Graphic Requests...
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Monday, February 21 2005 18:31
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I am looking for (and will most definitely need): * A large pic- the kind you see in the inventory display- of an Ursag (Why, you ask...? Fwuahahaha!) * A monster graphic for a hunter (although I could get away with using Jean if need be) * Some bear dialogue pics (although if you're just going to use google, don't bother; I can do that myself) * A heavily-armored Rakshasi * Convincing (read as: Not awful) golden walls All of these will help. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3605
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 00:10
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I think you just gave away you scenario. -------------------- "But The Damage is Irreversible" Posts: 358 | Registered: Monday, October 27 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5322
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 03:39
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 my attempt on the wall. just a simple color-edit, but meh. i'll try adding windows if you need me to. oh, and i've 7 bear dialog pics done. they're ripped of google, sure, but edited, resized and ready to be used. so just say if you'd like to take a look. [ Tuesday, February 22, 2005 07:42: Message edited by: kendl ] Posts: 73 | Registered: Saturday, December 25 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5415
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 12:32
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Ripped off Google? So copyright violations is what you are saying. Between the two copyright controversies here lately you'd think people would start catching on that you can't just take other people's images and use them. Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 12:51
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Well, it depends. Some sites give explicit permission for the images to be used. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 13:08
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It's for a shareware game that nobody buys. Believe me, I've ripped off of google image searches many times before- Nobody cares. Anywho, post/email (to terrorsmartyr (at) wi.rr.com ) the graphics as you produce them at your leisure. PS- These graphics requests don't "give away" the scenario. Not even close. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 14:44
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By the way, have you been working at all on IoB:TF, or did you scrap that idea? -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 14:59
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This is, no lie, the tenth (plus) time I've had to explain it. I had it years ago, and then the editor destroyed the EXS. I haven't restarted it since, and I most definitely have no plans of doing so. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5415
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 22:00
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What do you mean nobody cares? You can't assume that. If you ask, and they say it's OK, that's fine, otherwise you are breaking the law. The fact that somebody hasn't caught you yet doesn't make it right. Your blatant disregard for ethics is troubling. I know that if it was something I owned a copyright on that you stole and used in a game scenario, I'd be getting any and all websites that hosted that scenario to take it down or face a C&D. If you want your scenarios hosted on the main Spiderweb Software site, you better not be ripping people off or else Jeff could get in trouble for it. So you say you've done it plenty of times... Does that mean your current scenarios are littered with copyright violations? If so, it seems to me then that the moderators here need to follow the same policy they used with Overwhelming and remove the links to your sites until you replace those graphics with images you didn't steal. Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5322
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 01:22
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oh gosh. facing a lawsuit for stealing graphics from a geocities-user who's quite damn likely stolen the graphics him- or herself is NOT what i want. a, dreamguy, you make me laugh, here. but i won't send the graphics, then, if it ruins the world as you know it. :-) also, comparing tm and overwhelming is ridiculous and unneeded, and you know it. Posts: 73 | Registered: Saturday, December 25 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 01:44
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Oh, DreamGuy, be serious. Nobody cares about ethics except in matters that directly affect someone they care about. Even the BoAC issue was decided as much by forum politics as by legal rightness -- it was only the hard line Overwhelming took, and his consequent loss of community support, that encouraged us to take advantage of our legal position. Legally, we all slip sometimes. We all break the speed limit occasionally if we drive, 90% of us have used pirated software at some point, and a majority of us have used or will use illicit substances at some point in our lives. Ethically, we're even further from perfection, at least under most people's ethical systems. Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 02:57
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Every image from the web used in Avernum is transformed for Blades of Avernum. It can be argued it is not the original image. Plus there is no money changing hands. Furthermore, you are putting it into a game which is parody-- making the image a joke for the amusement and entertainment of others. The court would consider many of the arguments happening here a joke. It is like taking an image of Mickey Mouse or your neighbors pet cat and putting it into the game DOOM. This is perfectly legal. It may be unethical but a court would laugh at you and be amused if it was brought in front of them. You stole my image of a hot dog, shrunk it down to size and put it into a game mod which didn't make any money for the creator of the game mod. People may get incensed about someone stealing their image. It is ethical to ask people before using their stuff. But, if the image is transformed considerably or used for parody-- basically humorous entertainment it is perfectly legal. And it may be considered even more entertaining if people get MAD-- like the magazine. It would be different if it was an image or work created specifically for the game. Then it would be up to the community to make the decision and would be protected under copyright. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 05:48
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Stealing graphics and music has long been a pillar of the game maker communities. Look at the zillions of SNES rips for RPG Maker 2000 if you don't believe me. Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 07:12
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It would be nice to, at the very least, give credit to the person who made the graphics you're using, though. That's generally what we do in this community when we use other people's BoE/A graphics, and I think the same should be done when using non-BoE/A graphics as BoE/A graphics. -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5512
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 07:53
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the only time 'stealing' graphics is a problem (and hence, uneithical, in my view point) is if you claim it as your own. A friend of mine does some pretty decent bryce work, and one i stumbled across a site using one of his images as the background. The site even said 'i made the background image, aint it nifty?' now THAT is wrong and unethical. Googling images to take them apart and use them as a combination of other images... is perfectly legal. 50% rule. If over 50% of the image i changed then its no longer the same image. I think TM was refering to someone googling 'bear' and croping it to the approrpiate size. He would rather have someone draw a bear for him, as he cant do that himself -------------------- Gir! What did you do with the Guidance chip? I took it out to make room for the CUPCAKE!!!!! Posts: 30 | Registered: Thursday, February 17 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5415
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 13:14
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I am appalled at the complete lack of understanding of how copyright law works and the blatant disregard many of the posters here have for the topic in general. Taking someone else's graphics without permission is stealing. If the person you stole it from stole it from someone else originally it doesn't make your theft anymore acceptable. Modifying them slightly does not give you a new copyright that overrules the original copyright. Using them in a game does not make them parody and wipe out the copyright concern (that has got to be the most ludicrously misinformed idea I've seen yet in trying to authorize theft). Of course the most reprehensible concept of all is from those who seem to think it's bad for someone that isn;t as well liked to rip something off from a regular poster here but perfectly OK for longtime posters here to steal from someone you don't know. That's nothing but selfishly ignorant gang mentality. This being the Internet, and with most of the people here being raised on a Napster mentality that theft is fine as long as you don't get caught, I guess I shouldn't have expected much from the regulars here. But Jeff is old enough and professional enough to know better and understand legal implications. Jeff's software runs that code that makes the scenarios possible, and his company owns this site. The admins and moderators have to run a board in compliance with the law, even if some of the posters here encourage breaking it. With that in mind, can we have an admin, moderator, company rep or Jeff himself show up and tell the kids to grow up and follow the law, or what? Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 13:18
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quote:I'm fairly sure that no such rule is recognised by law. As long as any of your work is based on another person's, your new work is legally a derivative work and requires the copyright holder's permission. The fact that it's unlikely you'll get caught, and even more unlikely the person you're caught by will take any action against you, is another issue entirely. Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 13:29
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Dreamguy, there is a significant difference between legally wrong and ethically wrong. You are certainly right about the law. However, posting someone else's work is ethically a problem mostly when the author/artist/whatever would be upset by the use of the work. That's why this issue meets with a certain apathy, whereas my issue with Overwhelming didn't: the artists who made the images that have been used most likely would not care. I propose that we enforce a policy (as much as possible, which may be not much) that a designer must have at least sent an e-mail to the appropriate person whose work is being used in order for that work to be an accepted scenario on the SW tables and in the contest (or any future ones). Images on the Louvre or ones obviously made for BoE/A are of course exempt. I propose enforcing this relatively loosely, and if it ever becomes a problem, to deal with it more strictly and of course follow the wishes of any artist who shows up with any request to remove any images s/he created. As far as I know, the only person whom this will affect immediately is TM. Basically, we should require that designers make a reasonable effort to get permission for images used. The unfortunate thing is that we don't actually run the SW tables, so enforcement may be, er, tricky. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 13:38
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The most amazing thing is that you think I- or the person who made the art (or usually just took the photo), or the members of the community for that matter- care about a 64x64 pic. DreamGuy, the only thing you're doing is giving yourself carpral tunnel syndrome. PS- RoR, EM and Canopy all have "illegal" graphics on them, and are also on the SW tables. Why anybody cares seems to be more of an excuse to raise useless noise than anything else. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5415
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 13:44
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Yes, there is a difference between legally wrong and ethically wrong, but taking graphics without permission is wrong both ways. Someone above claims that it's only wrong if you claim them as your own. This is wrong. That's an error picked up from kids in school who learn that it's OK to reference other articles and items when writing a report, and that not referencing them is plagiarizing. That's true, but copyright is something different. Taking a graphic that isn't yours and saying who did it is just advertising who you stole it from, not anything that makes it OK. Simple rule: You can't just take other people's things, and you can't just assume they don;t have a problem with it if you do, even if you give them credit. Theft is theft, and claiming that nobody cares is nothing but a lie you tell yourself to try to rationalize something that's clearly wrong. And now since TM has admitted that his scenarios violate these laws, his stuff needs to be pulled. Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, January 20 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 148
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 13:54
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I do know that some of those graphics TM used are from people who ripped off other people. The cycle continues. -------------------- My ego is bigger than yours. Posts: 480 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 14:00
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quote:Our sense of right and wrong derives mostly from fear of punishment, whether ingrained by early conditioning or justified by actual enforcement of the rules. Since nobody here (including, apparently, the maintainers of the SW scenario tables) actually cares enough about whether TM has infringed against certain laws to pull his scenarios, your pontificating doesn't do much for us. When God Almighty and His angels descend from on high to smite TM for his sins, maybe you'll have good cause to say "I told you so". Until then, keep your crusading to where it's appreciated. Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 14:05
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It's worth noting that if you actually found an artist who was irritated by this use of his images, we'd be rather quick to comply. It's in the absence of an interested party who cares that we ourselves don't care. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 14:06
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quote:So you're suggesting that we effectively give BoA a vasectomy for laws that nobody cares over, at the expense of your respect in this community? Good job, son. (Honestly, you ARE a troll, right?) EDIT: Cradial- sorry for ignoring you! Yes, please do email me the graphics you have. Thanks. I think I'm going to start a new topic in the meantime if this one gets cluttered up anymore. [ Wednesday, February 23, 2005 14:08: Message edited by: Solomon Strokes ] -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5512
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 17:06
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okay, fair use law. Fair use dictates you can make use of other peoples work as long as you dont claim it as your own. You should give credit as well, but as im not a lawyer i couldnt tell you if thats required as well. TM, have you made any profit off anothers work and not sent them a cut, or have you claimed anyones work as soley your own? No? Then who cares?... I havent seen anyone saying 'hey, thats my work, and i dont want you using it.' im certain if that came up tm would go 'allright, no problem!' -------------------- Gir! What did you do with the Guidance chip? I took it out to make room for the CUPCAKE!!!!! Posts: 30 | Registered: Thursday, February 17 2005 08:00 |
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