How do we pronounce...
Pages
| Author | Topic: How do we pronounce... |
|---|---|
|
Shaper
Member # 32
|
written Friday, June 10 2005 05:29
Profile
quote:For future reference, you pronounce magi incorrectly. It should be the i sound as in pie at the end. -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
|
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
|
written Friday, June 10 2005 06:05
Profile
Linguists somehow believe they have reconstructed how actual ancient Romans pronounced their Latin. (I don't know much about how this is done, except that I don't think it relies much at all on Stargate-style theories of phonetic change over time. One important technique is to scan the ancient literature for references to the funny accents of foreigners/yokels/idiots etc. Such comments often have implications for how things were supposed to be pronounced. Maybe Kelandon can tell us more about how this works?) Anyway, I've been taught that the Romans would have said MAH-GEE (with a hard G). It's plural, by the way. The Latin singular is magus. That having been said, I believe Micael can pronounce his moniker any old way he wants, and it will be polite of us to follow him. I am still trying to adapt to KelANdon. -------------------- It is not enough to discover how things seem to seem. We must discover how things really seem. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Friday, June 10 2005 09:00
Profile
Homepage
quote:I don't know as much about this as I should, but apparently the main source is the pronunciation of the Romance languages. There are certain standard sound changes — Grimm's Law, that sort of thing — that one uses to reconstruct how an original language must've sounded from the differing pronunciations of the descendant languages. Then there are the ancient grammarians, who wrote a fair amount on how each letter was supposed to be pronounced (which is less useful than it sounds, but more than nothing). Transliteration is also very useful — Romans and Greeks used different alphabets, but they wrote a number of the same words, particularly names. Transliteration is useful in two ways: first, from the formal writings, to get an idea of what the formal grammarians and ancient linguists thought the relationships between the languages were — there is a standard Latin way of transliterating Greek, and it's not quite the same as the standard English way of doing it — and second, from graffiti (of which there is a lot still in existence, particularly in Pompeii), to see what the mis-spellings and improper pronunciations were, which gives an idea of the actual pronunciation. The result being that we have enough information that we actually could speak Latin and sound like a native speaker if we wanted. Ancient Greek is a bit harder to reconstruct for various reasons, and other languages can be even worse — apparently Classical Chinese presents an interesting problem, because the writing system is not phonetic — but we actually can do a fair bit with this. (Incidentally, this is all off the top of my head. I think the Perseus Classics site may have something good on this, or Google may be able to track something good down. And, of course, the standard work is Sidney Allen's Vox Latina.) And yes, in Classical Latin, it's MAHG-ee, stress on the first syllable, but with a long I in the second syllable, so it's held for a beat and a half compared to the single beat of the first syllable. The vowels are pronounced more or less with the quality of a Spanish or Italian vowel. Or, if you wanted to go the way of Church Latin (which is easier but still semi-authentic), it's MAH-JEE, pronunced as if it were Italian. Or for full-on Anglicization (ew), it's MAG-eye, pronounced like English. EDIT: And yes, it's a plural, and yes, we've been over this. [ Friday, June 10, 2005 09:01: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 335
|
written Friday, June 10 2005 12:20
Profile
Homepage
Since my moniker is written, not spoken, I don't really care about how Alorael is pronounced except for a few things. The A comes before the E. There is no reason for it to be pronounced as Spanish "real" (ray-AHL). That "ae" could be an Old English ash (æ), which would be pronounced much like the A in hat. A-lo-ral. Or it could be like the æ that British seem so fond of and yield A-lo-reel. Other sources seem to pronounce ae as a long A sound as in wait, so even A-lo-rail is possible. If it's not a single vowel sound or dipthong, A-lo-reye-el or A-lo-ray-el are both possibilities. Then there's the first two syllables. The first A can be either that ash sound that seems peculiar to the English language (as far as I know) or as a more romance ah. The second syllable I always think of as a long O as in boat). So there you go. All the material you need for pronouncing Alorael in any number of ways! —Alorael, who was intrigued when someone mentioned that his name sounds angelic. Yep, that -el ending, meaning "of God" is a common theme in angels' names. So what's the first part? Well, Aleph resh lamed doesn't seem to be any Hebrew root, but several dubious sources they seem to summon the power of protection according to Kabbalah. So Alorael could be stretched to mean angel of protection. Next time we discuss the numerological significance of 335! Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 247
|
written Friday, June 10 2005 12:33
Profile
Homepage
I imagine mine is the hardest of all. V C H I guess it depends on how you pronounce each individual letter. But how much variation could there be. -------------------- I stop rubber at 160km/h, five times a week. CANUCKS RESPEK! My Style The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
|
Master
Member # 4614
|
written Friday, June 10 2005 15:47
Profile
Homepage
vuch :P eh/ay-low-ray-ell. Everyone needs to pronounce it exactly like that. Someone needs to come up with a weird pronounciation for their name and insist it be pronounced like the say. Like, Smoked Salmon could be: smo-kudd sal-mun [ Friday, June 10, 2005 15:52: Message edited by: BF7 ] -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
|
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
|
written Friday, June 10 2005 15:57
Profile
Homepage
It would be a lot easier if people simply posted recordings of their names being pronounced by them. PS As for my name, it's pronounced exactly as written. (Stress on second syllable.) The only difficulty is that 'e' represents a Russian sound half way between 'e' in 'me' and 'e' in 'pen'. -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 3479
|
written Friday, June 10 2005 16:31
Profile
I think you guys can get this one. Uhn-ded KO-gar, easy enough? Posts: 51 | Registered: Tuesday, September 23 2003 07:00 |
|
La Canaliste
Member # 5563
|
written Saturday, June 11 2005 01:13
Profile
quote:Sadly, that example is real. So, here's a potted explanation: Firstly, you didn't get a surname unless you were upperclass, if by that you mean a family name. If you were a general peasant type then "John" was enough, unles there were two Johns, in which case you might be "Big John" or "Little John" or "John the smith" or "John from by the bridge" or so on. It was a personal nickname, not one you passed on. So, here you are, an upperclass person with a family name. It gets written down on a document or a map, normally in connection with some legal matter, often concerning property. The way it's written down, that's the way it's written. Over time, with the shifts in language, the vowels change, syllables get dropped, but you have a document that shows how your name is written. Look, you can see, it's written here. That's how you write my name. Well, the document is in Latin, or French, so the spelling is fancy. I can't read anyhow: I'm a nobleman who hires people to do these things! Summary: the names were written down and their spelling was frozen a long time ago. The pronunciation has evolved over time, like that of any word. Oh, and anybody who can accept the pronunciations of Kansas and Arkansas as logical can lay off Brit placenames. -------------------- I am a pale shadow of the previous self. quote: Deep down, you know you should have voted for Alcritas! Posts: 387 | Registered: Tuesday, March 1 2005 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 1558
|
written Saturday, June 11 2005 02:42
Profile
What's wrong with the pronunciation of Kansas? Arkansas has the last "s" hidden, this is simple compared to some Pom crazyness. BTW, what is the origins of the name "Arkansas" anyway? -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 5940
|
written Saturday, June 11 2005 02:54
Profile
HMS Val-EE-ANT : Law-n-Chee-ng Tor-pee-dough 72 -------------------- 5...4...3...2...1...BOOM! Posts: 9 | Registered: Saturday, June 11 2005 07:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Saturday, June 11 2005 05:28
Profile
Homepage
I'm trying to figure out which dialect of English would stress "valiant" on the second syllable. Do the Brits do this? -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
By Committee
Member # 4233
|
written Saturday, June 11 2005 06:08
Profile
I don't think they do, Kel. I still don't know how to pronounce Worcestershire Sauce correctly. Following what I've picked up from learning to pronounce "Leicester" correctly, I figure it would be something like "worstershire sauce." Still a bit confusing to this American, though. :) Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 5886
|
written Saturday, June 11 2005 06:15
Profile
Ara-NAY-a Heer-SU-ta Open your mind to the absolute power of differential geometry. :P [ Saturday, June 11, 2005 06:27: Message edited by: Aranea Hirsuta ] -------------------- My friend! Do not fear the flames of the demonic legion! Let the flames incinerate your weakness, strip away all neuroses, and transform you into a newly-forged brazen GOD! Then you will show the subhuman supplicants the true meaning of domination and the proper use of POWER! --Daemon Pavidum Posts: 52 | Registered: Friday, June 3 2005 07:00 |
|
...b10010b...
Member # 869
|
written Saturday, June 11 2005 15:03
Profile
Homepage
quote:I can only assume it's French. There's no other good explanation for a silent S at the end of a word. -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
|
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
|
written Saturday, June 11 2005 15:30
Profile
Homepage
quote:It's a French interpretation for an Indian word that has little relation to the actual place. The same word was used as the root of Kansas, I believe, but the French never disambiguated Kansas from the rest of outer Louisiana, and the Americans did, so they got to figure out how to pronounce it. -------------------- The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest. Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 73
|
written Saturday, June 11 2005 18:00
Profile
quote:http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?bo ok=Dictionary&va=worcestershire+sauce&x=11&y=14 Interestingly, George Washington Carver apparently found a way to make it from peanuts. Also interestingly, according to the bottle in my refrigerator, it contains anchovies. [ Monday, June 13, 2005 15:04: Message edited by: The Almighty Doer of Stuff ] -------------------- The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) Famous Last Words - A local pop-punk band They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 5567
|
written Saturday, June 11 2005 22:28
Profile
Homepage
Jayd-Woolf Wool as in sheep's wool. -------------------- How many shapers are there? Why is Drypeak controlled by Zakary? Why is Barzahl a Guardian? How does the Geneforge work? What's as small as nothing? Why am I asking stupid questions? -------------------------------- Shaper teacher : "DON'T TOUCH THAT!" BOOM!! apprentice :*little voice* "Sorry..." --------------------------- Visit CSM !!! And this site is just great! Wow! Did you know what the answer to the gretest question ever is ? Posts: 576 | Registered: Wednesday, March 2 2005 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 618
|
written Sunday, June 12 2005 01:11
Profile
Homepage
Amm'i'teel (Standard phonetic i) Worcestershire sauce is usually pronounced, with an English standard accent, something along the lines of: W'uss'ter'sher saw'ss With the w as a standard phonetic w and the uss as in "wuss". The shire part varies across England, anyway, so there's never any hard feelings about that not being right. :) -------------------- Aut Tace Aut Loquere Meliora Silencio Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 1207
|
written Sunday, June 12 2005 02:13
Profile
quote:Grimm's Law applies to Germanic languages (like English), not Romance. That's what makes there a <p> in Latin <pater> corrseponding to English <f> in <father>, and the <th> matches up with the <t> in those two words as well. You probably knew that, no doubt, but you certainly implied that it was a rule applying to Romance languages. I don't care how people pronounce my name. If you want to emphasise the <ø> and pronounce it like they do in Scandinavian languages, go right ahead. If you have no idea how that's pronounced, just make it an ordinary o-sound. I don't think there's any point caring since we're never going to meet in person or speak to each other, most likely. Jelly, however, is of course an English word and should be pronounced thus. If I ever get around to changing my screenname to "finlay", which is my name and the name I use on other boards, pronounce it with an "ay" sound and not an "ee" sound, please. But again it would never matter unless we met in person, which I have no doubt probably won't. -------------------- ørangutan Posts: 316 | Registered: Saturday, May 25 2002 07:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Sunday, June 12 2005 08:16
Profile
Homepage
quote:There are two things that we mean when we say Grimm's Law: the thing that Grimm actually came up with, which only applies to Germanic languages; and a broader set of sound correspondences in all Indo-European languages (and the standard sound changes to be derived from those). It's a lot like how Newtonian physics covers a lot more than Newton ever personally wrote about. There is no other term for the sound changes from proto-Indo-European to Latin or from Latin to the Romance languages as far as I know, so I said Grimm's Law. [ Sunday, June 12, 2005 08:17: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
|
written Monday, June 13 2005 12:51
Profile
Not to be confused with grim slaw, which is the irridescent stuff you get at KFC. Soylent green is made of chickens! -------------------- It is not enough to discover how things seem to seem. We must discover how things really seem. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 5450
|
written Monday, June 13 2005 13:05
Profile
Homepage
I simply pronounce Worcestershire as 'War-cest-uh-shire'. Worcestershire is a place in the UK, is it not? I think its something like that. -------------------- I'll put a Spring in your step. Polaris Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 73
|
written Monday, June 13 2005 15:06
Profile
Well, then you'll look like an idiot if you mention it to anyone who knows how to pronounce it. I edited my previous post. It had an incomplete URL. Here's the full URL: http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=worces tershire+sauce&x=11&y=14 If you click on the red speaker images, it will play aloud two different ways to pronounce it. [ Monday, June 13, 2005 15:07: Message edited by: The Almighty Doer of Stuff ] -------------------- The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) Famous Last Words - A local pop-punk band They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
|
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
|
written Monday, June 13 2005 15:16
Profile
Shockingly, the "Worcestershire" in Worcestershire sauce is pronounced the way it is because the names of the English county of Worcestershire, and of the city of Worcester therein, are pronounced as though "orce" were "oo". You pronounce the Worcester in Massachusetts as "Wusstah". Then ask Nohm for a beeh. [ Monday, June 13, 2005 15:25: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ] -------------------- It is not enough to discover how things seem to seem. We must discover how things really seem. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |