivational, optimistic phrases.
Aran's right. The more all of you try to defeat this notion by talking, you prove it.

All we're suggesting for right now is open-sourcing BoE. And hell- even if we don't open source it, I'm willing to start pirating it like hotcakes. It's just that all other ideas are exhausted, and putting BoE out there as a penultimate demonstration AND a more feasible designing platform is a good idea at this point.

Ahem. Comments along these lines will get you ejected from the boards, even if your others don't.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 27
Profile #33
quote:
Enraged Slith: Remind me... how much have you done to stop Blades dying?
Besides my recent graphic submissions, I am in the process of different projects for scenerios, and making a few new ones of my own. I'll show my progress when I get home.
Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #34
See, I was just noticing that the people who were saying that Blades was dying (and thus the people who you were addressing) were the ones who have been the backbone of Blades for a long time. Stareye has made six scenarios (three of them are immense), I, in partnership, have made six, and TM has made some utterly ridiculous number. Plus all the other stuff we've done. So it's an odd sentiment to be directed at people like that, from someone who has done a couple of graphics and has a couple of unfinished scenarios. Blades isn't dying because of OUR lack of commitment to it.

Just saying.

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SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #35
When he said that Blades will only die if "you" let it die, I don't think he was addressing anyone in particular.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Agent
Member # 27
Profile #36
... I wasn't adressing anyone specific... I wrote that post while wondering how to get new designers involved, including (maybe) myself.

Edit: And I know that dinky little graphics are nowhere near as hard or time consuming to make as scenarios themselves, but I like and have a knack for making graphics, so I hope that my minuscule contributions will inspire someone.

[ Friday, February 17, 2006 20:01: Message edited by: Enraged Slith ]
Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #37
Well, he certainly wasn't addressing those who were saying that Blades wasn't dying. It would make no sense if he was. So who does that leave?

Eh, forget about it. It ain't important.

[ Friday, February 17, 2006 20:26: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #38
Furthermore, two things:

1. Those of us who have been in the community for over 5 years (this is how long Creator has been in it, I believe) have a better perspective than most. When we say things like "the community is incredibly slow" or "people have no sense of organization," it ain't just blowing smoke. It's a crisis that aught to be addressed.

2. Meaningless rhetoric is meaningless. This is not the same as good ideas- for instance, if you have a suggestion on how to improve the rate of design or how to make it an easier process or something we haven't thought of, that's awesome. But if your ultimate conclusion is "make more scenarios," then your statement is vacuous. You may as well say that the solution to ending poverty is for the poor to have more money.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #39
I actually agree with what TM just wrote there, specifically point 2. People won't just design because people tell them too, or because BoA is "dying." People start designing, in my opinion, for several reasons:

1) They want to do something new. that is why I started.

2) they have some great ideas, of which they can only find BoA as a good way to make that idea reality.

3) Some people started designing as they wanted to learn about coding, or even just designing by itself.

Now, In my opinion, most people don't start designing for these reasons:

1) they think it is to difficult for them to grasp. Hey! if I understand how to make a complete factory with working machines, then why not you? To solve this problem there must be made more utilities, and probably also more usefull articles, that relate to BoA. most articles, though not strange, relate to BoE.

2) Some people have an idea, but don't know how to make a scenario from it, and some people have no idea at all. With the chat currently running, this problem is being resolved.

3) the last rpoblem is that some people just don't want to. others are doing the work, so why bother? there is no real solution for this, but to persuade this people to start designing, which most probably won't work.

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Play and rate my scenarios:

Where the rivers meet
View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape.

Give us your drek!
Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5274
Profile #40
quote:
Enraged Slith: Remind me... how much have you done to stop Blades dying?
quote:
1. Those of us who have been in the community for over 5 years (this is how long Creator has been in it, I believe) have a better perspective than most.
Attitudes like these are snobby and unproductive. I doubt the lack of scenarios is not primarily to do with laziness, in fact I'd wager that the very nature of BoA is the primary cause of the low number of scenarios released.

The first thing to consider is the familiarity and expertise needed with the editor to create a passable scenario. Of course you don't have to be a rocket scientist to operate it, (hell even I can manage,) but it takes time, far more time than a BoE scenario. The larger investment of time means on average less scenarios will be released than we've grown accustomed too with BoE.

I don't think the lack of scenarios at this stage is something to be alarmed about, rather it's the lack of players and designers that should make us poop ourselves. The crippling thing about the lack of new talent is that the only way to attract new players and designers to BoA is to have a database of worthwhile scenarios, which in turn require designers to create. People even today are buying BoE simply because of the wealth of scenarios it has built up over the years. Without those why would people bother to learn to use a game that is quite dated in all other aspects?

This is the main thing we're lacking and I honestly don't see much of a way to attract new blood, there are just too many other games and distractions out there. This really hit home the other day when I was almost heartbreakingly close to finishing my BoA scenario, (Note to other designers: never announce when you intend to release your incomplete work, *kiss of death*,) but only until Fallout 2 came along to amuse and distract me with it's charm. I honestly can't see how BoA can capture and hold someones attention when better alternatives present themselves.

At this stage BoA seems to be the bastard halfspawn of the Avernum series, the red headed stepchild of the Spiderweb family. It's already been superseded in both technical and story terms by Av4, and I'm not sure if we really have much of a chance.

[ Saturday, February 18, 2006 16:10: Message edited by: Poit ]

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I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 5459
Profile Homepage #41
quote:
*i shone these words into existence:
This will be the topic of the next (and perhaps the last) Blades Chat on Saturday, February 18 at 6 pm EST.

Nuts! And just when I was thinking about joining in, the chat has to be around 3 am. I'll be sound asleep way before that.

quote:
Earlier written by Supanik:
Yeah, the thing is, a lot of people are working hard but it's gonna take time for the fruits of our labours to blossom, as it were.
I never work hard (too lazy) but you're right. Backwater Calls took me about six months and Magus of Cattalon possibly slightly less to complete. During the design of BC I had school to worry about and I was only learning Avernumscript and when I was making MoC I had plenty of free time due to my employment status. Right now I only have the time to make my scenario during weekends and even then I could be too drained to even get started. So it might take another six months for me to release a much shorter scenario. Arr(gh)!

quote:
Jumpin' Salmon surfaced and spoke:
If BoA is to match BoE, it needs school age designers. People with lots of free time and the imagination to make a desirable scenario. I'm not seeing a lot of that yet, except for UV and ALR, which immediately were soundly criticized. One of the more prolific designers, mike slack, is doing exactly the right thing for blades by making what he wants and finishing it. Yet he also gets criticized for the content of the scenarios.
If BoA is to match BoE in terms of quantity then yes we need more school age designers. I would prefer quality but I takes what I gets. UV and ALR were both criticized for a reason, but I hope that hasn't scared Archmagus Michael and the designer of ALR (Omikron I believe) out of designing scenarios. Seriously, you can only go up from that and in my opinion as long as someone likes your scenarios it was worth releasing them. Also, I think it's great that mike slack is designing and releasing scenarios but that doesn't mean I have to like his work.

quote:
Kelandon spake thusly:
One more general thing about this topic: Saying that Blades is dead is a slap in the face to up-and-comers like Ephesos and Smoo (and dare I include myself?). Maybe we need a couple of slaps to get our scenarios done, but bear in mind that every time you say that, that's what you're doing .
Pfft! Even though Blades would be deemed dead by consensus I'd still make and release scenarios (dead things are hawt!1!!) if only for myself and my brother to play. By the way, I have a "coming soon" thing-o-ma-jig on my website about my new scenario and I might even update it as I progress.

quote:
Dikiyoba told Dikiyoba to write:
I'd like to see the scenarios that are currently out but buggy, short, unbalanced, and filled with typos but have a relatively (it's a matter of opinion, I know) good premise fixed up than have more bad scenarios created.

Dikiyoba plays the good scenarios more than once as opposed to the bad ones, which get played halfway through and then thrown away.

Hey! I fixed the typos and bugs in BC. Stop yelling at me! Wah, wah, wah. That's it! I quit! You'll never see me again! ;)

I play all the scenarios through, be they short, buggy or just generally horrible. And by the way has there ever been anything besides a slow release pace for BoA scenarios?

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These are my scenarios. I may have too much free time but I really don't care.
Backwater Calls, Magus of Cattalon, Rats Aplenty
Get them here
Visit The Lyceum for all your rating needs.
Posts: 211 | Registered: Sunday, January 30 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #42
Poit makes a good point, albeit one that has been said before (saving the stepchild business). What we need then, is an incentive for more designers to get designing... hmm, bad wordiness.

Anyway, I believe Stareye was talking about getting Jeff to give away some prizes for another contest, and we could organise ones that allow people to knock out easy-to-make simple scenarios.

As well as this, the current atmosphere of the more-established members of the community helping us n00bs seemed to be working. TM's methid of getting us all to write out a small paragraph seemed to have worked, since lots of people answered.

The key is time, as other members have said. But give it a couple of months, and there will be more scenarios out there, and more players. We just need something to break the dryspell, which is happening already, and then hope that it encourages others to create their own stories.

Don't know how useful that was. If at all.

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And when you want to Live
How do you start?
Where do you go?
Who do you need to know?

Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 5459
Profile Homepage #43
quote:
Supanik sez:
Anyway, I believe Stareye was talking about getting Jeff to give away some prizes for another contest, and we could organise ones that allow people to knock out easy-to-make simple scenarios.
You mean like the Pearl Contest and the Short Scenario Design contest that produced EM and DaC? Those didn't go very well. Cash prices probably would help give people the extra kick they need to get started. I know that's one of the reasons I entered BC for the first contest even though I didn't think I'd win anything.

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These are my scenarios. I may have too much free time but I really don't care.
Backwater Calls, Magus of Cattalon, Rats Aplenty
Get them here
Visit The Lyceum for all your rating needs.
Posts: 211 | Registered: Sunday, January 30 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #44
quote:
Originally written by Kaartinjaakari Smoo:

You mean like the Pearl Contest and the Short Scenario Design contest that produced EM and DaC? Those didn't go very well. Cash prices probably would help give people the extra kick they need to get started. I know that's one of the reasons I entered BC for the first contest even though I didn't think I'd win anything.
Precisely. It doesn't even have to be $500 or whatever it was. But if Jeff were to give away cash/games, more people would take an interest and design, and it might just be the boost the community needs.

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And when you want to Live
How do you start?
Where do you go?
Who do you need to know?

Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #45
quote:
Originally written by Kaartinjaakari Smoo:

And by the way has there ever been anything besides a slow release pace for BoA scenarios?
Roses of Reckoning. Release date: 4/7/2004.
Babysitting. Release date: 4/30/2004.
The Cave of No Return. Release date: 6/20/2004.
Emerald Mountain. Release date: 8/10/2004.
Death at Chapman's. Release date: 8/17/2004.
A Perfect Forest. Release date: 9/5/2004.
Canopy. Release date: 12/25/2004.
Xerch'de. Release date: 12/27/2004.
Bahssikava. Release date: 2/20/2005.
Backwater Calls. Release date: 2/27/2005.
Lord Putidus. Release date: 3/29/2005.
Nine Variations on Point B. Release date: 4/7/2005.
Cresent Valley. Release date: 4/15/2005.
Undead Valley. Release date: 5/24/2005.
Druids of Krell. Release date: 6/5/2005.
A Large Rebellion. Release date: 6/6/2005.
Mad Ambition. Release date: 6/9/2005.
Nephilim Mystery. Release date: 8/2/2005.
Proving Grounds. Release date: 10/17/2005.
Magus of Cattalon. Release date: 1/8/2006.

It appears that the period between Bahssikava and Mad Ambition was the most active period for BoA (nine scenarios in four months). It appears that right now is the slowest (two scenarios in the past six months). The previously slowest period was right after the release of the game (three scenarios in five months).

It probably helped that the period between Bahs and MA was the period right before the deadline of the last contest.

[ Saturday, February 18, 2006 06:48: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 5459
Profile Homepage #46
Ah yes. I forgot about the rush of scenario before the deadline. Silly me. There is the General Scenario Design Contest. If it gets a cash price for the winner and it gets voiced out enough then maybe we'll see another rush of scenarios this November. Probably wishful thinking on my part says the negative side of me.

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These are my scenarios. I may have too much free time but I really don't care.
Backwater Calls, Magus of Cattalon, Rats Aplenty
Get them here
Visit The Lyceum for all your rating needs.
Posts: 211 | Registered: Sunday, January 30 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 3933
Profile #47
blades cannot die! i hope to get it for my birthday, march 21st, and then i will bombard you with the best scenarios you can imagine, im telling ya!

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OH MY GOD IT'S THE FUNKY ****!!!
Posts: 425 | Registered: Wednesday, January 28 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #48
quote:
Originally written by Kaartinjaakari Smoo:

. There is the General Scenario Design Contest. If it gets a cash price for the winner and it gets voiced out enough then maybe we'll see another rush of scenarios this November.
That's the one I was thinking about. If Jeff could be successfully petitioned, then it should be great for the community. Has anybody approached him yet?

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And when you want to Live
How do you start?
Where do you go?
Who do you need to know?

Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #49
Well, in our productive meeting, we spoke of the idea of asking Jeff to provide some financial backing for this contest. My idea was this:

1st prize: $100
2nd prize: $60
3rd prize: $40
4th and 5th prizes: a free game

This is about 1/5th what he offered last time, and it totals about $250 in value. Thoughts? Should we start lower than that?

Also, who ought to ask him, and how? Some have suggested that I ought to do it, but I'm not sure.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00

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