"Policing" ourselves?
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
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written Thursday, April 20 2006 18:36
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MySpace foils school shooting quote:This is no freedom of spech issue, imho, or do you think the guys were framed? [ Thursday, April 20, 2006 18:55: Message edited by: Yet another procrastinator ] -------------------- The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference. Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies. (not mine) Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3441
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written Thursday, April 20 2006 18:43
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I never realized that the Columbine shootings were on 4/20. -------------------- "As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein -------------------- Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Thursday, April 20 2006 18:53
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I haven't heard of this incident before now. However, I have heard cases about underage teenagers getting caught because they post pictures of themselves drinking at parties on MySpace. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3441
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written Thursday, April 20 2006 18:55
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My sister is an RA at her college, and she told me that the campus security officers join sites like this to look out for parties and such. -------------------- "As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein -------------------- Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Thursday, April 20 2006 18:57
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The question is how can they stop this from happening in the future? The kids already had guns, and were a day away from pulling off their crazy scheme. If they hadn't given themselves away then this article would be very different. Edit: About people getting caught drinking etc.- Why is it that whenever someone breaks the rules they have to either take a picture of themselves doing it, or tell many people about it? [ Thursday, April 20, 2006 19:00: Message edited by: Lazarus. ] -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
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written Thursday, April 20 2006 19:05
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I am not sure in my assessment that this is on topic but how would you react to a Nazi thread -------------------- The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference. Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies. (not mine) Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Thursday, April 20 2006 19:09
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quote:Most people are inherently stupid. Read H. Beam Piper's "Day of the Moron" if you want an example. They just don't think about what they are doing. I've had friends that made my school's Police Beat news column. Some boasted when they weren't named because they got away and only the crime was reported. The police are just taking advantage of technology. Besides sipping coffee and eating doughnuts while surfing the net beats having to walk a beat to get information. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Thursday, April 20 2006 19:21
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Well its always easier to wait for kids to turn themselves in, which happens quite often. Myspace and online messaging just makes it easier. You wouldn't believe how often people get busted for drinking because they brag about parties where teachers can hear. Theres pretty much no other way that a school could learn about such things unless either students were arrested, or parents complain. -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
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written Thursday, April 20 2006 22:01
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quote:What about if you read a Nazi-thread? Do you trust that the net-watch police takes care of it - or the moderators guild? Not all forums have the manpower to be moderated as closely as spidweb, e.g. the single-handed mod/admin might be cut off from the internet for a week. Calling the police might be a little overreaction or what do you think? [ Thursday, April 20, 2006 22:06: Message edited by: Yet another procrastinator ] -------------------- The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference. Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies. (not mine) Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Thursday, April 20 2006 23:19
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Net policing works in a hierarchical structure. There is no need to alert the police or Homeland Security - if there is questionable content, it should be reported to the mods, admins, owner and host in that order. As in law, issues are only taken to the next higher instance if one authority fails to resolve it. If these levels are bypassed, the result is controversy. Assuming that the lower instances have already failed to deal with the matter (when in reality they were not even alerted yet), the authority that is reported to will be heavy-handed. Topics are deleted, admins or moderators fired, hosting accounts suspended or homes raided. Edit: As for the manpower, moderators and admins are recruited from the active community. If a board grows too large to handle for the current number of admins or mods, more are appointed. If there are not enough members to appoint as moderators, there are probably not enough members to cause trouble either. Regarding the legal aspect, the law (in Germany; but it seems likely this goes for the US too) assumes that the owner of a community is able to manage it by himself or otherwise find members to appoint as moderators. From memory: In a recent case involving the forum of the German publisher heise, the publisher was forced to guarantee that questionable content would be removed without delay. Objections about the logistics were overruled, because a forum owner is always responsible for policing the community. If the community is too large to manage, it has to be trimmed - impossible as that is in practice - or closed. [ Thursday, April 20, 2006 23:31: Message edited by: Kuranes- ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
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written Thursday, April 20 2006 23:44
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Amen. BTW, I also prefer you to police us rather than the CIA - the custom titles are at least open for everyone to see unlike the CIA-tags. [ Thursday, April 20, 2006 23:50: Message edited by: Yet another procrastinator ] -------------------- The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference. Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies. (not mine) Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Thursday, April 20 2006 23:55
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Who are you adressing with "you"? I do not give out custom titles. Also, the CIA doesn't investigate individuals usually. That's the NSA or the DHS... -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
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written Friday, April 21 2006 00:29
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quote:I counted you as one of the spidweb establishment, as they appear as a homogeneous block to the very infrequent lurker. quote:How do you know? Forgive me for not distinguishing between the various 3-letter agencies. I was concentrating on avoiding four-letter words. [ Friday, April 21, 2006 00:33: Message edited by: Yet another procrastinator ] -------------------- The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference. Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies. (not mine) Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
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written Friday, April 21 2006 00:34
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quote:? -------------------- ??? ?????? ???? ????? Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Friday, April 21 2006 00:40
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That Nazi thread makes me sick. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
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written Friday, April 21 2006 02:24
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Why don't you join in order to express your point of view? -------------------- ??? ?????? ???? ????? Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Friday, April 21 2006 08:25
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quote:Because arguing with fascists is a completely useless activity. Nothing a Jew says will change anybody's mind on whether Jews are trying to take over the world. When somebody says "Hitler wasn't such a bad guy", or "Zionists are resonsible for 9/11", he makes his position very clear and continuing the argument will only give him more excuses to preach his cause. And that's just if the person is really preaching his views. If instead he is trying to draw attention away from something (derailing UN conference on racism, making most civil wars and ethnic cleansings lose headline space to "more shots fired in Israel, 3 people injured", etc.) you'll just be playing into his hand by helping him move the argument to Jews away from whatever he is trying to draw attention away from. -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Friday, April 21 2006 08:39
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Besides, my guess is that every "Nazi" in that thread is OM. He probably only wanted to restart TCoA to piss off Drakey and Alorael. (It was OM who decided to hate Alorael for no reason, right? Or was that someone else?) I'm considering joining just to post the lyrics to A.C.'s "Hitler Was A Sensitive Man". Aran, I recommend just deleting the whole forum. You know OM isn't going to stop. -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Friday, April 21 2006 08:50
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I agree with ADoS, Aran. I'm all for free speech, but malicious attempts to harass other people are something else entirely. People should be able to discuss this stuff, but there are already plenty of forums on the internet for that; this discussion is clearly not intended to be intellectual but just for harassment. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Friday, April 21 2006 09:06
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quote:Is "OM" Archmagus Michael? quote:Either I totally didn't get this post, or he is agreeing that modern-day Jews are worse than Hitler. PS I wouldn't delete this forum. You can't shut down every nazi forum on the Internet and it's good to know what some Spidweb members think. EDIT: I agree that hosting a Nazi forum is bad. I just like this opportunity to find out who the Nazis on these boards are. (I am disturbed, but not really surprized to find out that there are at least a couple.) [ Friday, April 21, 2006 09:22: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Friday, April 21 2006 09:12
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OM is Order Mage. I know you can't delete every Nazi forum on the Web, but I think it would be a wise decision not to actively host them, would it not? [ Friday, April 21, 2006 09:15: Message edited by: The Almighty Do-er of Stuff ] -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 4506
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written Friday, April 21 2006 09:28
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quote:I'm NOT a Nazi. I was just saying that now we are more educated about what actually happened. While the war was going on, people weren't quite sure what was going on. The post makes far more sense in Topic. I'm just saying that nowadays, some of the pointless things Jews do are fresher in our minds, and that's what we notice. I'm in no way excusing Hitler or what he did. What he did was terrible, but what some Jews are doing now is wrong. They're both wrong, maybe Hitler a bit more, but we've all had 50 years to decide that. What's happening now we can't talk about as unbiasedly. - Archmagus Micael Besides, as far as I can see, this is the only thread about Nazis on the TCoA. -------------------- "You dare Trifle with Avernum?" ~ Erika the Archmage -------------------- My Scenarios: Undead Valley : A small Undead problem, what could possibly go wrong? -------------------- Richard Black - PROOF of his existance (the Infernal one's website). -------------------- MY FORUM! Randomosity at it's highest! :) Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 5969
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written Friday, April 21 2006 09:47
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Well, for one thing, I can say that I'm never visiting TCoA again. >>;;; What, are the Jews wrong in establishing a country where they can live without being persecuted? When Israel was founded, it didn't look like there was anywhere else that fit that description. It's not as if the land already belonged to someone else and they took it– what is now Israel didn't belong to anyone. It used to be part of the Ottoman Empire, then came under British control when the Ottoman Empire fell. There is no "Palestinian" nationality whose people were displaced by the creation of Israel. Nobody really wanted that land (it's really just a tiny piece of desert with no oil or other valuable resources) until Israel was established, and now it's only being fought over because Israel's neighbours want the Jews out. Israel has taken several steps (like the much-maligned fence) toward security against terrorists, because they really need to– wouldn't you be worried about your citizens if people were attacking pizza parlors and buses to kill Jews, just because they hated Jews? Wouldn't you want to defend yourself? How is that wrong? -------------------- A C, an E-flat, and a G walk into the Tower of the Magi. Ambrin walks up to them and says, "Hey! It's the Triad!" Kelner snorts and says, "Pretty minor Triad if you ask me." Posts: 242 | Registered: Thursday, June 16 2005 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Friday, April 21 2006 10:06
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quote:"...Thay're both wrong, maybe Hitler a bit more..." ?! "a bit more" ?! Oh yes, all those gas chambers the Jews are building for "the final solution" to the "Palestinian Problem". Considering that Jews killed more civilians in last couple of years than anybody else in the world (and if you believe that, check out casualty numbers for Iraq, or Sudan, or any of the conflicts that didn't make the headlines), it's no wonder they are the ones compared to Hitler. After all, as we recently found out, thanks to some corageous professors, everything from 9/11 attacks to Iraq War is the fault of the Zionist lobby. So it's quite obvious that the ones whom you should be compairing to Hitler are Jews, rather than Arab government of Sudan, or Christian governments of Britain and USA. [/sarcasm] The second problem with comparison between Jews and Hitler is that it encourages sentiments like this (from Tyranicus): quote:Am I the only person here who thinks that murdering millions of people in an attempt to wipe out an ethnicity is more than just "a social blunder"?! Hitler had been villified too much? How would you feel if somebody tried to wipe out all people of your ethnicity and succeded in "purifying" north America? If most of the people you know had some (sometimes distant, sometimes close) relative killed on that person's orders? The difference between "genocide" and "aggression against civilians" is as big as the difference between a single murder and destroying a city with a nuclear bomb. And even in the "aggression against civilians" category, there are plenty of peoples who should be listed ahead of Jews, unless Jews have a special place in your heart. [ Friday, April 21, 2006 10:19: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Friday, April 21 2006 10:18
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I knew, as soon as I started hosting people, that I would someday be in a situation where I got in trouble for user-created content. Although the "trouble" so far is just controversy, it is probably best to nip it in the bud. ADoS: If your advice involves deleting forums for containing a topic, I don't need it. That's the kind of logic that had Spiderweb at the brink of oblivion six weeks ago. OM did not start the forum in order to troll. It is possible that the thread had that purpose, but anything beyond that is ridiculous. OM: I am hosting your board, and what is more, I am doing it for free. I knew when I agreed to host a Spiderweb satellite that there would be things one would avoid reading while a boss or mother is looking over one's shoulder. Still, I ask that you show some consideration in using this service I provide you with. --- Conclusion: Censorship pains us all. To some of us, freedom of speech is so important that we would rather post on a forum where most discussions involve genitals than have it be censored. I would like to think that I oppose censorship, as well. I would also like to think that I am not providing yet another online source of racism - even when it is done only as flamebait -, and a reason to equate antisemitism with criticism of Israel's foreign policy. As a compromise, I will close the thread and move it to a non-public forum, just like we do with questionable topics here on Spiderweb. Pending further input, it can be deleted entirely or returned to public view (but remain closed). I hope this incident will not repeat itself. -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |