Avernum 4 - 7.63 (10.0/1.0)

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AuthorTopic: Avernum 4 - 7.63 (10.0/1.0)
Infiltrator
Member # 5132
Profile Homepage #0
Yup, rating topic!

It had one before, but it was never really updated, plus let's see how it goes with some new members that weren't around before. I'll also bump the others back up soon to allow people who weren't around when we created the rating topics a chance to rate SW's games (and see if people's previous perceptions changed). I'm tempted to do a G4 topic, but it's only been out for windows for two weeks, so it's probably too early.

(For those of you who aren't familiar with this, you rate the game from 1-10, 10 being the best. Just like BoE/BoA scenarios on CSR.)

I haven't played A4 yet, so I can't rate it.

[ Wednesday, February 21, 2007 04:09: Message edited by: BainIhrno ]

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Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #1
7.4.

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I tried to think of something witty to put here.

Needless to say, I failed.
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5754
Profile #2
7.2
Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 8073
Profile #3
8.92345678697049568305869303

I can't believe people are rating on a decimal system. Is your opinion really so refined as to warrant a 7.4. I would like to see your calculation.

As a point of procedure, you really should have an odd number of available ratings say 0-10 or 1-9. This way if one is truly on the fence or indifferent, one can pick the median and express this indifference. In the present scheme does there are 10 possible ratings, forcing someone rating the game to be either go one way or the other or rate it 5.5.

8 (in a system with 1-9 as possible ratings)
9 (in a system as suggested 1-10)
Posts: 32 | Registered: Tuesday, February 13 2007 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #4
I give it a G flat.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

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Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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Not nearly as bad as people here make it out to be. Going from best to worst: the engine was mostly excellent, but with a few really putrid elements. Game balance was good. Combat alternated between interesting and debilitating. The atmosphere wasn't great. The plot was completely deplorable.

As somebody said, a good game but a very bad Avernum game. With a different setting it might have been an 8.3.

Better than G2 and G3 because of game balance, but worse than the other original games else because of plot (and atmosphere). Fun despite the plot, just not always engaging. I think I'd rather play it than A3 (given E3). 7.8.

EDIT: What kind of cruel joke is this that you revive Homeland but not Nethergate?!?

[ Friday, February 16, 2007 10:53: Message edited by: Slartanalycyst ]

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
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I've played, but didn't get immersed in it enough to believe my rating might not be fair.
In any case, for precedence, and to see how the score can be thoughtfully achieved, visit The Lyceum
Now for the rating:

The size, coding quality and lack of glitches, were big factors in the enjoyability. The game was professionally done. I thought the double layer of the cave 'surface' and then the 'warrens' beneath it, were a good idea, and could have seen wider implementation.

On the other hand, the plot wasn't immersive to me, the boss was the same boss as in III, as big as it was, it once more restricted the player from the outside, while not opening any new lands. It basically went back to the size of I, with some additions. The plot was fairly linear, without so many side paths that I remember which often is what made the game fun and immersive to me. It was extremely combat intensive, involving extensive slogs through pylons and brutal fortresses. Beyond all that, I still miss the Exile engine, so I'm rather biased.

All of this is just player preference though. On the things that aren't according to preference it was flawless.

I'll rate it a 7.5 (and that’s 3 out of 4 if you want simplicity).

Edit: Spelling

[ Friday, February 16, 2007 10:56: Message edited by: Macrsp ]

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"Let's just say that if complete and utter chaos was lightning, he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are false'."
Posts: 564 | Registered: Wednesday, April 14 2004 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #7
I'll give it the highest possible rating, 10, partially because I started a thread in which I defended it from just about every other member on this board, and partially because I have the hots for Rentar.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #8
4.0

This game was not fun. I tried to like it. I really did. But I only made it to Fort Draco before I gave up (and it took me about a month to get that far). There were probably good things (the shades, divine retribution, combat more interesting than goblins and nephilim) about it, but I never got that far. Two things killed my enjoyment:

1. The encumbrance/inventory system combined with the "seamless world." It took forever to get back to town to drop stuff off and heal up. And I was always having to drop stuff at the beginning of every combat. It was just tedious. I could have gotten used to it or built future parties differently except that...

2. The game didn't motivate me at all. I never cared that Avernum was in danger or wanted to find out what happened next. Whether because of a boring plot, it taking place in Avernum-but-not-really-Avernum, or because of something else entirely, it just wasn't interesting.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #9
Diki, I'm actually the most impatient person ever when it comes to things like what you described. My advice: cheat. I'm not even kidding, it will increase your enjoyment if your having problems with tediousness. You should at least finish the game so you know who the Darkside Loyalists are for Avernum 5.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6821
Profile #10
quote:
Originally written by The Dikiyora:

[QB]4.0But I only made it to Fort Draco before I gave up (and it took me about a month to get that far).[QB]
A month? Wow. :P

Anyway...

The plot, while predictable, isn't nearly as bad as people say, as least in my opinion. I rather liked the shades, Dorikas, and Ghall-Ihrno.
Graphics were very cool at times. I found the vahnatai spellcasters to be especially well done.
The gameplay... was very different from that of other Avernums, no doubt. Anyway, the combat was really fun at times, especially bosses such as Dorikas or Nociduas. Dungeons ranged from 'supercool' to 'long and tedious'. The chitrach plague was just plain boring, IMHO. The teleporting feature was welcome. I loved the adventurers' tests as well.
Overall, it had some very fun parts, but it could have been much better had some parts been shorter.

8.4

On an unrelated note, I downloaded Geneforge 4, and it's in my opinion Spiderweb's best game (EDIT : not counting Blades of Exile), even though I haven't bought it yet; I really enjoyed the demo and I intend to buy the full game soon.

[ Friday, February 16, 2007 15:21: Message edited by: The Lurker ]
Posts: 363 | Registered: Wednesday, February 22 2006 08:00
Agent
Member # 2759
Profile Homepage #11
Avernum 4.

The first time I played this game, I found it really disappointing and quite boring. Turrets, yawn; pylons, yawn; Rentar wants revenge again, yawn. In fact, after the chitrach queen, I really don't know how I managed to carry on to the end. I then put it away and didn't play at all for 9 months.

However, playing a second time - this time knowing what to expect - was much more fun, and I started to engage more with the engine, experimenting to make the combat less tedious. Fortunately the game does get a lot better when you leave the eastern gallery. The Darkside Loyalists are fun. I liked the mage with the pet slimes. You get to fight in the spire arena again. Divine Retribution is a seriously good spell.

Overall, with hindsight, I rate it 7.

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"I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius

Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
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quote:
Originally written by Slartanalycyst:

As somebody said, a good game but a very bad Avernum game.
That was me. Accordingly, 7.9.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Councilor
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Originally by Emperor Tullegolar:

quote:
You should at least finish the game so you know who the Darkside Loyalists are for Avernum 5.
The Darkside Loyalists are a group of Empire agents led by led by Dorikas (who teleports to safety before your party can kill him) and based in the ruins of Erika's Fortress who are causing problems for Avernum because they don't like the fact that Avernum and their precious Empire are cooperating. Is that close enough?

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #14
Well, there is the bit about how they hate Prazac's liberal rule and want a return to life under the Hawthornes. But knowing Jeff, that will get recapped in a clickable tome somewhere early on.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
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I like A4 less than A3. Significantly less, in fact. I think a lot of it is engine nostalgia combined with subpar plot, though, and even A3's wasn't much. I guess A4 merits a 7.2 in the end for improved gameplay with nothing else to go with it.

—Alorael, who thinks maybe he was too harsh with A3. An 8.0 or more would really be more fair, and then A4 could get a 7.5 or 7.6. But he's made his decision and he'll stick with it.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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I don't remember what I rated it last time so I'll give it a 7.

Great game engine, but the plot was a rerun of A3 and I really missed the elevations. Don't even want to think about all the Geneforge graphics.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Law Bringer
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8.0 - For saving the company and excellent combat challenges, but a letdown plot and engine.

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Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
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quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

Is that close enough?
You can't truly know your enemy until you've faced them in battle.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
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Profile #19
Dikiyoba - I'm shocked that you took so long to get to Fort Draco. I did it in less than a week and I started over several times to tweak my party as I got used to the changes. I can do it now in less than 8 hours with plenty of time spent hauling back loot and clearing areas for Fort Draco quests before I get them.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Councilor
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Originally by Emperor Tullegolar:

quote:
You can't truly know your enemy until you've faced them in battle.
Then your philosophizing and sharing of opinions is ultimately worthless. We won't understand the brilliance of your vision until we meet you on the battlefield... and promptly beat the snot out of you. :P

Originally by Randomizer:

quote:
Dikiyoba - I'm shocked that you took so long to get to Fort Draco.
That's because Dikiyoba would play for twenty minutes, get bored, quit, not touch it for two or three days, decide to give it another try, play for twenty minutes...

[ Friday, February 16, 2007 20:54: Message edited by: The Dikiyora ]
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
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I've said it in other threads, and I'll say it here as well. Avernum 4 was an atrocity. If another gaming company (EA Games) had produced Avernum 4, I would merely label it as trash.

However, the fact that it was produced by Jeff Vogel, a game designer who created (from scratch) innovative games such as the original Geneforge and Exile, just makes Avernum 4 a huge disappointment. Geneforge 3 is a gem compared to the steaming pile of dog turd known as Avernum 4.

I'd argue that Homeland is preferrable. At least it doesn't attempt to disguise itself as a half-decent game. Upon starting up Homeland and playing for a record 5 minutes, I realized that it was a flop.

On the other hand, Avernum 4 has supposed 'updates' to the engine, which apparently make it 'superior'. Too bad that those updates are merely veneer, which fail to cover the fact that Avernum 4 is merely the same old recycled crap from the past three games, but without the atmosphere, innovation or excitement.

Off the top of my head, my gripes include:

- Piss weak plot. Ooh, Avernum is being attacked, AGAIN.

- Predictability. I don't NEED to play until the end to know who the Darkside Loyalists are. Anyone which even the slightest measure of sentience immediately knows that Rentar is the bad girl.

- Repetitiveness. I'm sick of having to raid the caves near Metris to clear out undead. I'm sick of brigands in the Abyss. I'm sick of Sliths to the west.

- Lack of atmosphere

- Boring spell system. The spell system in Avernum was a notch down from Exile, but at least there was motivation to learn spells at level 3.

- Boring combat.

- Shocking interface and controls. Jeff really needs to consider alternatives to 'point click point click', so that his gamers don't contract RSI and end up unable to play the sequel.

Avernum 4 is the only Spiderweb game (apart from Homeland... naturally) which I have not finished, and never will. There is no way in hell I am going to subject myself to such torture. Any game which cannot motivate me into playing it until the end is clearly a failure.

That's why I'm giving Avernum 4 the prestigious score of 0/10. I'm a Spiderweb veteran, and I'm pissed off to the extent that many Star Wars fans were pissed off with the Phantom Menace.

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6821
Profile #22
Hey, wait. If this is a CSR-like rating topic, you have to give it a 1.0.

...Though it will be up to BainIhrno to decide whether 0.0 is a valid rating.
Posts: 363 | Registered: Wednesday, February 22 2006 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #23
I could rate this down, if it were not for these points: I bashed it like no tomorrow back in the day even though I can actually enjoy myself playing it, Jeff said he needed to make something that sells, and I rated even Homeland 2.5.

However, it does make an almost unforgivable error in combining Avernum's lack of walking animations with Geneforge's point and click movement, and it also does away with Avernum's graphics and elevations.

7.7.

Edit: ...and with the concept of an original storyline, if we need to name the obvious.

[ Wednesday, February 21, 2007 02:32: Message edited by: The Sorcerer ]

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8.5 - For keeping me occupied for a week.
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