Kissing a girl
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Warrior
Member # 6347
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 03:53
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quote:Having an affair—even if you truly love the person you have an affair with—is still an act of treachery. As such, overall, even if love is involved, it's not truly an act of love. Because whatever love you may be showing to one, you lack for the other. -------------------- "Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00 |
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La Canaliste
Member # 5563
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:45
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*has been rocked to her socks by some of this thread* Alex, that was really brave and honest. I am glad that your posthas been treated with such maturity by so many subsequent posters. Many of us, myself included, struggle with the literal hardline interpretation of faith matters. Fortunately none of my struggles have driven me to a position where I've been condemned. That doesn't mean I'm proud of a lot of things I've done, and places where I've gone wrong. As has been pointed out above, if you believe in a god of love, rather than majoring on the condemnatory lakes of brimstone aspects, then you may find it easier not only to forgive your own humanity but that of other people. -------------------- I am a pale shadow of the previous self. quote: Deep down, you know you should have voted for Alcritas! Posts: 387 | Registered: Tuesday, March 1 2005 08:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 08:19
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quote:I'd agree with the first thing, but not the second. A load of unnecessary pain is not an unusual state of affairs. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. desperance.net - Don't follow this link Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6347
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 08:31
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quote:It may not be unusual, but what I'm saying is that it doesn't have to be that way. I don't want to get too deep into it, because then I'd be getting into the complexities and karmic-cause-and-effect of how I see the world, which could take quite a while. So if you rather, just stick with the first line. I stand by the second, though. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm right. ;) But as far as personal opinion goes, I'm a believer of the whole "you reap what you sow" thing... what gets confusing is that so much of it is done on a subconscious/unconscious level. So most of the time, we don't even know what we sowed, so that when reaping time comes around, a common reaction is "Wtf? Where'd that come from?". And I maintain that this applies as much to the positive as to the negative. -------------------- "Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00 |
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Cartographer
Member # 1851
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 09:01
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Okay, I know this is kind of a late reply, but Alex, I'd like to say one more thing to you. Granted, I don't know exactly how things in your religion work, but I'm pretty sure that they're not very.. well, much different from how they work with Witnesses, so in this matter remember that you do not have to trust only yourself with what you want to do. You can and should trust also God. That's what religion's about, too. Not being alone in this world. Having a rewarding relationship to God, and you know what? That relationship works both ways, so... :) -------------------- "Son--err," her father said, "I mean... Daughter, I give you your first and only sword. Use it for with skill for great villainy." Nanoisms Ooh! Homepage - Blog - Geneforge, +2, +3 - My Elfwood Gallery - WannabeCool Forums So many strange ones around. Don't you think? Posts: 1308 | Registered: Sunday, September 8 2002 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 09:25
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I'll expand it a bit, then: "You often get more or less what you paid for, but there are a lot of scammers out there who will take a lot and give you back only snake oil." -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. desperance.net - Don't follow this link Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6347
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 09:37
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quote:And what I'm saying is that... yes and no. Nothing escapes from karma. But hey, if you've brought it upon yourself, not much you can do but swallow the snake oil. ~shrugs~ Or another way of putting it, I guess: Yes, there are scammers etc. And they'll reap their own sowing in their own time. But how they affect you depends on what you do. You can get ripped off. It can happen. And the effects can range from mild annoyance to full-out rage/sadness/despair/pain/whatever. But in the end, you're still only reaping what you sow. Karm (or whatever else you want to call it... I hate labels. I know many of you will say "Wtf, karma, I don't believe in that ****", so I'm loathe to use the word, but I can't think of a better one right now. Sorry)--karma works both ways. It's like having a bank card with a credit limit. You can have some (karmic) savings, and you can have some (karmic) debt. If you get scammed by a scammer and you don't deserve it—or really, if anything happens to you that you didn't deserve—, that goes directly into your savings. On the other hand, maybe you got screwed by the scammer cuz you had debts that had to be paid off. And sometimes it works in strange ways. Like, you didn't need to get screwed by the scammer... maybe you had some good karma coming that could have cancelled the debt. But maybe that good karma had other things in store for you. I'll give you another example: It's as if your unconscious/subconscious had your bank/credit card. And sure, it could deposit your paycheck (new good karma, whatever) into your account and pay off your debts, but maybe it wants to buy you a 60" plasma screen TV instead. So it has to find another way of paying off your debts so that it can use your paycheck for something else. ... Am I making sense? I'm not asking if you agree with me or not; that's entirely up to you. But do you ("you" as in, anybody who's reading this and vaguely cares) understand what I'm saying? Cuz I'm having a hard time explaining it, and I feel as though I'm really losing my thread of explanation. :( -------------------- "Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 10:02
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You're right, I don't believe in karma. I reckon if you want the world to be fair, you have to make it fair yourself. I'd like to add that most of the scammers I have in mind are too metaphorical for karma to really apply to them, although I suppose you could try. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. desperance.net - Don't follow this link Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 10:05
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quote:You could still reconsile the two opinions: Good things you have to work for; bad things are free. :) [ Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:06: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6347
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 12:33
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quote:That's why I said karma was a bad word. It's more like cause-and-effect. You make your own karma. All I'm implying is that our actions—the way we lead our lives—determines the direction our lives take. It's karma, in the sense that what goes around comes around. But it's also very base cause-and-effect. Which is primal and simple. And it works just as well with the metaphorical. ;) But if you're an atheist, I won't be able to convince you. So I won't try. quote:I'd still say you "earn" the bad things... they're just a lot easier to earn. :D -------------------- "Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 12:55
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It sounds like you're taking two different things and mangling them together. There's the "your actions have consequences" and "your actions affect the sort of person you are", that even atheists can agree with. And then there's the mystic credit card keeping track of your actions and affecting the consequences, which gives it the "spiritual" air but the importance of which you would almost certainly play down almost to nothing if pressed on the hows and whys. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. desperance.net - Don't follow this link Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6347
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 13:33
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quote:I -am- mashing them together. And I -am- talking about something mystical. I could try to explain the hows and whys, but that would take a long time and probably not help much. I'm just sharing personal opinion. Giving my perspective on the topic, nothing more. By no means am I saying this is the absolute truth; I could be completely wrong. But this is what my life experiences up to this point have led me to believe. In a nutshell, I mash them together like this: Your actions have consequences (scientific) and one of these consequences is affecting who/what you are and what happens in your life (mystical). -------------------- "Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 13:53
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No, do tell. Being specific never hurt anyone. How do your actions affect what happens in your life apart from in a normal nonmystical cause-and-effect way? -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. desperance.net - Don't follow this link Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3364
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 14:05
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tSynergy - Your descriptions are much like what I have always thought heaven to be like. The reason I say it is too libral is because this is not heaven. Sin runs rampant and while what you describe would be ideal, it would also be misused. In the name of love pedifiles would seduce children, fathers their daughters, mothers their sons. This state of perfect love and selflessness you describe I see as only being possible to achieve after the second coming. As long as the devil is free to tempt us and the sinful nature plagues us there will never be enough trust for this to be a true reality. Something to personally strive for to be sure, though. I agree that there can be no sin in perfect selfless love. -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 14:21
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Sin is a word used to describe actions that an individual finds distasteful. Actions are not inherently evil, it is merely the reaction of the onlooker. *this message sponsored by teh devil* Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6347
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 15:48
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quote:I can't answer that properly without writing a bigger post than you've ever seen. And I'm not prepared to do that. Even then, I'd probably fail. So instead, I'll just give a "short" explanation, which you won't understand and will disagree with. But that's life. And it'll no doubt be too big as it is. But hey, you asked for it. I'll write it as though it's fact. What I mean by this is that I won't add "I believe" or "I think" or "in my opinion" after every three words. That goes without saying; what follows is nothing more than a personal opinion. I don't expect anyone to believe me or agree. Warning: Many of you will call me crazy and/or a heretic after reading this. So if you think you might, please don't read. I don't want flames. I'll be stating some core, very personal beliefs of mine which might seem cold and heartless to some. ... Existence, as we know it, is illusion. We are beings of matter, mind, and spirit. Matter is... matter. The physical. You all know what matter is. I won't say more on that. Spirit is our link to the universal energies, what some call God, whatever name they may wish to give to this god. It is the Infinite. It is the All, the One. Mind is what happens when Matter (this particular, present incarnation of our beings) meets Spirit. Think of Matter as you and Spirit as the world. Mind is the horizon; the extent of the Infinite that our five basic senses in this incarnation can perceive and assimilate. On that thin line of horizon, consciousness lies. We perceive the world as disparate, as fragmented, as separate. This is a lie. An illusion brought about by the limitations of our abilities (finite) to perceive the totality of existence and the universe (infinite). A friend of mine once called it "the illusion of separation", and I very much like that term. It's simple, it's to the point, and it rhymes. ;) What we perceive to be this mortal existence as an entity which we call a "human being" (or homo sapiens sapiens) is a manifestation which we perceive to singular, individual. This is true as much as it is false. It is true because we perceive it to be true. It is false because the truth does not end there. I'd give you an example, but I can't think of one at the time. It's not an easy concept to define in a simple manner. This put aside, though, within the context of this individual/singular manifestation which we call "me" or "I", we have full and complete control over what happens to this manifestation. The key is belief. If you believed you could fly, you could. But I mean, TRULY believe. Don't go jumping out of a window, because you'll fall and die. Even if you managed to convince yourself consciously that you could fly, you couldn't. For the simple reason that the sort of belief I speak of is not conscious belief. It has to be believed at the very core of your being. This is how the placebo effect works. By the same token, every nanosecond of your existence, you're making choices. Not necessarily conscious choices, but choices nonetheless. These choices affect every aspect of your existence. You are what you believe. If you get cancer and die, you did that. If you get cancer and survive, you did that. If you win the lottery and live happily ever after, you did that. If you win the lottery then lose your ticket, you did that. For everything that happens in your life, you are responsible. "But what if someone runs me over?" you say. "It wasn't my fault, it was theirs!". You did that. "But what if I'm walking along a mountain path, and a rock randomly falls on my head, crushes my skull, and I die? That was completely random?". You did that. "I was walking along the street and found a 100$ bill. That was just luck. For me. And bad luck for whoever dropped it." You did that. "X person did Y thing, and because of that, Z thing happened to me! It was them! It wasn't me! I didn't do anything!" Whether the outcome is positive or negative, you did that. Or allowed it to happen. And that's what it boils down to. Deep down, in your heart of hearts, at the very core of what makes you You, you choose everything that happens to you. Or doesn't. Cause and effect. But taken to a level beyond the mundane, beyond the immediate. This is because you are the world, and the world is you. As much as you decide if you want to eat a pile of dog****, or don't want to eat it... as much as you decide if you want to eat a piece of yummy cake, or not want to eat it... as much as you decide if you feel like going to work tomorrow morning or not... as much as you decide all those things in your life which require conscious thought and action and don't appear to be related or influenced by external stimuli, so are all those other things affected... those things which do seem to need outside interference, whatever they may be. This is because, in the end, we are all One. Just different manifestations of this cosmic unity. This ties everything together. This gives cosmic accountability, whether we know it or not, whether we like it our not. In an immediate way, all we can do is influence ourselves. On an absolute level, anyways. To be influenced by others (or for others to influence us), we must choose to allow ourselves to be influenced. Sometimes to choose that means strength, sometimes to choose that means weakness. But they are, in the end, just personal choices. But in a more general way, that which ties us makes our every breath, our every act, our every thought meaningful. And no, I don't only limit what I'm saying to actions. Thoughts, by themselves, can be extremely powerful. We can all do anything we want to everyone... if they let us. That's why—at its basest level—only you can decide what happens to you. And that's why—at its basest level—each of our actions, each of our thoughts shapes who and what we are. From the tiniest and most meaningless to the most grandiose and meaningful. You can tie in a bit of the chaos theory into all this, if you'd like. The butterfly effect. But operating on an individual level. I don't pretend to know how it all works exactly (I'd rule the world, if I did), but your decision eight years ago on some given night to walk on one side of the street instead of the other might well play a deciding factor in what might happen to you tomorrow. This is because each step of the way in our lives, as we make a choice—however minute—we affect the future and how it can affect us. There's no such things as randomness. There's no such thing as chance. By this, I don't mean that there's a pre-fixed destiny; nothing is set in stone—everything is dynamic. But your life's course is decided by who and what you are, this starting from long before you were born and which will continue long after you are dead. Who and what you were decides who and what you are which decides who and what you will be. It's not fixed, because your existence is dynamic; thus, so is your destiny. Your destiny is yours to choose, but it is still fixed and written in regards to where you come from... which can always be affected by where you are. Now. This moment. This very instant, during which you are reading this line. This is where Truth is. This is where the One is. No, not in that line I just wrote... in this one! No! This one! Heh, no... just fooling with ya. ;) It has nothing to do with the line itself; it has everything to do with the moment you're in while reading the line. ... Think. Anything. ... That thought you just had. That was Truth. Whatever it was. Truth is infinite... the Infinite is the only Truth. For in it, that is where eternity lies. In every moment, we're constantly reinventing ourselves. Time, after all, is a human creation. A human invention. A human perception... or perhaps, I should say, misperception. ... I'm losing my train of thought, and I'm waxing far too philosophical. So I'll stop here. And go see my friends. And try to enjoy the moment. :D -------------------- "Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00 |
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Skip to My Lou
Member # 40
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 17:01
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Muji: I'm afraid I have to completely disagree with you. "The illusion of separation" does not rhyme. ;) quote:*figurative smacking of forehead* I realize now That I allowed my trepidation to make use of my reflexive political correctness and didn't mention it. Translation: I was nervous and without really thinking about it I tried to emphasize the points that were least likely to make the close-minded extremists on the boards ignore the rational side and just point and say "Mindless sheep! Slave to religion!" I have very much made it a matter of prayer and studying scripture and the words of my church's current leaders. I am a very religious person. However, I am also a supremely rational person, and on these boards that tend to be very rational-minded and have a general disdain of organized religion, my first inclination was to talk about the parts that it seemed likely the majority would readily understand and possibly identify with. Things I've seen on the boards have led me to believe that some people here do not think it's possible for people to both be clear-thinking and follow a religion. -------------------- Take the Personality Test! INTJ 100% 75% 100% 44% Huzzah for the Masterminds! www.Keirsey.com for personality information. The Sloganizer! "Swing your Archmage Alex." Deep down, you wish you were a stick figure. Posts: 1629 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 18:08
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Does so!! :P +flowers & chocolates anyways, because it means you read at least that far. ;) More than most, I'd venture to guess! -------------------- "Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 22:49
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With all due respect, I think I'll stick with a worldview where my life doesn't depend on the choices I make after I die. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. desperance.net - Don't follow this link Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 23:04
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Alex, I think you are telling yourself a number of lovely and profound truths that together comprise a deadly lie, and I think that is the same primrose path followed by a thousand well-meaning Christians. Conversion is, at best, a factor of bisexuality; at worst, a horrible myth. Conversion tactics are usually cruel, psychologically abusive, and superficial. The same techniques could be used to convince you you are a space alien or from the future. That you dance around that, saying there is evidence to the contrary and yet never supplying any - never having any - is telling. You want to believe it will work, that you have made a bad choice somehow and it can be undone. That's not how it works. I could choose to pursue homosexual relationships, but I could not choose to enjoy the prospect, because I find the homosexual act revolting in an aesthetic and tactile sense, and that is an intrinsic part of such a relationship. That could be a choice. I could choose to live as if I were gay. I could never choose to be gay. You could choose to have relationships with women. Perhaps you can turn it into a twisted enough version of a platonic friendship that the deep-seated shame and disgust with the idea of the heterosexual act won't become an immediate problem. But you won't be happy, and neither will she. You have told us your faith's story. You have played its advocate, you have taken pains to let us know it is not beyond the pale of reason. I have attempted, in a certainly meager and insufficient way, to do the same for your sexuality; it and your faith are in conflict, and I don't know how you can reconcile that amocably, but I certainly don't think the situation merits setting fire to one or the other. Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, October 11 2005 23:10
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quote:Jewels, you’re sweet. Please don’t be upset if I can’t embrace that grim perspective of us all. I know it’s a largely traditional view of Christian belief at this time. But popular never indicates correct. We have to be more sober investigators than that if we wish to happen upon the truth. I would ask: what if heaven is not someplace out there in space people get some free ticket to as a reward for physical death, but is rather a spiritual state of being that is experienced and grows within you based on spiritual maturation through exercise and connection? You know, the true blossoming of a spirit of Love, Joy, Peace, etc. within. Jesus said, “The Kingdom of Heaven is within you”--literally, inside you. Right here, right now. So what are we waiting around to die for? I know it’s another radical shift in thinking from the sort of fairytale-ish visions of literal heavens and hells as physical places, but if you can, think about it, pray about it (one can never go wrong to express the desire to find the truth, at whatever the cost) and poke around in that Bible with an open mind. And be honest, don’t you think the children of the God Who made this fantastical universe have better things to grow up into, and suffering through this process for, than lazing around in a really rather boring celestial valhalla eating grapes? No no no, not for me, that IS hell, to be hamstrung into perpetual idleness. We have so much to do and learn and perfect. We are made to build, to work, to create, to procreate, to explore, to expand, to love...it’s a big big big universe. Lots to see in do when we grow up. Things to do, places to go, planets to go love and stuff way beyond our imagination right now. How big’s your imagination? How big is your God? Bigger than the universe. That’s pretty big. Also, curiously, and I might suggest—tellingly—no one will never find the phrase “go to heaven” anywhere in Scriptures, yet Christians use the term perpetually like a mantra. Nor the term “second coming”. These and others are totally extra-biblical phrases made into crushing dogma by slovenly common usage. Don’t believe everything they tell you. Most of them don’t do their homework. There are in fact many “comings” of Christ with many different implications. There are at least six different words in Greek all reduced to the generic “coming” of Christ in English translation. The Greeks had those six or seven words because they all meant something somewhat different. I think so did the writers who used them in the first place. Some meanings are “manifestation”, “appearing” “presence”. At least one of them actually does mean “coming” as in movement. That alone is a huge study, the uses of those words, and it is also quite revealing. I think the biggest single misfortune of present Christian doctrine is the obsession with and consciousness of sin. Sin only plagues us to the degree we still give it the power of death over us denying the provision for sin given to all the world. Scripture said the price was paid once and for all, exactly in those terms. Once. And for All. It is not held against our account. Debt erased, past, present, and future. Why do we keep resurrecting a dead thing? We don’t believe what God provided or what He invites. And so we continue to die, cut off from Life. Our salvation is secured. But we gotta actualize it to reap its true benefits. Paul said it is only our minds (our mistaken thinking) that makes us the enemy of God. We have been thinking wrongly about God, and so made ourselves lowly wormlike sinners in our own eyes and distanced from God Who invites us freely to commune with Him right here, right now, just as we are. God does not call us sinners. We do that. We are sin conscious and blind to the fully redeeming and liberating power of the Love of God, Who is after all, the Father of our spirits and we His beloved family. We removed ourselves from union with the Divine, by choosing to judge things good and evil for ourselves apart from the Mind of God, back in Genesis (symbolized by eating the fruit of a tree, the fruit of which looked good to us, but only brought us to spiritual death). We got conceited for some reason and pulled the plug, losing our connection and Divine vision...suddenly we saw our nakedness and have forever since been building things out of leaves to cover it: religions, cities, governments, schools, weapons, indulgences...provisions, protections, and pleasures. But God makes it clear we are not to judge. Only the Maker and Knower and Seer of all as it truly is is fit to render a right judgement. Sometimes what we would call evil is working a good, and some good works evil. (Known about anyone whose life was ruined by winning the lottery?) God uses all the interplay of good and evil to an ultimate good, because He is sovereign and He is love, and He is certainly purposeful and not negligent with His own creation. It’s all going somewhere, and it requires some painful lessons in the meantime till we grow up some more and believe what He told us and do something about it and quit waiting around. I also find it significant that the word “sin” is an archery term which means “falling short of the mark” as an arrow missing a bullseye. No more, no less. It means simply not yet having arrived at a perfection, not an imputation of evil or disqualification. Falling short of an ideal and a goal. That we have not yet arrived. Another favorite bludger, the word “repent” translates literally as “Take a new mind”...”change your thinking”. John the Baptist cried in the wilderness, “Repent (be ready to change your thinking) for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand (the rulership of God in our hearts is going to be revealed and made accessible to us bringing those who believe and pursue into a new incorruptible life based in the spirit of love). If the enemy of union with God is simply our own minds which condemn us (day and night before the throne of God which is in you) and make us unworthy in our own eyes as we continue to exercise our own judgement of good and evil, then taking a new mind is the remedy...repentance (from errant thinking). We have to let go of our sin-consciousness. You are what you eat. We become like the company we keep. As a man thinks in his heart, so is he. Take a new vision of yourself and your fellow man and you begin to become something new yourself. I suggest in order to really step into the Fire of God and the Love of God, we have to have adopted a right view of ourselves and others, and His grace. Because most have not really done that, they have not grown into that perfect love, and so it remains elusive. We got some more growing up to do. I don’t see mankind as wretched, sinful, weak beings. I see us as the divine spiritual family of God whose error is having distanced ourselves from a relationship and connection, which has in actuality never been denied us, if only we knew it. If you have never witnessed in operation the kind of persistent, unconditional agape love I’m talking about, then you might well expect that with full liberty, only perversion and selfishness could result. But where true love does exist, the law of love will not permit one to violate or use or harm another. Love is a more powerful law than the Law of Moses which “killeth.” The nature-transforming spirit of Love is accessible to us, any of us, all of us, if we only believe it and connect with the freely-offered Source of it in God Who is love. It is in fact a mandate to pursue that “perfection”. Paul urged us to pursue it...because it’s impossible for us? That would be a dirty trick. We should have no waiting around to kick off the mortal body for instant perfection and a lazy eternal reward doing nothing of import. If you’re not doing it now, it’s not a free reward later. It’s that prize, that crown Paul talked about running the race to capture. It’s you as a wholly new creation made anew by plugging in to Love. Having our sin—our falling short, our imperfection—not held against us so that we are able to make connection with God and that kind of love is our free gift many call salvation. Lastly, there is one simple reason why sexual activity between any adult and any child will forever be UNloving and therefore against the law of love. It is an inequitable relationship. The child is not capable of entering into a willful, mature, lateral relationship of a sexual nature with an adult. It is by defintion of the child’s greatly immature sexuality, exploitive. And love does not exploit for the self or use another for gratification. Love protects, nurtures, and embraces wisdom which knows what is appropriate for what level of maturity. It knows times and seasons, and sexual behavior is not the of the season of childhood. Sexuality is the reward for growing up...the adult replacement for losing the fun of childish play. That’s said with much of my tongue in my cheek, but it really is true in a general sense. That’s my vision and experience of God Who designed us to derive our true sustenance through spiritual connection, and not just with “Him”, but especially with one another, where God is seen and expressed, and known. As we grow, mature, and expand, we put away childish things and take on greater, bigger, and better things. It always increases and expands as long as we keep growing. No surprise, you can’t raise an infant to maturity on milk. Christianity is largely subsisting on curdled milk. It has a bad case of arrested development. It’s nice to sit around and play and have Mommy change our diapers and Daddy give us gifts, but it’s even better to grow up and start doing something creative and productive and important. So, I know I threw a bunch of random bits into this mix, but it’s just a little example of the skewing of meanings of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic words we have obtained via our sadly errant English translations of Scripture texts. There are many translational errors in the inexplicably worshipped King James Bible. Sometime later, it might be fun to dig into “hell” and “eternity” too, because what’s there might suprise, the, um, hell out people. Oh, and “satan” and “devils” too (oh my). The Truth takes the fear right out the equations. For too long the supposed ministers of Love have wielded fear on false premises in an attempt to scare the world into the Kingdom of Heaven. But fear is the tool of tyrants, and we are informed that “perfect love casts out fear.” There is no place for fear in love. They are diametrically opposed. If anything about God makes one afraid (I don’t mean revering awe), then one has not yet gotten a true look at the nature of God and of love. I get angry at how the shepherds tear the hooves off the sheep. People at least deserve to hear the true story, not eternal tortures of billions of one’s own children mockingly called “grace” and “justice” and other true abominations. Passionate about this stuff? Yep, I am. Most of us have never been given a fair shake, because we have been sold a dreadful mixture of pagan superstitions, literalistic nonsensical assumptions, mistranslated terms (some intentionally—don’t think translating Bibles isn’t political), and so on. I think any of us who loves truth and loves love and loves God does best to go to the Source ourselves and stop believing the words of dead and ignorant men. To do so makes an idol of men. 1700 years of false traditions twisted from original truths does not make them any more true than the first day they fell from heaven. Which reminds me that “lucifer” is not a name, it’s a Hebrew word which means daystar. And most blatantly, a couple verses later he’s referred as “the man who shook the world”, plainly stated within a prophecy against the king of Babylon. So much for the fallen angel mythology. How do they maintain such ridiculous superstitions? This is hard to stop, but I will. I’m not attacking you, Jewel. I love you. I love God. I love truth. I despise anything that stands in the way of all three. [ Tuesday, October 11, 2005 23:26: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Wednesday, October 12 2005 00:07
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Enough with the psuedo religious psycho-babble already. I want to hear more about girls kissing girls. Isn't that the whole point of this thread? *this message sponsored by joe francis* Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Warrior
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written Wednesday, October 12 2005 02:19
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quote:If my text implied that, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to. I still equate life to life and death to death. As much as decisions made now may affect you after you die, I don't particularly believe that decisions made after your death will affect you past (meaning, in this case, present life). Time may be an illusion, but it's still one of the core aspects of terrestrial reality. Within the context of a mortal human life, our existence is mostly linear. Just because something isn't fundamentaly real doesn't mean it can't have a very real effect on you; that's the power of belief. Or as another example (if you'll forgive the geekyness of it), think of hardlight holograms in Star Trek, if you will, with the safety turned off. The holograms are constructs, man made, and arguably fake, yet they can still affect people (but this is a scientific effect as opposed to one born purely of belief, so it's far from a perfect example). This would be the bottom line: This manifestation (physical/material world) is illusion. Time is part of this manifestation, therefore also illusion. But within the context of this illusion (which is a sensual representation of the limit of the All which our present incarnations can comprehend/cope with), we still operate within the bounds of time and, thus, are not directly affected by choices made after our death. But... yeah... I'll stop. I already said it would get messy, and it did. -------------------- "Take time to listen to what is said without words, to obey the law too subtle to be written, to worship the unnameable and to embrace the unformed." -- Lao Tzu Posts: 124 | Registered: Monday, September 26 2005 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3364
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written Wednesday, October 12 2005 05:40
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tSynergy - Don't worry about offending me. I think the only person to succeed in offending me on these boards was Ben and only because he made a sarcastic remark that I took as serious and thought he should have known better. Red was my face. Perhaps we should continue this discussion in PM since it seems we are offending others who wish not to discuss such things. -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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Skip to My Lou
Member # 40
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written Wednesday, October 12 2005 05:56
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Ah, Belisarius, this is the post I've been expecting. "You're lying to yourself! Slave to religion!" I didn't go into the details of the who, what, why, and how because I have no desire to participate in the long drawn-out argument that would very likely ensue. If you want my argument on the matter read the psychological text "Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality" by Dr. Joseph Nicolosi. I love this book because, rather than something radical and new, it took all the conclusions I had already come to about myself on my own and fit them into a pattern. This book also has a very long bibliography of the many, many studies and books he drew upon. Studies and books I have looked at and plan to fully review myself. Also, I am not claiming anyone chooses to become homosexual. That is, any more than the young child stung by a bee chooses to have a life-long phobia of bees. That person didn't choose to have a phobia, but they do choose whether to overcome their fear or say "It's normal, there's nothing wrong with it." and live their life with a can of bug spray in their pocket. Likewise, one can choose whether to overcome homosexuality or shape one's life around it. -------------------- Take the Personality Test! INTJ 100% 75% 100% 44% Huzzah for the Masterminds! www.Keirsey.com for personality information. The Sloganizer! "Swing your Archmage Alex." Deep down, you wish you were a stick figure. Posts: 1629 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |