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Phaedra in Blades of Avernum
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Wednesday, April 13 2005 17:21 Profile Homepage #93
I don't think this topic is just about that one character in particular anymore, somehow.

I think there's a difference between dressing to look pretty and dressing to look sexy.

Dressing to look sexy does send a message out. It tells people "I don't mind that I'm encouraging every other guy to have dirty thoughts about me". Whether you want them to think those things or simply don't care, it does show that you aren't adverse to being thought of as a sex object.

True, there a number of guys (probably a very large number) who are just looking for something to perv at, and will be doing the whole dirty thoughts thing whether you're walking around in a string bikini or just wearing a tight shirt. But what can you do?

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SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Goal or Rushed Behind? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Wednesday, April 13 2005 15:36 Profile Homepage #13
That is an insanely unfair portrayal of a great sport. There is not nearly as much fighting as you imply. In most games a couple of guys will have a bit of a push and shove, but a full blooded punch is hardly ever thrown. This is because it's against the rules and you'll get suspended for a few games if you do it. I have a lot of respect for boxing, but the two sports have almost nothing in common.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Favorite Author in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Tuesday, April 12 2005 23:21 Profile Homepage #1
No Tolkein?

No Victor Hugo?

I protest.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Goal or Rushed Behind? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Tuesday, April 12 2005 19:14 Profile Homepage #8
quote:
Originally written by The Stew Boy:

You must be mad.
I have a piece of paper that says I'm sane. Do you?

Also:

quote:
Originally written by The Stew Boy:

...I don't watch football... It's too dangerous.
Sorry, couldn't resist. :P

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Goal or Rushed Behind? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Tuesday, April 12 2005 18:30 Profile Homepage #6
It is also the best sport in existence.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Goal or Rushed Behind? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Tuesday, April 12 2005 15:51 Profile Homepage #2
quote:
Originally written by The Stew Boy:

I am Australian, but I don't watch football, nor do I play it. It's too dangerous.
Wimp. Hardly anyone dies playing footy.

Unfortunately, I didn't see that game. However, the Brisbane/Sydney match was an absolute ripper (for the second half, at least).

And I can't wait to see how the foreigners react to the term 'rushed behind'. :P

[ Tuesday, April 12, 2005 15:52: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Phaedra in Blades of Avernum
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Sunday, April 10 2005 21:16 Profile Homepage #51
This topic is utterly hilarious.

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SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 21:37 Profile Homepage #183
Maybe it's because I don't understand high-level physics at all, but it seems pretty obvious to me what's physical and what's not. Physical is... stuff. You can manipulate it. You can directly observe it.

No, that's not a definition, it's a description.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 21:09 Profile Homepage #181
While I wouldn't call them objects, I'd say those things are definitely physical.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
New Abortion Laws in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 20:46 Profile Homepage #296
I have trouble with the concept of 'somewhat living', personally. I can understand 'living, but not conscious'. I can understand 'living, but not worth protecting'. 'Somewhat living' throws me.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
New Abortion Laws in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 20:31 Profile Homepage #294
If he's not 'alive', would it matter whether there's a good reason to pull the plug or not? Couldn't it be done on a whim with no moral repurcussions?

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
What Movies Are You Looking Forward To? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 20:26 Profile Homepage #23
From what I hear, Sin City is virtually a shot for shot film version of the comics. Same angles and all that.

I won't see it. When a film contains multiple castrations, you know it's gone past the regular run-of-the-mill movie violence.

I will, however, see the Hitchhiker movie. I love the books, and the trailer cracked me up (The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy has this to say about movie trailers...).

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 20:14 Profile Homepage #179
Well, if you want to nail it down:

God is a supernatural being. Has no physical body, but still *exists*.

A miracle is a natural event with a supernatural cause. There is a change in the natural world - a guy starts breathing again, for example - but nothing happened in the physical world to cause that.

Prayer is something that happens in correlation with miracles, but is not necessarily a cause of miracles. Asking for a lolly may or may not result in you getting a lolly. You may be given a lolly even if you don't ask for one. Either way, though, the cause was the person who decided whether or not to give you the lolly.

I don't think it's impossible for the physical world to influence the supernatural world - or to be more specific, for the supernatural world to react to the physical world.

Information is an interesting one, but I'd say that it only exists in our minds. Which is fine, because that's where it counts. Do words mean anything when there's no one to read them? I'm sure this could lead to quite an interesting discussion, but I don't think it's related to the supernatural world. I suppose that since memory = information and memory can be destroyed by physical actions, it would be fair to say that information is a part of the physical world, and that part is a certain section of our brains.

Hope that cleared it up somewhat?

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
New Abortion Laws in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 19:51 Profile Homepage #292
Okay, Kel. So let's say that, as a hypothetical, some guy went into a vegitative state. As Thuryl says, alive but bereft of a life. However, the doctors could tell he would come out of it in stages, and would eventually return to perfect health with close to 100% certainty. Would you see anything wrong with pulling the plug on him in that situation?

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 19:40 Profile Homepage #177
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

quote:
Eh?
If that's in relation to the intercessory-prayer thing, what I'm asking is, if both the prayed-for group and the non-prayed-for group are already getting the benefit of millions of general prayers for the sick that people all around the world are making every day, how are a few dozen extra prayers going to make a noticeable difference?

quote:
And what's pantheism again?
Equating God with the universe, or with an impersonal universal organising principle.

quote:
I define 'supernatural' as being outside the physical world. But as I said, it's just a case of labels. If you have a different word to mean that, use it.
Well, then you have to define "physical", and we could be at that all day. The text of a book or a program stored on a computer has a particular physical form, but its meaning is independent of that specific physical structure. Does that make information supernatural?
I'll leave the first point aside. I think it's more or less irrelevant. For example, it would be hopeless attempting to prove that every prayer has the same value. :P

You make a good point about information. My definiton was obviously incomplete. But ultimately, it's still just about labels, and I think you know what I meant. (and no, I'm not a pantheist by any stretch :P )

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 19:25 Profile Homepage #174
Eh?

And what's pantheism again?

I define 'supernatural' as being outside the physical world. But as I said, it's just a case of labels. If you have a different word to mean that, use it.

EDIT: Man, this topic is quick.

Thuryl - It may be true that it's impossible to determine the exact power of prayer for the reasons you cite. It should, however, be possible to determine whether miraculous healing happens.

As for the placebo effect, there are of course many reports of dramatic healings that can't be explained by psychological wellbeing. Again, it should be possible to scientifically determine whether it's reasonable to assume that these actually happen.

[ Saturday, April 09, 2005 19:32: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 19:19 Profile Homepage #170
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

quote:
Actually, I don't agree. If you pray for a miracle, and believe God will do it, and he does, you've just predicted a miracle.
If it's known that a certain kind of miracle can be brought about by a certain kind of prayer, in what sense is it still a supernatural event? I don't see a fundamental difference between knowing that flipping a switch will probably turn a lightbulb on and knowing that praying for rain will probably cause rain.
Semantics. If it's not 'supernatural' by your definition, so be it. Instead of calling it a supernatural event, say God did it, and God is not exactly 'supernatural', or whatever you wish.

EDIT: *i, no, I would not say prayer is necessary. It does seem to help, though.

[ Saturday, April 09, 2005 19:22: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 19:13 Profile Homepage #169
quote:
Originally written by *i:

A comparison to mechanics is invalid, I can test mechanics over and over again to the point where I would be a complete idiot to disbelieve it.
Well, that's why I said testing was the trouble.

[quote]As far as ball lightning, there is some theoretical belief that it could work, although it is quite crude. The answer to your question is that ball lightning can be tested (in principle) whereas a diety cannot unless it lends itself to it or other evidence is found.[/quote]Wouldn't investigating the evidence and checking to see whether it seems likely a miracle actually did occur be a reasonable test? It's not laboratory science, but I would think it would be reasonable. As Alorael says, if a guy actually does come back from the dead in the modern day, there ought to be enough evidence to substantiate it - unless, of course, we start talking about faked lab results and death certificates and stuff.

Or you could do something with one of those evangelical guys who go around and people claim to be healed by them and so on. Get people who are suffering from an affliction, test them medically, and test them again after they've been prayed for. Do a large number of these and see what the results are.

Or heck, do some sort of test on speaking in tongues. That's common enough to be testable.

Hmm, what's my point here? Oh yeah. I think it's possible to get a certain amount of data about such things, even though they can't be reproduced in the laboratory. I think they should be tested in as scientific a manner as possible.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 18:45 Profile Homepage #166
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

I think you've hit on the core of the problem with miracles right there. Perhaps I spoke too strongly in saying that the concept of a miracle includes inherent impossibility, but I think you'll agree that a miracle must by definition be an inherently unpredictable event. After all, a miracle is a supernatural event, and the very essence of nature is that our observations of it follow predictable laws.
Actually, I don't agree. If you pray for a miracle, and believe God will do it, and he does, you've just predicted a miracle.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
New Abortion Laws in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 18:33 Profile Homepage #289
Thuryl - Care to elaborate?

IMHO - The trouble there comes with your definition of autonomy. The fetus needs to be in a particular environment with particular things provided to survive, but then, we all do. What seperates the fetus from a guy with a pacemaker, in that regard? Or for that matter, a guy who needs to live in an oxygen-rich environment (i.e. everyone)?

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 18:11 Profile Homepage #162
quote:
Originally written by *i:

If said event did occur, then it could be studied. I think it is a bit tentative to say that science could not conjure an answer. I would not underestimate our analytical tools once there is something concrete to analyze.

There is no rule that says gods cannot be part of the universe. If there was good evidence for it, then they could be incorporated.
Er, yes. I should have phrased that differently.

If a guy did definitely come back from the dead and was now in perfect health, I'm not sure what you'd study, though. But your point is taken.

EDIT: Regarding mechanics, the actual theory behind miracles is really pretty simple. God exists, God is all-powerful, God occasionally performs miracles. It's testing it that's the trouble - a.l.a. your ball lightning example.

So suppose I rephrase my question. For you, what's the difference between the possibility of miracles and the possibility of ball lightning? Keep in mind here that I don't actually know anything about the latter. :P

P.S. Thanks for your patience.

[ Saturday, April 09, 2005 18:26: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 18:07 Profile Homepage #160
quote:
Originally written by Dolphin:

Why is it assumed to be an act of God, or a miracle just because it can't be explained? Perhaps some things could be classified as miracles, but is it not possible that people just want to see a miracle?

If God gave us free will, and free reign of our lives why would it intervene every time someone gets a brain tumor or is hit by a car? What about those who don't receive a spontaneous cure? Are they assumed to be unworthy of said miracle?
There are plenty of instances when something unexplained happens and people don't call it a miracle. Usually when it is called a miracle it's because that person prayed for healing or something like that.

God certainly does not intervene every time someone gets a brain tumour or is hit by a car. Either that, or he has a very low success rate. :P

Why so-and-so, and not such-and-such? No idea. I could guess, but they would be completely hypothetical answers. The cop out answer is to say "Who can know the mind of God?" and wave your hands a bit. It's not aswering the question as much as saying the question is unanswerable, but it is a valid, if unsatisfying, response.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 17:55 Profile Homepage #158
(sorry for the double and possibly triple post)

*i - I agree completely with your assessment of why the moonlandings are reasonable to accept. However, the only thing I saw in your post (correct me if I'm wrong) that seperates those people who claim it never happened from your claim that miracles have never happened is that space travel already fits with your worldview.

I could extend this to say that since I accept God exists, miracles are quite plausible given my understanding of the world and thus the proof that I see is sufficient. Would this be reasonable?

I suppose your response to that would be that all we have here is anecdotal evidence, which is insufficient on its own. Fair enough. Keeping the moon comparison in mind, how much more evidence would need to be offered before it became a reasonable possibility in your eyes?

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 17:41 Profile Homepage #156
quote:
Originally written by 1001011001000:

quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:
Someone says God cured him from drugs - took away the cravings, he didn't suffer any withdrawl, any of that stuff. Well, he's deluded. The body is complicated, there must be another explanation. Or maybe his memory is messed up - hey, he did drugs, right? Either that or he's lying. People lie all the time, and miracles just don't happen, so it's more likely that he's lying. Can't think of a reason for him to lie, but then, he'd want to keep that quiet. Or maybe by telling himself this miracle story, it's easier for him to keep himself off drugs.
Hmmm, miracles can't happen, because they're impossible because there is no god. Therefore, there must be an almost unfeasable explanation to justify that any of the thousands of miracles reported every year never happened. All of the recipients of these so-called "miracles" either have abnormal bodies, are insane, or are lying for some odd reason. Or something. Yeah, that's it! Now I can say that miracles aren't real! Yay, take that Ben and Gizmo!

Fixed your typo.
I award you the grand prize for missing the point.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Saturday, April 9 2005 17:37 Profile Homepage #155
quote:
Originally written by Levitating Netherlander:

If miracles happen, what is there that's miraculous about them? Suppose people just randomly and spontaneously recovered from massive brain tumours extremely often, with no reasonable biological explanation forthcoming. Would that constitute evidence for miracles? I'd argue the answer is clearly no; it'd just be seen as some freaky stuff that happened. Now, why should something happening very rarely be better evidence for its existence than something happening very often?
Oh, so you meant that thing you said earlier? I thought you said it just because it sounded cool. :P

I think it's largely a matter of semantics. If you define a miracle as something that is *actually impossible* than no one is going to argue that they happen. Substitute the word 'miracle' for 'supernatural intervention' if you prefer.

So let's say something that would appear to be impossible happens - say a guy comes back to life - and there is no doubt whatsoever that it *actually* happened. As you point out, the regularity of such occurances is irrelevant.

You can wave your hands and say "We can't explain it, but it happened, so it must be possible without supernatural intervention." or you can say "It happened, science has no answer, so some supernatural force must have gotten involved here."

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00

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