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I Guess I Just Don't Get It in Geneforge Series
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Monday, April 10 2006 01:48 Profile #0
I started playing Geneforge 3 yesterday.

I've cleared every single part of the first island except for the Lair of the Creator. In fact, I'm on my very last fight in that area -- the Boss Fight™.

I have a level 9 Shaper. Since I've killed everything else on the island (except for the insanely hard fights in the Testing Grounds) and completed all the quests I know of, not to mention opening every locked door and chest and investigating every nook and cranny, that's about as high as I'm going to get -- I can't leave the island yet, after all.

There have been some pretty darned tough battles throughout the whole game so far. As in Geneforge 1, I often feel like death is just around the corner, and I can barely carry any weight at all, which means I have to rathole stuff all over the map until I clear the enemies and can collect it safely.

So I'm on the final battle, and I can't beat it. I tried creating two 21-Essence Thahds, and they're pretty strong, but I still couldn't beat the boss; I died, because it's tough trying to fend off dozens of worms while you damage the boss, who, by the way, has about a million hit points.

I tried creating four very basic Fyoras; they were slaughtered almost immediately and couldn't hit anything with their attacks (which were also weak), and I subsequently died.

I tried creating one powerful Atila, and that worked OK at first, but it frickin' ran out of energy after the first few rounds. It died, and so did I.

A single, powerful creature is simply out of the question, because there's no way to fend off three or four worms before the worms get to my Shaper and slaughter him.

So what's the deal, guys? Am I missing something? Is it just me? I started fighting game bosses in all different kinds of games as a kid in the late eighties, and this is one of the most ludicrous fights I've ever been in. I feel as though I'm no stronger than I was when I started. I can't even leave the island to gain more experience until I beat a boss . . . which I seemingly can't defeat.

Any advice would be much appreciated. I haven't been this frustrated with a game (especially a roleplaying game) in a long time.

[ Monday, April 10, 2006 01:51: Message edited by: Old Scratch ]

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
School of Hard Knocks in Geneforge Series
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Sunday, April 9 2006 13:07 Profile #10
quote:
Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas:

Even so, the Aramaic junk was a load of nonsense. It has no place in Christianity and a very small place in only one other widely practiced religion in the world, a.k.a. Judaism.

And where did he get the "one true name" stuff from. The name "Satan" comes from the old testament, long before the name Lucifer was ever invented. Unless he is disregarding the phrases in the old testament all saying that the word of God is truth and cannot be changed in any way and that the old testament is the word of god, it's got no basis in any religion I've heard of.

Which leads to another point. All the angels that have names are named in the Torah, according to the K'tuvim, both of which are part of the old testament. And even if it weren't mentioned, all angels that sit by the throne of god (as lucifer is said to have) have the suffix -el at the end of their names (eg. Gavriel Mikhael) which means god.
Calm down, friend; we're talking about something I consider to be mythology. I'm an atheist, not a Christian or a Jew. What I know about the Archangel Lucifer, of the Cherubim choir (or so I thought until hearing from you), is what I have read in relevant books, in the Bible itself, or from someone else interested in angels and demons.

As with all history and mythology, different people, often using wildly different sources, come up with wildly different interpretations and explanations of the same concept. The views I expressed here are correct insofar as I know. And, in my opinion, there is no such thing as "fact" when dealing with what boils down to a bunch of winged creatures that live in the sky, written about by ancient men thousands of years ago.

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
A3: Heavily Biased Toward the Light Side? in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Sunday, April 9 2006 00:47 Profile #2
quote:
Originally written by Micawber:

Loss of 1 point of reputation isn't that serious. Although personally I always try to avoid the divine lucre patrols (on horseback).

You know, you can even pay 5000 to join the church of the divine lucre. This also decreases your reputation, so Jeff is even-handed. You do at least get left alone by the patrols (as well as a boost to magery).
You're right, it's no big deal; the loss of a couple of Reputation points and a curse that I can have removed for free in Shayder aren't terribly significant. I just think the way it's handled is rather ironic. Here's a small dialogue to illustrate my point:

LUCRE PATROL: "Halt, travelers! We claim this land as our own, and demand that you pay us 100 coins for passing through it!"

AVERNITES: "And if we should refuse?"

LUCRE PATROL: "Why then, we'll put you to the sword!"

AVERNITES: "Fair enough! Have at thee, foul varlets!"

(A short, bloody, decisive battle ensues.)

* * * * * * * * Later . . . * * * * * * *

AVERNITES: "Ho there, Temple of the Divine Lucre! We come in peace, and wish to parley with you!"

(The Divine Lucre army sneaks up on the Avernites from behind.)

ARMY OF THE DIVINE LUCRE: "We know what you did to our patrol, scum! Prepare to die!"

AVERNITES: "More villains shall fall beneath our cold steel! Have at thee, brigands!"

(After a long and bloody engagement . . .)

AVERNITES: "Well, we've triumphed. However, it seems that standing up to extortionists' demands and defending ourselves from an 8-to-1 sneak attack (and near-certain death) by a small army is considered to be evil. We appear to be cursed, and the narrator has informed us that we are 'slaughterers' and 'looters'. Figures!"

[ Sunday, April 09, 2006 00:49: Message edited by: Old Scratch ]

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
A3: Heavily Biased Toward the Light Side? in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Sunday, April 9 2006 00:12 Profile #0
[somewhat irrelevant/read if you are interested/if not skip to third paragraph]I have to admit, I almost always choose the "good guy" approach to roleplaying games, rather than the "bad guy" approach. Except, of course, when it comes to stealing everything that isn't nailed down; but the important thing is that I don't murder and loot shopkeepers and throw rocks at crippled children, nor choose "evil" dialogue options.

In the Fallout games, I usually do a lot of bad stuff, but I was still careful to end up with a very high amount of good Karma. And there was a lot of VERY, VERY bad stuff that I could have done, but didn't.[/end irrelevance]

So anyway, I got near the Temple of the Divine Lucre (or was it Holy Lucre?) in A3, and a Lucre patrol demanded that I pay them cash for being on "their land". I was filthy rich by then, but I'll be damned if I simply hand money over to a bunch of greedy extortionists.

Since the only other option was to "Attack!" them, I did so, and justifiably in my opinion. ("Pay us or die!" will not get a good reaction from me in roleplaying games -- real life perhaps, but certainly not RPGS).

After I dispatched them, my Reputation decreased! As if I'm in the wrong for refusing to hand over my money to anyone who draws their sword from its scabbard and demands payment! What a crock!

And then, MUCH later, I finally was strong enough to defeat the army of priests which attacked me when I approached the Lucre temple to talk to them. ("We know what you did to our patrol! Die, scum!")

After fighting for my life and barely escaping with all of my characters alive, after THEY attacked ME with a gigantic army, the game has the audacity to say that I had "slaughtered" them and could now "loot" their temple! And the game gives me a dread curse, to boot!

Anyway, let's recap: Lucre patrol demands my money because "this is our land". I defend myself from their extortionism, and lose Reputation. I then approach the Lucre temple in peace; they frigging ambush me, outnumbering me 8 to 1, and the game calls me a slaughterer when I defend myself and barely escape with my life.

Mr. Vogel, the lure of the Dark Side is that it is more profitable to be evil than good. It has downsides, but they should almost balance out. Avernum 3 pretty much forces you to be totally good all the time, or else. (I know that was probably your intention, but I mean, jeez.)

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
A2 - Why am I getting ill everytime? in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Saturday, April 8 2006 23:56 Profile #5
quote:
Originally written by St. Ashby the Martyr:

A search for "ill sick" yields three threads, two of which answer the question. I found these results on my second try, after narrowing down my terms.

Search didn't lead me to Alorael's post; it led me to the thread the post was in.
No worries; I'm just being difficult. (Sorry!)

It's just that I've been through the whole "search for a pre-existing, relevant thread for hours before starting your own topic, lest you annoy the board veterans" song and dance a number of times before. It can be a real pain, and it almost always takes vets less time to answer a repost than it takes the newie to look for a pre-existing topic that answers his question.

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
School of Hard Knocks in Geneforge Series
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Saturday, April 8 2006 23:46 Profile #4
This was just a mild complaint, and I did manage to get through the area all right. I'm around level six now and trucking right along. One thing worries me, though: I love to loot, and 66 pounds is a pretty tough limit. Since there's absolutely no reason to increase my Strength except to increase my carrying capacity, and since extra Stun Resistance is utterly marginal for a Shaper at best, and since, futhermore, another level of Strength only gives you a whopping 8 extra pounds of carrying capacity, this distresses me.

But that's all right; I'm sure I'll survive. ;)

quote:
Originally written by Nick Ringer:

Oh, are you called "Old Scratch" from Pink Floyd's secret message? I love The Wall).
Now that you mention it, I do remember that secret message. I didn't choose this moniker because of Pink Floyd, though, but mainly because of a woodcut (a carved wooden "stamp" depicting a scene which old-time printers covered in ink and transferred onto paper) from a book produced sometime in the 1800s -- colonial America. I forget what the story was called, but it was famous, and it featured the Devil -- aka Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, the Prince of the Earth, the Prince of Darkness, Mammon, The Tempter, The Enemy, Old Nick, or Old Scratch, of course. Another variation on that last is Mr. Scratch, and there are plenty more where that came from -- God must be jealous, because He only has a few name variations.

(Actually -- and most people don't know this -- Satan and Lucifer were two different angels. You learn something new every day, right? However, Lucifer is the one true name [albeit pronounced somewhat differently in English than in Aramaic, as with all Biblical names] for the Devil.)

[ Saturday, April 08, 2006 23:51: Message edited by: Old Scratch ]

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
A2 - Why am I getting ill everytime? in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Saturday, April 8 2006 18:21 Profile #2
quote:
Originally written by St. Ashby the Martyr:

quote:
Originally written by Facsimilicious:

If you have any metal bars, check them. Unidentified ones just may be uranium, which diseases your entire party. Gauntlets may be Pyrrhic Gauntlets, which also cause disease. Those are the two big mysterious sources of contagion in A1 and A2.

—Alorael, who doesn't think the gauntlets are cursed and who knows the uranium isn't. Drop them and everything is fine except for very angry Avernites.
The search function can save you a lot of time that would be spent waiting for a reply. Not that it did in this case, but still. Self-reliance and all that. Makes you a better person.
I don't think he would have been able to find this text with the search feature, since "ill" "nausea" and "hair falling out", all key terms in the message displayed by the game, don't appear anywhere in the text you quoted. Even "sick" doesn't appear; only "disease" or "contagion" would have done the trick.

So what exactly did you want him to search for? The text you found doesn't make a strong case for the use of the search function.

[ Saturday, April 08, 2006 18:22: Message edited by: Old Scratch ]

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
School of Hard Knocks in Geneforge Series
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Saturday, April 8 2006 17:30 Profile #0
I started playing the demo of Geneforge 1 today, and I like it a lot so far. If I decide to buy the series, I'm probably going to play them in order, so I'm starting with the first installment.

However, I've noticed that Geneforge is rather difficult. I know there's an option to adjust the game's difficulty, but I don't like to use that feature if I don't absolutely have to.

Anyway, I'm in Watchhill with a level 3 Shaper, and I feel like death is always only a few seconds away. The ogre-like creatures can kill my character in one hit. I tried increasing his Endurance, and I got two whole points of bonus Health! (Yay!) I'm also wearing the best armor I can find.

So I keep saving the game after every single combat, because I might die in the next, and there's really not a lot I can do about it. Is this common in the early stages of the game with a Shaper, or is it just me?

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
A3: XP/Level Mysteriously Decreased in Tech Support
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Saturday, April 8 2006 13:44 Profile #8
quote:
Originally written by Spidweb:

I think I removed experience drain in Avernum 3. I CERTAINLY made sure experience drain never takes levels away. Nothing takes levels away.

What this looks like is a file corruption, either in the game or the saved game.

I suggest chucking Avernum 3, downloading a fresh copy, and reinstalling. Then go back to a saved game from before the levels mysteriously disappeared. There is nothing in the game as designed to cause that effect.

- Jeff Vogel
My copy of Avernum 3 is from the CD-ROM I ordered just a couple of weeks ago. Should I still replace it with a downloaded copy (which would require getting another registration code)?

[ Saturday, April 08, 2006 13:45: Message edited by: Old Scratch ]

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
A3: XP/Level Mysteriously Decreased in Tech Support
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Saturday, April 8 2006 13:42 Profile #7
By opening two saved games, I have managed to determine approximately when Algernon lost his XP.

Near the beginning of the lower level of the Pit of the Wyrm, Algernon was Level 39, had 49,692 XP, and had his next level coming at 50,700.

Near the end of the Pit (at the altar next to the room with the Fury Crossbow), he was level 40, had 42,503 XP, and had his next level coming at 52,000.

Somewhere between the entrance to the lower Pit and that altar, Algernon (and only Algernon) lost about 10,000 XP -- and I didn't fight a single undead the entire time.

10,000 XP lost in a single part of one dungeon? About 15%-20% of all the XP I had accumulated throughout the entire game?

No, that's ridiculous. There must be a bug. What sort of insane game designer would allow monsters to dock you 10,000 XP in less than 100 yards of dungeon?

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
A3: XP/Level Mysteriously Decreased in Tech Support
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Saturday, April 8 2006 13:26 Profile #5
quote:
Originally written by Niemand:

There are several undead which do this , I believe. If you see a line print out that says "Algernon is drained" when fighting one of these, it means that some of his xp has been stolen.
Enough to steal 10,000 XP (as compared to Ma Gwai)?

That's utterly ridiculous, though. Well, I guess there's nothing I can do about it. If someone could tell me which undead do this and how many experience points are typically stolen, that could help me figure this out. As it is, having a fighter who is going to be almost ten levels lower than everyone else is kind of annoying. Very annoying, actually.

As far along as I may be, I think I'm going to start the game over again and make sure not to get hit by these undead, because I find this pretty upsetting.

[ Saturday, April 08, 2006 13:27: Message edited by: Old Scratch ]

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
A3: XP/Level Mysteriously Decreased in Tech Support
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Saturday, April 8 2006 03:56 Profile #2
quote:
Originally written by Wonko The Sane:

Did he actually lose levels?

If it's just uneven experience, there might be an explanation. I think that the person who actually does the killing gets more experience than someone who just sits there. The Ma Gwai character seems more of a "tank" that you would send out to beat up things and get beat up upon.

But then again, I know hardly anything about A3.
He lost levels. I know he got to level 43, and besides, his next level wouldn't be 7,000 XP+ away in any case, no matter what level he was. Algernon gets as many kills as Ma Gwai, if not more -- at the very least, they're about even. Certainly not 4 levels of difference; if anyone should be behind, it would be Ma Gwai.

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
A3: XP/Level Mysteriously Decreased in Tech Support
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Saturday, April 8 2006 03:34 Profile #0
So I looked at one of my character info screens -- for my fighter character, Algernon -- and noticed that somewhere along the line, he lost four levels and thousands of experience points. Just to add a little spice to the mix, the game still says that he needs 52,000 XP to level up. Considering that he only has about 46,000 at this point, that could take a long time.

Another character in the party, Ma Gwai, has an XP penalty of 30% -- the same as Algernon. Yet he appears to be progressing normally. None of my characters have ever died (well, not without me re-loading a save file, anyway), nor have I witnessed any other event that would cause this to occur.

I'm running Avernum 3 v. 1.1.4, on a 600 mHz G3 Mac with OS X 10.3.9 installed. I've never had a problem before now, certainly nothing like this. It's pretty much a game-ruiner for me.

As proof (and so that you'll know what you're looking at), I have uploaded two images: one of Algernon's info screen, and one of Ma Gwai's info screen. As I mentioned before, Ma Gwai and Algernon have identical XP penalties, 30% each, and they've all been in the same fights. Both of the other characters in the party are at the proper level and experience, too.

IMAGE(http://www.geocities.com/pipboy_2ooo/algernon.jpg)
IMAGE(http://www.geocities.com/pipboy_2ooo/magwai.jpg)

[ Saturday, April 08, 2006 03:39: Message edited by: Old Scratch ]

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
15,000 Coin Limit? in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Friday, April 7 2006 23:10 Profile #18
quote:
Originally written by Subliminal Message Here:

You get a perfect bell curve and your chance of getting a 3 or an 18 is 1/216, or less than half of a percent.
Correct. The total number of combinations possible on 3d6 is, of course, (6 * 6 * 6), or (6^3). Since there is only a single combination that wil give you 3 or 18 (111 or 666), it's safe to assume that the ratio is 216:1, or a .4629% probability (1 divided by 216).

That's the easy part. The challenge is in deciphering how many combinations are possible for 4 and 17, 5 and 16, 6 and 15, et cetera. Unless you know a convenient formula (I don't), you have to figure it out by trial and error.

Or you can look it up online. After I did all of the math for 3d6 probabilities myself, I discovered that a Web site had a page up that listed them all . . . :mad: ;)

[ Friday, April 07, 2006 23:10: Message edited by: Old Scratch ]

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
Limits of Item Storage/Hawke's Manse in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Friday, April 7 2006 18:28 Profile #0
I am a roleplaying game packrat. I don't save every item, but I do save a lot of them. I still have nearly every single potion I've ever found (saving them for a rainy day), and I store many pieces of equipment which might come in handy later on (items that protect from petrification, for example, but which I don't wear regularly). I also save all the Spell Tomes and area maps, as well as collectible items which can be sold to specific people (Unicorn Horns, Research Tomes, Pen & Ink, Papyrus, etc.).

And I still have absolutely every single alcehmical ingredient I have ever found.

Suffice it to say, I have a lot of items stored in Hawke's Manse. I have cleared all the nonessential items from that area (pillows, candles, wine, ale) to make sure none of the important stuff vanishes.

I have several questions:

1.) The caretaker says that any item stored in Hawke's Manse will be safe. Does that mean I can store an unlimited number of items?

2.) Up to now, I have been assuming that a stack of items counts as a single item in the eyes of the game. I have quite a few large stacks (herbs and potions), so I'm assuming I'm correct.

3.) Just how many items can be safely stored in one place?

Thank you for any feedback.

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
15,000 Coin Limit? in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Friday, April 7 2006 18:21 Profile #16
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

That's binary. The question is how many bits (ones and zeros) Jeff allotted to store the numbers. If he allotted 16 binary spaces, the numbers can go up to around 64,000. If he allotted 17 spaces, the numbers can go up to around 129,000.

This makes a little more sense if you think about it with fewer numbers. If you've got two spaces allotted, your numbers can go up to (2^2)-1=3.
00 = 0
01 = 1
10 = 2
11 = 3

If you've got three spaces allotted, your numbers can go up to (2^3)-1=7:
000 = 0
001 = 1
010 = 2
011 = 3
100 = 4
101 = 5
110 = 6
111 = 7

The pattern continues.
Ah yes, I see! Because each time you add a slot, the number of possible combinations doubles. This is one aspect of mathematics which I'm very good at. I play tabletop roleplaying games, and I also design them -- which means that I need to be able to calculate the percentage chance of getting any given number combination on a given set of dice.

Take three six-sided dice (3d6), for example. When you roll them, you can get any result from 3 to 18, but what are the odds of getting any specific number from 3-18? Figuring that out is complicated, and I have it all written down. Suffice it to say that 10 and 11 will be the most common numbers rolled, while 3 and 18 each have ~1% chance of appearing (because there is only one combination of all three dice that gives these numbers). The closer you get to 3 or 18, the lower your chances of rolling the number.

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
Hell freezes over. in General
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Friday, April 7 2006 18:06 Profile #19
BLADE RUNNER

. . . Or, "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?"

Blade Runner is my favorite movie of all time, and the book's great, too. I simply cannot resist commenting on a reference to it (i.e., Electric Sheep).

[ Friday, April 07, 2006 18:06: Message edited by: Old Scratch ]

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
15,000 Coin Limit? in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Friday, April 7 2006 18:01 Profile #14
quote:
Originally written by Micawber:

Yeah, the 64k was illustrative rather than precise; if the limit was indeed of this magnitude it would be 65536 (=2^16).
Is that hexadecimal? I'm great at practical/intuitive mathematics (calculating distances, tabulating finances, conversion formulas, et cetera), but my skill at advanced math and especially my knowledge of mathematical terminology leaves much to be desired.

I know that the formula above translates to "two to the sixteenth power", or "two multiplied by itself sixteen times in a row", but I'm not sure how that fits into computer programming or what category of mathematics it falls under.

In any case, you seem pretty knowledgeable about the subject.

quote:
In terms of game experience, my PCs in Avernum 3 have definitely exceeded 70,000 experience, so I would guess that this particular number has a maximum ~128k or even higher. Whatever.
Of course . . . because the next power of 2 after (2^16) would be (2^17), or ~128k. Heck, I guess I learned something in school after all!

quote:
To get back to the original question, for purely practical reasons there does have to be a limit of some sort, but I do think the limit Jeff has set in all three Avernum games is annoyingly and unnecessarily low.
I know! I have never -- NEVER -- exceeded 50,000 coins in the bank. And I sell every piece of loot I can get my hands on (unless it's too cheap to bother with). I make multiple trips, carting it all to the highest bidder (usually Grove the magical weaponsmith). A limit of 100,000 -- or even 50,000 or 60,000 -- would have been more than sufficient.

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
I Depend On Them All in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Friday, April 7 2006 17:48 Profile #4
quote:
Originally written by IT .:

PS Old Scratch you never answered my questoin: are you from the ambrosia boards?
Yes, I am also registered on the Ambrosia Software boards. I very much enjoy Escape Velocity: Nova; I think it could benefit from a few changes and improvements, but overall it's a wonderful game. The various add-ons and Total Conversion plug-ins don't hurt the enjoyment factor, either (although really there are only Polycon and the ports of the previous two Escape Velocities at the moment). Hopefully, some of the TCs that have been in the works for a while will be coming out soon.

[ Friday, April 07, 2006 17:51: Message edited by: Old Scratch ]

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
Pit of the Wyrm (A3) in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Thursday, April 6 2006 20:53 Profile #5
Happily, I seem to be having better luck with the Unholy Wyrms this time around. By casting a couple of Arcane Shields and . . . er, that protective priest spell (I use it so often I forget what it's called), along with Haste and War Blessing, I can pull the Unholy Wyrms one at a time and dispatch them with my fighter. A little backup from the archer and the mage (at a safe distance), not to mention constant healing from the priest, also helps a great deal.

It may have been using Arcane Shield which tipped the scales in my favor; I was going to try that anyway, but thanks for suggesting it. I had been shying away from using it in the Pit because it damages enemies, which can cause a lot of Abyssal Slimes to spawn very quickly.

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
I Depend On Them All in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Thursday, April 6 2006 18:41 Profile #0
There is no way (save cheating) anyone could defeat Avernum 3 without a mage and a priest, and a strong fighter is pretty much a given. The choice of your fourth character is optional, but an archer is pretty necessary too, because there have been many times when I've really depended on my archer.

On the one hand, it's sort of limiting; choosing to make an all-sorcerer, all-archer or all-fighter party would be certain death. An all warrior-priest party might be able to hack it, granted, but it wouldn't be a sure thing.

On the other hand, it's nice to see the characters' co-dependence. My archer is my least-necessary character, but he is still very useful, with high Nature Lore and passable defensive and melee skills.

Has anyone else had any luck with a non-standard party?

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
Pit of the Wyrm (A3) in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Thursday, April 6 2006 18:19 Profile #4
quote:
Originally written by St. Ashby the Martyr:

I think the Wyms breathe darkness (magic). I remember that they use the acid damage sound and graphic, but I don't think they actually give the acid-coated status effect. They give enfeebling instead, right?

I suggest invulnerability if the fight is troubling you, but that doesn't necessarily mean Invulnerability Potions (read as: what Neimand said).
Yeah, I did read that "Unholy Wyrm breathes darkness" during the fight. However, the text always says tht the damage comes from acid . . . I suppose using an acid graphic requires that message text to appear, which is what confused me. I don't think Magic Resistance helps, either, since Firewalker Rings give you that too.

I'm no slacker when it comes to tactics, either. The second most difficult fight I've run into was that town full of Rakshasas (nine or ten of them, at any rate), and I only had to reload a few times before defeating them. These critters are insanely more difficult.

If nothing else works, I suppose I'll try the Invulnerability Potions.

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
Pit of the Wyrm (A3) in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Thursday, April 6 2006 18:14 Profile #3
quote:
Originally written by Niemand:

The acid protection or lack thereof thing is weird. I'm afraid that I can't remember having any particular trouble with this fight myself. Is Arcane Shield any help to you? It might help you to not die as quickly. Sanctuary might come in handy too, so that they shouldn't be able to attack you until you hit them.
You didn't have any trouble with that fight? Wowzers . . . they overpower me in the same fashion that I overpower Ursagi: instantly and with extreme prejudice. I haven't tried Arcane Shield yet, but I will. Also, I don't think there's a Sanctuary spell in A3, because I know all forty spells already at level 2, or in some cases higher.

If Arcane Shield doesn't protect me from their breath weapons, nothing else I know of will. I suspect the Acid Resistance only applies to the status effect (the kind you get from slugs and Fetid Zombies and damages you each round), not pure acid damage . . . which is pretty stupid, since Fire Resistance protects against very similar breath weapons.

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
Pit of the Wyrm (A3) in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Thursday, April 6 2006 17:54 Profile #0
Okay, so I purchased the directions to the Pit of the Wyrm for 1,000 coins -- chump change. Eventually, I found the Pit, and have been waging a very long campaign, fighting my way through Augmented Giants and Abyssal Slimes to get to the lower level of the Pit, and then subsequently using insane hit-and-run tactics involving (alternately) hordes of summoned creatures to fight the Dark Wyrms and careful planning to fight the numerous Abyssal Slimes.

After much effort, I've come to a bend containing four Unholy Wyrms. I attempted to launch some sort of an assault, and was thwarted by their insane breath weapons, which do 115+ acid damage per shot; they get two shots per turn to boot, so that's quite a lot.

I says to myself, "Self, you're taking acid damage. You already have a couple of Firewalker Rings, so just buy a Basic Charm, slap it on your fighter, and send him over there with the Wyrmslayer and many enchantments to deal out some death."

I bought the Basic Charm, which cranked Algernon's (my fighter) Acid Resistance up to 90%. That means I should be taking far less damage from their acid breath weapons, right? WRONG. When I put my plan into motion, the damage was the same as before.

So now, I have four level 40 characters with great equipment, but unfortunately no way to protect them from a seemingly unbeatable breath weapon. I can't even summon creatures fast enough to prevent instant death.

My first question is, why doesn't Acid Resistance protect against acid damage? It doesn't, and that's incredibly stupid. And my second question: I'm going to have to burn up some invulnerability potions, aren't I? Because no amount of leveling up (and I don't have too far to go, really) will protect me from those breath weapons.

[ Thursday, April 06, 2006 17:58: Message edited by: Old Scratch ]

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00
15,000 Coin Limit? in The Avernum Trilogy
Old Scratch
Warrior
Member # 6977
 written Thursday, April 6 2006 13:51 Profile #11
quote:
Originally written by Micawber:

From a programming point of view, the numerical values are finite and have a fixed length. In the Avernum code I think I am right in saying that no number can exceed 64,000 values. The game enforces a cap in order to avoid weird errors - like negative gold (which has been known to happen in the Exile games).
Does that mean my characters can't accrue more than 64,000 experience points? That worries me a bit, since all of them have sizeable experience point penalties -- 35%, 30%, 30%, and 25%, to be exact. I thought that you gained a level for every 1,000 experience points, but the numbers don't seem to add up. Instead of docking XP as they are distributed, the game seems to give you full XP and simply increase the number of XP needed to reach the next level; that is, I'll have 44,000 XP but the character's level will be in the late thirties (instead of 44).

If 64,000 is the value limit, then that really sucks, because all of my characters will only be able to get to level 40-something. The game documentation says that the number of levels you can attain are effectively unlimited . . . was that untrue?

[ Thursday, April 06, 2006 13:52: Message edited by: Old Scratch ]

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Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Thursday, March 30 2006 08:00

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