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how to develop a scenario? in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #2
Err, yeah... the tutorial that comes with the BoA editor documentation is so short it's nearly nonexistent. I really don't see how anyone who hopes to design scenarios could consider it too lengthy. It needed to be at least 10 times longer and actually cover scripting to some extent to be of much use.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Article - bjlhct2 On Scenario Design pt 1: Linearity in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #2
What bjlhct2 is a little unpolished for something meant to explain concepts to other people, but what he does say makes perfect sense.

Linearity is just plain bad, though of course something completely open ended is impractical.

Basically I think people are going to be divided into at least three major camps here. We have the storytellers (linear, cutscene, backstory and other creator-focused aspects), the interactivists (a wide range of choices, immersive reality, suspense and other character-focused aspects) and the gamers (tactics, stats, power-ups and other player-focused aspects). You can mix some of them together, and probably should to soome extent, but people usually land squarely in one or another.

Most game designers in other CRPGs and RPGS are either activists or gamers, with a few notable exceptions here and there. For some unknown reason this community is dominated by the storytellers, though I'd hazard a guess that it's because that mindset is more typical of younger and less experienced designers.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Article - Party vs. Designer in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #10
By the way, why are these articles posted to the Blades of Avernum folder and not the Blades of Avernum Editor folder?
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Article - Party vs. Designer in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #8
I have to strongly agrgee with SkeleTony here and expand on what he said.

These are games, and the whole point is to give the players as much control as possible and for them to have fun, not for you to tell a story. Every cut scene, locked door, restricted geography, unavoidable encounter, forced decision and so forth is tearing down a piece of the interactivity that makes a game a good game.

The question is how to balance it. You can take some control away, as long as you don't take away the illusion of control. Some people don't even try, and those people are bad scenario designers. They may be good pixellated movie directors (not even that from what I've seen though), but they are just plain awful game designers.

The "You'll find that some designers are better storytellers when you yourself aren't trying to write everything on your own." comment is especially ridiculous. If you want to tell a story, write a book or go to film school and assault people there with your grand ideas. Don't pull the poor players by their nose hairs through tedious testaments to your ego and L33t programming skills.

The "Party vs. Designer" debate is no contest: Party, or else you shouldn't even bother.

Now if someone wants to make a Drive in Movie series where people can download files and sit in their virtual cars and watch events the creator envisioned unfold with minimal input, hey, great. That's fine as long as you advertise it as such and don't go around claiming to be a game designer.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Graphic Requests... in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #30
It never ceases to amaze me that people will chime in so emotionally on topics they obviously have no knowledge of. You might want to pay attention:

*Photocopiers have plenty of legitimate uses, so they are not illegal.
*Stealing from those who steal does not make it right.
*The fact that the people that got ripped off don't know about it doesn't mean that it's right.
*Just because you do not make money off of something you stole does NOT make it "Fair Use." You should learn what the terms mean before you try to use them.
*The fact that other people got away with breaking the law in the past does not make it right.
*A bunch of spoiled kids who don't give a damn about breaking the law doesn't mean they are justified.

And I'm especially appalled that the same posters and moderators who complained about Overwhelming (who was not charging money either, so the failed undestanding of Fair Use mentioned above obviously is wrong) are the same people trying to rationalize this theft away. Stareye gleefully hopped in and disconnected Overwhelming's links right away but now sits around doing nothing about this. Kelandon was all happy to learn about the DMCA when Overwhelming could be shut down, but doesn't care about this at all. And of course, TM, who told Overwhelming to remove his scenarios, acts all cocky even though it's completely unjustified, per his usual standards.

I guess some people never learn unless the smackdown lands on their own heads personally. Overwhelming didn't think anything would happen to him, but he was wrong too.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Graphic Requests... in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #19
Yes, there is a difference between legally wrong and ethically wrong, but taking graphics without permission is wrong both ways.

Someone above claims that it's only wrong if you claim them as your own. This is wrong. That's an error picked up from kids in school who learn that it's OK to reference other articles and items when writing a report, and that not referencing them is plagiarizing. That's true, but copyright is something different. Taking a graphic that isn't yours and saying who did it is just advertising who you stole it from, not anything that makes it OK.

Simple rule: You can't just take other people's things, and you can't just assume they don;t have a problem with it if you do, even if you give them credit. Theft is theft, and claiming that nobody cares is nothing but a lie you tell yourself to try to rationalize something that's clearly wrong.

And now since TM has admitted that his scenarios violate these laws, his stuff needs to be pulled.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Graphic Requests... in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #15
I am appalled at the complete lack of understanding of how copyright law works and the blatant disregard many of the posters here have for the topic in general.

Taking someone else's graphics without permission is stealing. If the person you stole it from stole it from someone else originally it doesn't make your theft anymore acceptable. Modifying them slightly does not give you a new copyright that overrules the original copyright. Using them in a game does not make them parody and wipe out the copyright concern (that has got to be the most ludicrously misinformed idea I've seen yet in trying to authorize theft).

Of course the most reprehensible concept of all is from those who seem to think it's bad for someone that isn;t as well liked to rip something off from a regular poster here but perfectly OK for longtime posters here to steal from someone you don't know. That's nothing but selfishly ignorant gang mentality.

This being the Internet, and with most of the people here being raised on a Napster mentality that theft is fine as long as you don't get caught, I guess I shouldn't have expected much from the regulars here. But Jeff is old enough and professional enough to know better and understand legal implications. Jeff's software runs that code that makes the scenarios possible, and his company owns this site. The admins and moderators have to run a board in compliance with the law, even if some of the posters here encourage breaking it.

With that in mind, can we have an admin, moderator, company rep or Jeff himself show up and tell the kids to grow up and follow the law, or what?
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Graphic Requests... in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #8
What do you mean nobody cares? You can't assume that. If you ask, and they say it's OK, that's fine, otherwise you are breaking the law. The fact that somebody hasn't caught you yet doesn't make it right.

Your blatant disregard for ethics is troubling. I know that if it was something I owned a copyright on that you stole and used in a game scenario, I'd be getting any and all websites that hosted that scenario to take it down or face a C&D. If you want your scenarios hosted on the main Spiderweb Software site, you better not be ripping people off or else Jeff could get in trouble for it.

So you say you've done it plenty of times... Does that mean your current scenarios are littered with copyright violations? If so, it seems to me then that the moderators here need to follow the same policy they used with Overwhelming and remove the links to your sites until you replace those graphics with images you didn't steal.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Graphic Requests... in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #3
Ripped off Google?

So copyright violations is what you are saying.

Between the two copyright controversies here lately you'd think people would start catching on that you can't just take other people's images and use them.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
First Aid skill: anything good about it? in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #0
I know Jeff talks about working hard to balance game elements, but I don't get at all how First Aid skill is supposed to fit in. As far as I can tell, it has no redeemable value whatsoever. It:

*Requires carrying around objects that need to be found or purchased that disappear upon use.

*Can end up accidentally causing harm instead of healing, and at a rate that seems way too often.

*Requires you to actually be standing next to the person you are trying to heal (heck, even unlocking doors can be done from across the room as long as one person is in the right location).

*Is a skill that is a one-trick pony, unlike Priest Magic, which gives you access to lots and lot of spells with varying utility, but most importantly healing that doesn't accidentally harm someone, can be done across the room, doesn't require an item you have to carry around, buy, find and use up, and so forth.

Is there any possible reason anyone can think of to allocate points to it? I just don't see it.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Illegal distribution on the BoAC in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #69
Overwhelming is back and still claiming to be right... bringing clueless to whole new amazing levels.

Dude, you aren't doing the Blades of Avernum community a service by releasing other people's software, scipts, articles and so forth without their permission. Stubborn lack of understanding of the law only counts as an excuse just so far. But then you already admitted you had no legal right to put up other people's articles without permission, and you purposefully kept those up anyway just to piss him off, knowingly breaking the law in the process.

Any claims you try to make to be the victim here are sheer nonsense.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Illegal distribution on the BoAC in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #53
quote:
Yes, Jeff has the right to do this, but Overwhelming does not.
You two are arguing the same point. I'm fairly certain his statement pointing that out was specifically a reply to someone earlier who claimed that someone could keep their scenario away from Jeff by not submitting it to him. He is pointing out that Jeff, by the license, has rights to distribute them whether the author wants it or not, which is what you just said when you thought you were contradicting him.

No need to squabble when you are saying the same thing.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Illegal distribution on the BoAC in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #52
Actually, VCH, it's too late for that. Overwhelming's entire site has been taken down by the host because he refused to remove the copyrighted materials.

Hopefully that will also mean he won't be back here claiming that we don't know what we are talking about. Everyone, including the host, knew it was illegal, contrary to his ranting and raving.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Illegal distribution on the BoAC in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #48
quote:
But will this really be the end? What is to stop Overwhelming from making a new site elsewhere?
Hopefully the realization that putting up rogue websites for a topic that is inherently community-based doesn't work. Not to mention that creating a new site would be a lot of work just to get shut down again right away if he violates someone's copyrights, now that people know how to file a complaint. (And keep in mind that if he should go with a host outside of the US, many of them will shut down pirate sites if they are reported as a violation of their rules.)
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Illegal distribution on the BoAC in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #42
quote:
To those who, apparently, didn't bother the read well the laws involved, I just say the laws are on my side.
Your ignorance is overwhelming.

Simply put, you don't know what the heck you are talking about and you foolishly insist that it's the rest of the world that has it wrong. Hopefully you'll learn your lesson on this and adjust your behavior, because you could get into serious legal trouble in the future pulling stunts like this.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
O.K...("?")... in General
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #15
I'm sorry, but if you believe there are no right answers than you might as well not be asking questions, because you can just come up with whatever nonsense you think up. If you want to live that way that's fine, but you shouldn't be proud of your ignorance.

It sounds more like you just need to grow up, so maybe there's help for you yet.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Illegal distribution on the BoAC in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #36
quote:
But the DMCA is an abominably pernicious threat to society!
No, actually, the DMCA has a lot of parts to it, and most of them were very good and then long overdue. But then some people just don't have anything better to do than get all morally outraged over topics they don;t understand.

Take the current example. Someone places someone else's copyrighted work up on a site without authorization. The DMCA is the only practical way to force the individual breaking the law to take it down without spending thousands of dollars in legal fees each and every time it happens. Otherwise the crooks just thumb their noses and get away with it because they know most people won't spend that kind of dough.

As far as Overwhelming here goes, the time for threats is over, since he's obviously too dumb or too arrogant to listen to reason. Contact the site host and get them to take the site down if all of the offending material is not removed. He can't say he wasn't warned.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
O.K...("?")... in General
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #12
Here's what the Straight Dope has to say about it:
www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_250

The right answer has already been posted (Oll Korrect), so giving alternate answers is pointless. So if you heard somewhere from someone of questionable authority that it really meant something else, that's fine, but it's wrong and a waste of time.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Illegal distribution on the BoAC in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #31
And let me reiterate, Overwhelming, that you don;t have the slightest idea how the law works on these matters, so you continuing to claim that he only has the right to ask that the articles be removed and nothing else shows sheer stubborn ignorance and arrogance. It's like being caught by a traffic cop speeding, drinking and driving, with both tail lights out on an expired license and then flippantly telling the cop that none of that is his business but you might consider slowing down if he asks nicely. The correct response here is to say you're sorry and to do what you are told (take everything down that you were asked to take down) instead of acting cocky.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Illegal distribution on the BoAC in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #20
Actually, Overwhelming, it's not a good idea to be a stickler for details when you don't understand the details.

For example, on the scripts, Spiderweb Software lets people adapt them. Thus the new script has two copyrights: the original, which Jeff lets people use for making scenarios, and the new one for new material added. Yes, it's derivative, which means the derivative parts (the original ones) are still owned by Jeff but the new parts have new copyrights. You do not have the right to distribute the new scripts without BOTH copyright owners' permission.

But the bottom line here is that you can try to fight over the small details or you can DO THE RIGHT THING and take those items off your site that you did not create and the creator demanded you take down. And if you refuse to do the right thing, be prepared to face some difficulties due to your willingness to infringe upon other people's rights.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Response to Community Suggestion List in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #11
You know, I really think the tone of a lot of these posts is very unhelpful. Jeff is not "lazy" if he doesn't get around to doing these things, he's just concentrating on the projects most likely to support his business and family. I mean, am I allowed to call you lazy if you don't drop everything and come spend a week building me a log cabin?

The antaganism I see here over and over isn't going to accomplish anything. Jeff's not going to do what you want just because you insult him or claim that it'd be easy or important or whatever for him to do something. He's far more likely to be helpful if you treat him with respect and try to understand his situation. Childish namecalling and stomping of feet is far more likely to just put anything you say down on the lowest rung of the priority list.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Response to Community Suggestion List in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #11
You know, I really think the tone of a lot of these posts is very unhelpful. Jeff is not "lazy" if he doesn't get around to doing these things, he's just concentrating on the projects most likely to support his business and family. I mean, am I allowed to call you lazy if you don't drop everything and come spend a week building me a log cabin?

The antaganism I see here over and over isn't going to accomplish anything. Jeff's not going to do what you want just because you insult him or claim that it'd be easy or important or whatever for him to do something. He's far more likely to be helpful if you treat him with respect and try to understand his situation. Childish namecalling and stomping of feet is far more likely to just put anything you say down on the lowest rung of the priority list.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Illegal distribution on the BoAC in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #9
aliklik, sorry, but you don't understand how copyright works at all. You pay to REGISTER a copyright nationally. Copyrights DO NOT have to be nationally registered. Most countries in the world recognize that the simple act of creating something automatically gives you a legal copyright the moment you make it. Asasuming Blades of Avernum Center is based in one of those countries, he is breaking the law by refusing to remove the material.

A lawsuit would cost a lot of money, but it is something that could be done. Beyond that, if the BoAC website is hosted on a server based in the United States, you can file a DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act of 1998) violation notice with the host and have the site yanked if the copyrighted materials are not removed within 24 hours, by federal law. If it's not in the US, you can try complaining to the host anyway, and some of them will still shut them down.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
History of the community in General
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #35
I have to agree with Solodric. I'm new here, but so far have been rather unimpressed with the replies old-timers give out to people in the threads I've seen.

There is such a thing as constructive criticism, helpful comments, and just plain common sense. Without those it's a rather unfriendly place, and then the scenario developing community suffers and you don;t get as many to play.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00
Turn off Light (in dungeon) in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 5415
Profile #5
I was reading the announcements Jeff made about what the BoA editor would be able to do, and I think he specifically said turning off light levels was something he was going to add the capacity for. It would be a shame if it isn't possible.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00

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