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Originally written by Maxmillion:

So you are saying that a comepletely evil person who believes that by killing and destroying people that he is doing Jesus's and God's will will go to heaven? What a place to be if that guy is in their. Pope Urban II started the first and second crusades, the first one being where huge amounts and knights and muslims died, and in the second one they send children anywhere from 10-15 to die because the knights didn't want to do it. Does this man deserve to go to heaven?

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Also, if all Christians feel the holy spirit and follow god, then why are their so many dissagreements? Why are their so many different churches? You say you only have to believe in god and Jesus to go to heaven. Accoording to some christians, gays go to hell. This is said in the bible. Explain how these two doctrines survive contact.

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Originally written by Dolphin:
1. A truly evil being can truly love Jesus. This is due too the concept that the being doesn't believe what it is doing is wrong. That is to say the believe Jesus to be their lord and savior. On their deathbed they ask for forgiveness, and for the sake of argument lets say they mean it. This being has a place in heaven despite their life of cruel deeds?

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2. A being that lives their life by all the laws of the bible, and for the sake of argument sins very little in its lifetime. This being believes Jesus lived and did many great things. Perhaps they believe Jesus was an enlightened being, so he could heal through the core energy of God Essence. However they do not believe Jesus was the literal son of God, or shall I say is God's child as much as any of us are. Upon that beings death will they receive the punishment of being born into hell despite their life of incredible compassion?

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Originally written by Dolphin:

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Because God is a personal God who will deal with people on an individual basis. Perhaps realizing that God is willing to help you with such a trivial task as finding your keys leads you to be grateful, so grateful that you decide to devote your life to foreign missions. So you move to a third world country where thousands of children starve to death every day and minister to them as you are able and you change their lives in doing so. I do not mourn very much for the child who starves to death. Let me tell you why before you call me heartless. That child will never suffer again, will never hunger again, will never thirst again, will never be cold or sick or alone ever again because s/he has a place prepared for him/her in Heaven. The table is already set with the feast they will now enjoy that they did not get to enjoy in life.

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It would be nice if instead of helping me find my keys God would give that hungry child a steak. Also you don't feel bad for them because they will get to heaven? According to ben if they are not devoted to Jesus they have no place in heaven. I doubt these starving dying children would be comforted by the reassurance of paradise in the existence to come.

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You cannot be 'forced' to follow God, it is always your choice to do so. And if you choose to follow God 'only' because you want the rewards of Heaven (or to escape hell) it is at least a first step towards Christlikeness. If you 'really' follow God, you will discover on your journey that there are better reasons to follow him.

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Just to make the argument, many people fallow God because they were raised to do so, or out of fear of suffering. They may not know there are other ways to love God other than Christian beliefs. Forgive me, but I don't see why Christianity is the “correct” faith.

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Originally written by *i:

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Miracles are all according to God's will. However, he may leave the desicion on whether to perform a miracle in the hands of the people of the Earth. That's where prayer comes in. If people are honestly praying for a miracle and it's in God's will, it will happen. But people not praying may cause God to not perform the miracle because people didn't care and/or people didn't have enough faith to pray.

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I think it's rather arrogant to presume you could even comprehend the workings of the diety. If a diety was all powerful and all knowing, why did it not already set into place the miraculous workings from the beginning of time?

The truth is, you make an assertion based merely on what you've been told. In fact, the logic of a diety that interferes contradicts with the logic of an omniscient one. Of course, this is my own analysis of logic and in no way can I be certain of said actions of a diety.

So I ask you, what evidence/argument do you have for your assertion that prayer matters? Or does it stem from a dogmatic worldview?

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It wouldn't be plausible to assume that all "miracles" are due to the four fundamental forces. You can say that they can be traced back to some point earlier in time, but if you can't prove it, you're getting nowhere in disproving God.

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You have totally missed the point. Did you even read my post? If you did, read it again, and again. I'm NOT trying to disprove the existence of a diety.

My point was that miracles do NOT follow the four fundamental forces and we could detect the interference of a diety if we traced back to a "source term" or a place where there was some unexplainable creation/destruction of some force.

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Because God does exist, everything just falls into place; there's no need to frantically rumage around for some physical cause of a miracle.

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Well, I'm glad you don't feel the need to analyze your beliefs in any way...

Care to explain on the molecular level how "everything just falls into place"? From the first part of your post, you appear to have some inside insight into the working of a diety. Please, I want to know.

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Originally written by Bad-Ass Mother Custer:

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Originally written by 1001011001000:

Miracles are all according to God's will. However, he may leave the desicion on whether to perform a miracle in the hands of the people of the Earth. That's where prayer comes in. If people are honestly praying for a miracle and it's in God's will, it will happen. But people not praying may cause God to not perform the miracle because people didn't care and/or people didn't have enough faith to pray.

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Hello, welcome to my entire argument for the last five pages! It's no stultifying physical-science quibblery or fun, meaningless shoutfest with earnest agnostics or pagans, but I'm sure you will have fun with it anyway!

Here is my question for you, and if you would not mind I would like for the remainder of the audience to hold off on the ontology for a bit while we clear this up: if God isn't going to save a Nigerian boy who believes in God as fervently as you from dysentery, why is he going to help you with anything? How is there justice in that?

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Originally written by Bad-Ass Mother Custer:

even against a giant meteor impact we'll have a few years' warning

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Originally written by imho:

and what would Men do in the face of this?
probably fight for the remaining resources
or hopefully not

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Originally written by Ash Lael:
Someone says God cured him from drugs - took away the cravings, he didn't suffer any withdrawl, any of that stuff. Well, he's deluded. The body is complicated, there must be another explanation. Or maybe his memory is messed up - hey, he did drugs, right? Either that or he's lying. People lie all the time, and miracles just don't happen, so it's more likely that he's lying. Can't think of a reason for him to lie, but then, he'd want to keep that quiet. Or maybe by telling himself this miracle story, it's easier for him to keep himself off drugs.

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