Here We Go Again (Political Compass)

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AuthorTopic: Here We Go Again (Political Compass)
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #50
I'd finish that off, but I don't think ef would be too happy...

EDIT: That reminds me. If those sorts of references to your age offend you, ef, please let me know. I apologize if they do.

Is racism agaisnt Mexicans really that much of any issue? I don't mean that in a derogatory way, I'm just wondering. There are very few Mexicans where I live, so maybe I just haven't had a chance to see the problem... but I've heard more than a few racist remarks about Jews, and about African Americans, but none about Mexicans. Maybe New York is just different...

I beg to differ on the "nice to people" part, but that's really beside the point; I wasn't just talking about you.

And yes, that has struck me; Bush had the right general idea, I think, but no idea how to go about doing it right. I'm a bit more optimistic than you, though; it hasn't been a year yet, and anyway, things like this take time. The country may not be so democratic now, but that will change; look at German and Japan after WWII. I know it's a different situation and all that, but we'll figure it out before too long. Here's the thing: the people don't want a dictator. They have been freed from a dictator and given a chance at a not inconsiderable cost to themselves; they're not just going to give it up.

[ Friday, January 09, 2004 20:40: Message edited by: Sir David ]

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL

Les forum de la chance.

In case of emergency, break glass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #51
quote:
Originally written by Sir David:

I'd finish that off, but I don't think ef would be too happy...

Is racism agaisnt Mexicans really that much of any issue? I don't mean that in a derogatory way, I'm just wondering. There are very few Mexicans where I live, so maybe I just haven't had a chance to see the problem... but I've heard more than a few racist remarks about Jews, and about African Americans, but none about Mexicans. Maybe New York is just different...

A little. There aren't a lot of blacks, European immigrants, or Asians to speak of in the southwest (well, plenty of Asians, I guess), so the hated group of choice'd be Mexicans here.


I beg to differ on the "nice to people" part, but that's really beside the point; I wasn't just talking about you.

Hey, there's a difference between acrid sarcasm and genuine mean-spiritedness :P

And yes, that has struck me; Bush had the right general idea, I think, but no idea how to go about doing it right.

I don't think that he had the right idea in mind; this was another, albeit more resource-grubbing, exercise in 'kill the bastards!'. Bush burned a lot of bridges for someone who had any concern about the welfare of the people of Iraq.

I'm a bit more optimistic than you, though; it hasn't been a year yet, and anyway, things like this take time. The country may not be so democratic now, but that will change; look at German and Japan after WWII.

Germany and Japan were very calm, peaceful occupations. The biggest problem that faced the occupiers came from unruly soldiers as far as violence was concerned; they were there to restore democracy to areas that had been democratic before, too, and not trying to plant just-add-water Jeffersonian Democracy seeds in a country that went from an Ottoman colony to a British one to an illicit kingdom to an even less legitimate despotism. Oh, and there's also the crushing, hate-building 14-year embargo.

I know it's a different situation and all that, but we'll figure it out before too long. Here's the thing: the people don't want a dictator. They have been freed from a dictator and given a chance at a not inconsiderable cost to themselves; they're not just going to give it up.

They'd rather see the country ruled by their dictator than our 'democrats' at this point, mostly because of the extremely heavy-handed tactics we've used and ineptitute in setting up an even-handed government.



[ Friday, January 09, 2004 20:45: Message edited by: General Secretary Custer ]

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In a word, gay.
--Bob the Impaler

Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 48
Profile #52
quote:
Originally written by General Secretary Custer:

I'm perfectly nice to people; it's reactionary thinking I can't stand, not the reactionaries themselves. People change.
Agreed. Take a look at my results for example... :)

"Economic Left/Right: -4.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.15"

I was in the Libertarian Left the last time I took it (something like -5, -5). While my opinions on pages 5 and 6 stayed "conservative" both then and now, my opinions toward other issues in the previous pages might have changed over the months-- that's probably the reason why I end up in the NE quadrant this time.

(I guess I can be called a "Progressive Conservative" since I'm no Bush supporter in terms of politics but agree with him on the grounds of morality and religion...)

I also re-took the Myers-Briggs personality test that Alorael provided back in June and got a different result.

quote:
Also, hasn't it struck you that, if we were going to have a regime change in Iraq, we've gotten off to a piss-poor start? We conquered the country a year ago, and it's still in a state of barely-suppressed holocracy. The US is going to have to leave soon for political reasons; what have we done to Iraq besides ensure that the dictator who replaces Saddam Hussein will support the US and rule a country much poorer than Hussein's.
<OPINION WARNING>

Actually, I must admit that my opinion towards Islamic terrorism is quite extreme. I believe that there are only two ways to stop terrorism: "total annihilation" or "total peace."

The former requires every single enemy to be annihilated and may require the use of WMD. Theoretically it works, but I personally would call it an unfavorable (if not immoral) method.

On the other hand, the latter seems foolish in the short run because it's counterintuitive to not seek revenge when you are under the threat of being attacked. But in the long run, it may be beneficial since terrorists are totally "normal people" if you can make them stop attacking.

A limited war, like the 2003 Iraq War, unfortunately fails because it receoves the benefit of neither extremes (the enemy still exists but is not pacified).

</END OF OPINION WARNING>

quote:
At least it was a step up from Afghanistan, which is even worse than we left it, mostly because Afghanistan was a Carthage-esque exercise in "Kill the bastards!"
Hmmm... your mentioning of Carthage reminds me of a term that I made up earlier:
"Delenda Est Communist China!"

(Look up "Delenda Est Carthago" on google and replace "Carthage" with "China" in case you don't know what it means.)

Then again, I may be biased on this since this is from the "American perspective" and I have read Bill Gertz's The China Threat...

quote:
I would propose that the test is biased towards the far left because society is biased towards the far left, more or less. Western society is much less tolerant of extreme reactionaries (kill the Jews, the blacks, the mexicans, and so on) than of extreme progressives. The education system is, in part, responsible for this.
This reminds me of some research I did a while ago on the Myers-Briggs personality typing theory. It seems to me that those "NF's" who are Civil Rights Leaders/Radicals/Progressives (See http://keirsey.com/pumII/temper.html for details) are likely to be both well-loved AND well-hated at the same time depending on the issue.

[ Friday, January 09, 2004 21:01: Message edited by: y0d1n2a3 ]

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"Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing.-Luke 23:34
Posts: 329 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Senile Reptile
Member # 547
Profile #53
I'm back from my absence this fine Friday evening for just a moment. Too tired for integrals now.

Economic Left/Right: 0.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.38

I barely moved since last time, perhaps .2 left and .2 down or something.

And just like last time, I think the compass is rather heavily biased towards the southwest. Before taking the test, I would have placed myself at about 2.5, -1.5. Some of the economic questions are simply too general or all-encompassing (no pun intended). Here are the ones that I found to be especially silly:

Many personal fortunes are made by people who simply manipulate money and contribute nothing to their society.

No matter where you stand on the scale, this is just a fact of life. There will always be people with more material possessions than they "deserve."

The businessman and the manufacturer are more important than the writer and the artist.

There should be a spot here for "equal importance." A society of poets and painters won't last long with practical labor, and a society of machines and merchants promises to be rather empty and dull.

And I beleive one can find beauty in anything if only willing to do so. It's really just a state of mind, seeing something as art.

And now I depart once more for an undetermined period of time.

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Polaris
Posts: 1614 | Registered: Wednesday, January 23 2002 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #54
quote:
Originally written by Sir Motrax of Exile:

Many personal fortunes are made by people who simply manipulate money and contribute nothing to their society.

No matter where you stand on the scale, this is just a fact of life. There will always be people with more material possessions than they "deserve."

Well, some rightists (I consider the term "conservative" to be vague and misleading in this context) are fond of rhetoric about how all those manipulators of money help support the economy or something.

Of course, I suppose a real rightist would argue it doesn't matter whether they contribute to society.

quote:
The businessman and the manufacturer are more important than the writer and the artist.

There should be a spot here for "equal importance." A society of poets and painters won't last long with practical labor, and a society of machines and merchants promises to be rather empty and dull.
Well, if you really think both are of exactly equal importance and can't choose between them, you're disagreeing with the statement that businessmen are more important. I do see your point, though. By the way, does anyone know if Political Compass counts this one as an economic or a social question? It should be the latter.

quote:
And I beleive one can find beauty in anything if only willing to do so. It's really just a state of mind, seeing something as art.
Well, some would dispute whether being beautiful is either necessary or sufficient to make something art. After all, some people find beauty in nature, whereas art, by definition, is artificial (no arguments about "art trouve", please.)

Anyway, this is basically a question on how you define art. I suppose defining art in a broad manner has something directly to do with liberal/libertarian views, but not very much -- it's certainly a characteristic of totalitarian political views that they hold a restrictive definition of what makes good art, but not all totalitarian views are authoritarian. So yeah, it's a poor question.

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I believe there are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 105 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe, and the same number of electrons. -- Sir Arthur Eddington
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 737
Profile #55
-4.12
-5.49

I don't fully understand how to read the results. Am I a danger to society? :P

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Who was born in a house full of pain
Who was trained not to spit in the fan
Who was told what to do by the man
Who was broken by trained personnel
Who was fitted with collar and chain
Who was given a pat on the back
Who was breaking away from the pack
Who was only a stranger at home
Who was ground down in the end
Who was found dead on the phone
Who was dragged down by the stone
Posts: 595 | Registered: Tuesday, March 12 2002 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #56
Not more so than the rest of us here. But then, that's not really reassuring, is it? :)

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"And all should cry, Beware, Beware!
His Flashing eyes, his Floating hair!" S. T. Coleridge
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"It is as if everyone had lost their sense
Consigned themselves to downfall and decadence
And a wisp it is they have chosen as their beacon." Reinhard Mey.
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Quote of the Week: "I have a high opinion of myself, which makes up for my total lack of intelligence." Anon.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 2711
Profile #57
Economic Left/Right: -2.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.51

close to the dalai lama heh

what is done in a private bedroom between two consenting adults is no business of the state

O Strongly disagree
O Disagree
O agree
X strongly agree

=D

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spiderweb soft make an mmorpg!
Posts: 126 | Registered: Wednesday, February 26 2003 08:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #58
Economic- -2.25
Social- -5.28
I didn't fully understand what some of the questions were asking.

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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 737
Profile #59
quote:
Originally written by Arancaytar:

Not more so than the rest of us here. But then, that's not really reassuring, is it? :)
Not really... :P

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Who was born in a house full of pain
Who was trained not to spit in the fan
Who was told what to do by the man
Who was broken by trained personnel
Who was fitted with collar and chain
Who was given a pat on the back
Who was breaking away from the pack
Who was only a stranger at home
Who was ground down in the end
Who was found dead on the phone
Who was dragged down by the stone
Posts: 595 | Registered: Tuesday, March 12 2002 08:00
Babelicious
Member # 3149
Profile Homepage #60
Racism against Mexicans is definitely an issue. I see it all the time. Homophobia is probably the biggest around here, though, but in any place with a large population of migrant workers, there is racism against those workers.
Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1207
Profile #61
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.31
Near Nelson Mandela, just like most of Spidweb's other population. Anyone else noticed the Spidweb and Southwest share initials. Can everyone stop having big long meaningless rants? Is [the guy who posted before me whose name begins with an "m"] from Korea? edit: Read his "from" thing with www.omniglot.com, which has all sorts of writing systems from around the world-it says "myeong-lang-han ngoang, [chinese]". I have no idea what it means, especially the chinese part.

[ Saturday, January 10, 2004 13:30: Message edited by: the Thing ]

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~ørangutan

I want high-bit characters in my displayed name!!! :( :( :( (Or at least an exclamtion point!)

Eat pie!
BADGER!
Posts: 316 | Registered: Saturday, May 25 2002 07:00
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
Profile #62
quote:
Originally written by Sir Motrax of Exile:

Many personal fortunes are made by people who simply manipulate money and contribute nothing to their society.

I believe the important word here is made. Most would agree that the idle rich children of billionaires who will never need to work don't contribute.

I have right-wing friends who openly support attacking not on moral grounds but for profit and who favour turning the Commonwealth into an empire (if a slightly more enlightened version) again. Some of them also exhibit homophobia, vague anti-Semitism (some of it joking, some of it serious, but it's bad enough that anti-Semitism is considered to be humourous) and anti-immigrant fervour.

But they still only get about 3.5, 4.5.

My main problem with the future of Iraq is that rather than holding elections, the US is handpicking 'notables' from the various regions to choose a constituent assembly to write the constitution and hold elections. And this is very likely to be an excuse just to stuff it to the gills with pro-American candidates who've spent most of their life living in Western exile and will soon alienate the populace nearly as much as arbitrary arrests and house searches by aggressive frightened soldiers who don't speak the local language.

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Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned
I'll tell you my story, man
Though I wish I'd never been born
I'm loose at the seams,
I've broken my dreams
And my hand it shakes the pen
Come on, come on now baby,
Let the good times roll again
Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1249
Profile Homepage #63
Economic Left/Right: -9.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.82

I think they've changed the questions a bit...
Posts: 259 | Registered: Saturday, June 1 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 3441
Profile Homepage #64
quote:
Also, bear in mind SW's average age: 'Show me a young conservative and I'll show you a man without a heart', as the beginning of the line goes.

I guess I have no heart.
Hooray! I'm still the most authritarian, and I thought I was showing moderation.

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-WildKarrdeSmuggler

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Visit the Smuggler's Alliance
Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3801
Profile Homepage #65
Economic Left/Right: -3.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.38

Closest to Ghandi and the Dalai Lama.

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There is no knowledge that is not power.

Take a chance at the Chance Forums!
Posts: 323 | Registered: Thursday, December 18 2003 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 169
Profile #66
Economic: 2.88
Social: 2.51

I think there's something seriously wrong with this test - I'd consider the government and society depicted in "Freehold" to be about as close to ideal as it's possible to come in the real world. (For any idiots out there, I mean the Freehold government, not any of the others in the book.) That government certainly doesn't fit this description. (For one thing, only a moron would describe it as authoritarian.)
Posts: 422 | Registered: Tuesday, October 16 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #67
quote:
Originally written by the Thing:

Anyone else noticed the Spidweb and Southwest share initials?
Indeed... how fitting. :P

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"And all should cry, Beware, Beware!
His Flashing eyes, his Floating hair!" S. T. Coleridge
---
"It is as if everyone had lost their sense
Consigned themselves to downfall and decadence
And a wisp it is they have chosen as their beacon." Reinhard Mey.
---
Quote of the Week: "I have a high opinion of myself, which makes up for my total lack of intelligence." Anon.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00

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