Palm Sunday
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Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
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written Friday, May 2 2003 14:50
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I would respond accordingly, but it would most likely get me banned without any hope of rejoining. All I will say is, now I see why Ikari is leaving. -------------------- And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it. -The Last Pendragon TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL Les forum de la chance. In case of emergency, break glass. Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00 |
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Member # 165
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written Friday, May 2 2003 16:43
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Theresa was a wonderful person as far as Catholic hardliners go. Overall, she did wonderfully in her life's works -- although she could have done better by being less of a fundamentalist; and it's hardly suitable to look back at someone's life works and say "They could have done better" when they did as well as she did. She was a wonderful person, but a person nonetheless. People either don't recognize this or treat it like some kind of dirty secret if they do. It's not; she had faults like anyone else. As someone's been severely offended by this line of discussion, I'd suggest we change tracks. -------------------- desperance -- je me souviens arena -- et je me souviens de vous Posts: 2449 | Registered: Monday, October 15 2001 07:00 |
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Cartographer
Member # 1851
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written Friday, May 2 2003 23:45
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No, thank you. You've done quite enough, Khoth, already. -------------------- Ah! My Homepage - In Finnish and English Geneforge - The Maps My Elfwood Gallery - Stories I've written in english The WALL - Forums in Finnish Waiting for medication. I could really use some. Posts: 1308 | Registered: Sunday, September 8 2002 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Saturday, May 3 2003 02:29
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Mainly because our religions have nothing to do with Mother Theresa. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Vahnatai Did Do It desperance.net - We're Everywhere The Arena - God Will Sort The Dead ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Saturday, May 3 2003 06:11
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I really don't see why everyone is bashing Khoth and X for highlighting some flaws in Mother Theresa's personality. You shouldn't witch-hunt people for their beliefs, you should try and bring evidence to the table that contradicts them. And the fact that you aren't, David and Ribbu (and others), leads me to believe that you can't. On another note, I agree that we need to change the subject. Too many people go up in flames over this one. -------------------- KazeArctica: "Imagine...wangs everywhere...and tentacles. Nothing but wangs and tentacles! And no pants!" Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
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written Saturday, May 3 2003 15:18
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Alec, of course she's human. No one should be offended if someone says she isn't perfect. However, the thing Khoth posted made her seem like a corrupt CEO, nto to meantion a horrible sadist. It's my opinion that the person who wrote that article was a born whiner, who wasn't happy about not being able to stuff herself 6 times a day and noticed that the organization didn't spend every dollar within a minute after recieving it, so she had to blow up her whining and pu it in public to get attention. Maybe I'm exagerrating, but it really pisses me off that whenever I say something bad about atheists I get rejected by half the board, all at once, and yet when some Spiderwebber says something horribly biased and general about Christians, specifically Catholics, they are put on a golden pedistal, complete with a 24-hour armed guard. You are so quick to believe that she was a bad person, as the article makes her look, but so loath to think that she could ever be as good as we say she is. -------------------- And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it. -The Last Pendragon TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL Les forum de la chance. In case of emergency, break glass. Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, May 3 2003 15:29
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The writer of the article knew and worked with Mother Theresa on a regular basis. You did not. Forgive me if I consider her opinion on the subject of Mother Theresa's personality and works to be more authoritative than yours. -------------------- I believe there are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 105 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe, and the same number of electrons. -- Sir Arthur Eddington Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Saturday, May 3 2003 15:46
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quote:That was not how I understood that article, when I read it. It says little to nothing about her personality in my opinion, away from stating her obedience and loyalty to the codex of her congregation, which is a traditional and sanctioned codex within monasteries. Obedience, poverty, sacrifice and the love of God above personal attachments of any kind are basic rules, as far as I know. The sister who wrote the article rebelled against those rules and against Mother Theresa only as a representative of the rules, as she says herself: quote: -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Member # 165
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written Saturday, May 3 2003 16:03
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Typically, Sir David, you are bashed when you make negative statements about atheists because you do so in a nonsensical, factless, and usually offensive way. Khoth was only citing articles. Learn to view things objectively, fool. -------------------- desperance -- je me souviens arena -- et je me souviens de vous Posts: 2449 | Registered: Monday, October 15 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 58
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written Saturday, May 3 2003 17:08
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I really don't see what the fuss is about. Khoth did put a proper disclaimer, so it seems to me that people who were going to be offended by the article clicked on the link anyway and then complained about how offensive it was. It really doesn't make too much sense. I suppose people are always looking for things to crusade about. I respect Mother Theresa. She lived a lifestyle I could probably not live. I don't know her personally, so I can't pass judgement on whether she was a good or bad person. Posts: 286 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Cartographer
Member # 2264
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written Saturday, May 3 2003 22:35
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The reason so many people bash you when you say something about atheists, or anything else, David, is because you're offensive about it, you rarely provide any sort of corroberating evidence, and when somebody disagrees with you, instead of debating, using logical arguments, you just tell them they're wrong. Religion, in particular, is something that I really feel you shouldn't debate, as you're too close-minded to be able to have a conversation about it. If you aren't even willing to accept that the other person's viewpoint might be valid, then you can't discuss it in any sort of rational way. I still remember you jumping all over me and telling me I couldn't be a Christian when I argued that I found Jehovas Witness' methods annoying and intrusive. Don't answer this when you've just read it and have to run off in five minutes. Take a little bit of time to think about it. Christianity, and most other religions, actually, boil down to a simple principle that most people teach their children before they even start school. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I've tried not to bash your religion, not always successfully, but I've at least made the attempt, whereas you seem to feel free to tell anyone who doesn't share your views that they're wrong. That's not fair, and, more to the point, it's not a Christian attitude to take. As for what started this topic, Palm Sunday is a day of contemplation for me. A day when I pause and try to think about what I personally can do to make my small section of the world a better place. It's also a day when I try to think of the one thing I like the least about myself, so that I can spend the next year trying to change it. So far it's been working on being patient with people, but I'm not getting very far, and I've been working on it for six years now. I'm thinking maybe I'll pick something else next year and give this one a rest for a while. -------------------- And the Glory of the Light did shine upon him. And the Peace of the Light did he give men. Binding nations to him. Making one of many. Yet the shards of hearts did give wounds. And what was once did come again -in fire and in storm splitting all in twain. For his peace... -for his peace... ... was the peace... ... was the peace... ... of the sword. And the Glory of the Light did shine upon him. Meane sol Ahelle Check out my Avernum 3 site. This one is incomplete, but better than the one here which is complete, sort of. Posts: 926 | Registered: Tuesday, November 19 2002 08:00 |
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Cartographer
Member # 1851
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 03:11
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You know what really bugs me in this thread? People typing my name wrong. It's Riibu, really, please. If you're gonna mention me somehow, somewhere, I'd rather you took the very small trouble to actually look at the name I use and put it in your post instead of the wrong one.. Please. quote:EDIT: Woa.. guys, I've just been reading the 'Let the White Collar Criminals go Free' topic.. because of what you mentioned Rache. You (all of you) really don't know that much about us, do you? From what I read in there, it's quite clear that you don't. I mean, you hate us for reasons that aren't even real, you hate us by knowing facts, that actually are wrong! Hmm.. Khoth is the only who knows better, and that's because we argue about it a lot. I suppose it's sort of refreshing.. to get a different point of view sometimes. [ Sunday, May 04, 2003 04:57: Message edited by: Riibu ] -------------------- Ah! My Homepage - In Finnish and English Geneforge - The Maps My Elfwood Gallery - Stories I've written in english The WALL - Forums in Finnish Waiting for medication. I could really use some. Posts: 1308 | Registered: Sunday, September 8 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 05:23
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By "us" what do you mean, exactly? Catholics? Americans? Fundies? I have nothing against Catholics, just the Catholic Church (their banning of contraception, in my view, is responsible for countless deaths to AIDs in Africa). I have nothing against Americans, just the American government (something which I think most of the world's population dislikes). Fundies...well, yes, you've got me there. I am generally prejudiced against fundamentalists, because of their literal taking of the Bible, hatred of homosexuals, abortionists and atheists (or, as fundies like to call us, Satan-worshpiers). I don't know if you are any of those, but since you associate yourself with David, I presume you're one of them, Riibu . -------------------- KazeArctica: "Imagine...wangs everywhere...and tentacles. Nothing but wangs and tentacles! And no pants!" Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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Cartographer
Member # 1851
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 05:31
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Hmm? I not any of those, sorry. I'm a Jehova's Witness :P . And you don't know that much about us. Maybe it's time this board gets some serious converting... (I'm kidding. Really.) But it was a sad thing to read the old topic. Anyways, I don't want this topic to turn into an arguement, so let's just accept the fact that I believe in what I believe. I've fought for it quite enough. [ Sunday, May 04, 2003 05:32: Message edited by: Riibu ] -------------------- Ah! My Homepage - In Finnish and English Geneforge - The Maps My Elfwood Gallery - Stories I've written in english The WALL - Forums in Finnish Waiting for medication. I could really use some. Posts: 1308 | Registered: Sunday, September 8 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 05:36
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Well, from what I know of Jehovah's Witnesses: You believe that there is a cap on the number of people who can enter heaven. You refuse blood transfusions (the logic behind this, sadly escapes me). Jehovah's Witnesses, with the possible exception of Mormons, are the most intrusive in their converting methods. You believe that the Bible is to be taken literally. How am I doing so far? Personally, I have very little respect for Jehovah's Witnesses, ever since the story I read about a child of a Witness being forced to refuse blood, and thus dying. -------------------- KazeArctica: "Imagine...wangs everywhere...and tentacles. Nothing but wangs and tentacles! And no pants!" Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 05:39
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I'm just wondering how long it will take for this topic to get converted (to being dead). to Morgan - Hm. There are quite a lot of doctors who would have gone through with the transfusion anyway and just dealt with the inevitable lawsuit - it's most likely that they would win, anyway, if the person in question was a child. Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Cartographer
Member # 1851
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 06:06
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144000 only go to heaven, yes. Those who don't go, eventually get (darn, I need a good dictionary) resurrected and then they get to live in paradise, on earth, forever. Happily. The rest just cease to exist.. there's no hell and we certainly don't believe in it. The blood thing.. well, from what I can translate from my bible (my english is getting worse and worse by the minute): Blood transfusions insult the sacrity of blood. We aren't allowed to eat blood either. I really don't have an excellent answer to that one, I'm afraid. I'm sorry about that. I really can't answer in any way to that. I suppose it really can be nasty trying to just live on without the constant buggering we sometimes do. I don't think it's like that in here, Finland though. I've never heard of anyone actually doing such things you're previously said about. Well, the bible is.. well, I'm sre you've heard it. I only know how to say it Finnish and this darn dictionary over here has no good answers at all. And I've never heard of such story. Could you maybe tell it whole, or even what is like? -------------------- Ah! My Homepage - In Finnish and English Geneforge - The Maps My Elfwood Gallery - Stories I've written in english The WALL - Forums in Finnish Waiting for medication. I could really use some. Posts: 1308 | Registered: Sunday, September 8 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2669
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 06:18
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If I remember this right, the blood transfusion thing was actually about a Christian Scientist, which are a little more hardcore about some of their views. A friend of mine is a Witness, and he explained to me that his father needed some transfusions for an upcoming surgery. He had blood withdrawn before the surgery, and then had it re-injected during the procedure. So it's not about the transfusion itself, but about whose blood runs in your veins. Also, the adult Witnesses that come around here bother me a lot less than those uniform-wearing buzz-cut sporting mormon boys. I sometimes question their free will in what they're doing. [ Sunday, May 04, 2003 06:22: Message edited by: RentBoy ] -------------------- ... Posts: 647 | Registered: Wednesday, February 19 2003 08:00 |
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Cartographer
Member # 1851
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 06:22
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Umm.. no. It isn't that. He really did? Oh, hmm, that's bad. Definitely bad. Ouch. No, it isn't okay even when it's your blood. It doesn't matter who's it is. It's wrong. -------------------- Ah! My Homepage - In Finnish and English Geneforge - The Maps My Elfwood Gallery - Stories I've written in english The WALL - Forums in Finnish Waiting for medication. I could really use some. Posts: 1308 | Registered: Sunday, September 8 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 07:39
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I'm no Bible scholar, but doesn't the Old Testament say somewhere that saving a life is the overriding duty of every person? It seems to me that being transfused with your own blood is a minor defilement, if it's a defilement at all, when compared to the sacredness of a life. However, I can see that the Bible can be interpreted in many, many ways, and what I see as passive suicide isn't anything I can really protest as long as it is a decision you make for yourself. What bothers me is the intrusive proselytizing. I believe in the privacy of my own home, and door-to-door missionaries invade that privacy. —Alorael, who also believes the child was a Christian Scientist. His great-grandmother was a Christian Scientist, too, and during his lifetime she began to have medical problems which of course could not be medically adressed until she became to sick to protest when her grandchildren took her to the hospital unwillingly. And despite her lack of willingness, her church excommunicated her. Nice people, Christian Scientists. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 07:53
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quote:I really hope you didn't mean that. Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Cartographer
Member # 1851
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 07:55
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Nah :) . I was just joking. -------------------- Ah! My Homepage - In Finnish and English Geneforge - The Maps My Elfwood Gallery - Stories I've written in english The WALL - Forums in Finnish Waiting for medication. I could really use some. Posts: 1308 | Registered: Sunday, September 8 2002 07:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 07:56
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So buggering (as opposed to bugging) was the word you were trying to use? :/ Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 08:08
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Imban, your slang expressions are sometimes used in non-english speaking countries with a different meaning and different associations. Any young girl here would tell you that a boy 'buggered mich an', when she wanted to say that the boy was interested. I don't know about Finland though. -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Sunday, May 4 2003 08:10
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Buggered is mostly British, anyway. Which I am not, despite Feran's accusations :P Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |