Profile for Slarty
| Field | Value |
|---|---|
| Displayed name | Slarty |
| Member number | 261 |
| Title | Raven v. Writing Desk |
| Postcount | 3560 |
| Homepage | http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/slartyvsdesk/ |
| Registered | Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
Recent posts
Pages
| Author | Recent posts |
|---|---|
| Ghosts of Stalin in General | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 14:48
Profile
Homepage
Dikiyoba is still wise. My post was an esoteric reference to the TM-Kel conflict encapsulated in my ChronoCross character pairings for the two of them. ...So, SoT is a professor! Makes sense. [ Monday, May 29, 2006 14:49: Message edited by: Anti-Fairy ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Broken Vlish: a too long analysis in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 13:30
Profile
Homepage
The Vlish's missile attack does count as magic (= energy). I was only listing special effects in that chart -- you'll notice I didn't list fire or ice flavored damage either. The Terror Vlish's poison attack does poison the victim (both melee like the regular Vlish, and missile). The amount of poison (and hence amount of damage) depends on attack strength. In general it's less immediately damaging than acid is. I wouldn't rely on it, and I'd certainly say it's much less useful than slowing is. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Easy/Med/Hard in Avernum 4 | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 13:25
Profile
Homepage
Difficulty setting affects monster level. When their level is higher, they have more HP, better to-hit and to-dodge rates, and do more damage. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Ghosts of Stalin in General | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 13:23
Profile
Homepage
LUKE... I AM YOUR FATHER -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Suggestion for increased replay value: Add the three remaining classes in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 11:21
Profile
Homepage
Did anyone here ever play Realmz? Does anyone else remember the giant pile of poop that resulted when Realmz doubled the number of races and classes available? That's an extreme case, but less is more. Jeff understands that. It's one of his best qualities as a designer, I think. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Broken Vlish: a too long analysis in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 11:19
Profile
Homepage
Clarifications: creatures that the game engine spawns from spawners don't give any XP. Most spawners seem to have creations around them already when you get there, often a different flavor than what they spawn. Those creatures are not technically "spawned" so they give usual XP. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| In GF3, is there any reason to sink points into Fire or Battle Shaping? in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 11:11
Profile
Homepage
First, as the other thread demonstrates, Roamers are almost exactly the same as Artila. Less so at lower levels, but the difference is still pretty small. In G1, Artila had a sub-par melee attack... that is no longer the case. Based on my math, rotghroths will do more damage than a gazer if their Quick Action kicks in, and less if it doesn't. They only have 6 QA. They drip acid, but not really any more than an Artila or Roamer ships out. Here's the thing -- gazers actually have a great melee attack. It stuns, and it does damage with 1-6, rather than 1-4 as Rotghroths and everything else do. So running out of energy isn't a huge problem, especially if you use a melee attack where it's sufficient. The advantage to rots, of course, is that you can shape them a whole island earlier. The place of gazers and eyebeasts is really alongside vlish, both so you can afford the essence cost, and you don't have to fire the kill ray constantly. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Broken Vlish: a too long analysis in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 10:53
Profile
Homepage
If you observed this in G2, it's also possible things have changed. For one thing, spawned creations never give any XP in G3. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Broken Vlish: a too long analysis in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 09:33
Profile
Homepage
Are you sure this just happens with Vlish? Weird. If this really happens, it must be hardcoded. Here's the Vlish script: All creations import creature 9 as a base, have creature type 1, and none of the resistances (phys, magic, fire, poison) are unique to Vlish. Are you sure it's not just that your Vlish were higher level than other creations you've had? [ Monday, May 29, 2006 09:34: Message edited by: Vlishnu ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Broken Vlish: a too long analysis in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 08:58
Profile
Homepage
Ancillary effects increase in strength the same way damage does. For creation attacks you get a level or two of slow/acid/poison/whatever for each point of Strength or skill. Dodge rate for creations is, I think, based entirely on Dex (and the Nimbleness bonus that Thahd Shades and Searing Artila get). So Vlish shouldn't be better at dodging than any other high level creation. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Mechanics of 'Dominate' in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 08:17
Profile
Homepage
Dominate has a base effect of 1-3 and an effect per level of 1-3 (from the scripts). How that translates to chance to hit and duration, I couldn't tell you. You might be able to figure it out by making lots of comparisons with other spells, such as Daze (1-2 and 1-2, a good measuring rod for spell success as it's pretty consistent and we know it is based directly on enemy level) or War Blessing (1-2 and 1-1, so a good measuring rod for duration). Good luck, though. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Broken Vlish: a too long analysis in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 08:05
Profile
Homepage
(Cautionary note: the title is a bit of an exaggeration. Vlish are severely overpowered and certain small but influential aspects of shaping are absurdly unbalanced.) I don't think I've played a Shaper on Torment before, not since G1, anyway. I rarely play Shapers. Well, this game, I have periodically been checking the preferences to make sure the difficulty is actually set to Torment. It hasn't seemed like it. Nothing can touch me. It's ridiculous. 1. Some background: I was trying to figure out which creations were really the most valuable, so I did a little testing, and looked through the creature definitions file. With the exception of the fourth-tier creations, who have a plethora of unique skills but aren't available until very late in the game anyway, there are very few things differentiating any of the creations. The most important ones are: - Essence cost (which also affects cost to pump stats) - Base level - Type of attack - Attack skill There are a few others: - Base HP and Energy - Small bonuses to stats - Resistances But differences among them are mostly insignificant, so I'll mostly ignore them. Type of attack is obviously important, as creations that don't have ranged attacks can't be employed the same way as ones that do, and some of the ancillary effects (slowing and stunning) are quite useful. Level is by far the most important characteristic, however. A creation's four primary stats are equal to half its level (rounded down). Level and Endurance are responsible for the bulk of HP, and Strength + Attack Bonus is responsible for how strong ALL creation attacks are (yes, including missile attacks). Attack bonuses are generally smaller than base levels, and HP bonuses are almost all puny in comparison to even mid-level creation HP, so level is really what makes or breaks a creation. If you look at the creation stats with this in mind, they actually seem fairly balanced. The more expensive, higher tier creations have higher base levels. There are two problems with this, though. 1) Bonus to base levels. When you shape a creation, it gets a bonus of +1 for each point in Create X you have, and +1 for each point in the appropriate Shaping skill (+1 per 2 points above 10 and +1 per 3 points above 20). It's trivial for a Shaper to reach 10 in any Shaping skill, so you can basically add a flat +11 or +12 to each base level right away. 2) Levelling up. As frequently discussed on this board, having 7 creations follow you reduces your own XP by nearly 50%, but by the end of the game you will only be down a handful of levels over this, perhaps 4-6. Creations get almost exactly 75% the experience that you do, regardless of the creation's own level, and the level of your creations doesn't affect how much XP you get. So if a creation follows you around for 20 level ups, you can expect it to gain 15 levels. Not insignificant! Point #2 becomes horrifically relevant when you realize that some creations (generally, the weaker ones) are available before others are. Yes, you could theoretically find a way to run to Dhonal's Keep at level 1 and get Drayks right away, but aside from the fact that you wouldn't have enough essence to make one, that takes the fun out of the game, for me anyway. Here's a table of this basic information about the first three tiers of creations. I've left off the fourth tier since they would be poorly represented on this chart, and I've left off Cryodrayks since they don't become available until fourth tier creations do. I separated them out based on when they become available to you -- almost immediately, soon after reaching Harmony Isle, and soon after reaching Dhonal's Isle. I also clumped the creatures with no missile attack together. (Note that this table uses actual base levels, which are 75% rounded down of the base levels listed in the definitions file. Also, for the creations like Battle Alphas that get tiny Strength bonuses, I just lumped those in with melee and missile skill.) The following table presents the creations as they would be if you put 10 points in the appropriate shaping skill, buy 2 levels of Create X, create them as soon as you have the ability, and keep them with you. I adjusted these where necessary -- you can only get 1 point in Drayk right away, from a canister, whereas Terror Vlishes require using at least 1 canister to get to 3, the value I used for them, and so on. This means that several of the creations, such as Vlish, could actually be created a level higher with canister use. For a point of comparison I've chosen level 25, which when gaining levels slowly allows time to potentially get even the Beta and Ur-Glaahk. There are a variety of creation strength-boosting effects available: +2 Transference Robe +2 Sharing Belt +2 Guardian Claymore +3 Crystalline Shroud +4 War Blessing Since any player will have at least some of these, I'll be conservative and pick the two biggest no-brainers (Claymore + Shroud) to give each creation a bonus of 5 to Strength, and no Endurance bonus. Basically, the effect of wearing more is just to make the creations with better damage multipliers (like Drayks) better, and to make to-hit rates even less relevant. I averaged out the typical damage assuming no resistance. I didn't include base damage because it's small and I'm not sure if it applies to creation attacks. (i.e. the Fyora's attack, Firebolt, has a multiplier of 1-3 per level but may have base damage of 1-4 as well.) HP calculations do include bonus HP. I still haven't included the cost of 2 points of Int in the base cost, since it may be useful to skip those at first in order to create more creatures when you are at a lower level despite having lower essence. Several things should be apparent from this chart. The first is that levelling up creations is really powerful. The second is that Battle Shaping sucks, a lot. In exchange for a not very useful advantage in HP, battle creations have weaker attacks than magic creations, especially when you consider how common physical resistance is. The third is that Vlish are really overpowered. Their slowing effect would already make up for the few points of additional damage a Drayk gets, if it weren't for the fact that Vlish cost 15 and Drayks cost 50! There are a handful of enemies with high resistance to energy attacks -- good thing the Vlish has a physical attack that's as strong as any other creation's, considering it also causes poison damage. Oh, and speaking of resistance, the Vlish gets built in resistance to several types of attacks, more than any other creation in the first three tiers. The cheap cost of Vlish means, furthermore, that you can more easily afford to pump their stats or support them with spells. And if you pump stats, wear more boosting equipment, or gain more levels, the advantage their 1-5 missile attack has over the majority of creations that are stuck with 1-4 attacks just increases. And let me reiterate that the slowing effect is really powerful. 2. Torment, really? The other thing that should be apparent is that by levelling up creations, you can make powerhouses without using up too much essence. One level 32 Vlish might be weaker than a level 30 solo Agent or Guardian, but seven of them? Supported by Mass Energize? That's about where I am now, and even on Torment, the game has become a joke. I almost never buff, because even without it, I can take out several enemies per round. Buffing meant, for example, that Spharon's HP got reduced to nothing in two rounds, despite his having high resistance to energy attacks. The shard kept him alive longer, but being hit with slow fourteen times per round meant that he never got to attack at all. I don't think I can say anymore that G3 is the Agent's game. I haven't spent any skill points the past couple of levels because there's nowhere to put them that will actually make a difference. I suppose I can put a bunch in Intelligence later if I want to shape some Gazers. I know, I know. Geneforge is all about Shapers. They are supposed to be powerful. But this much power is ridiculous, particularly from a 15 cost creation. Levelling up is only part of that, though. Going around Greenwood with level 14 Artilas was pretty easy, too. My balancing suggestions would be: - Reduce the base level bonus from shaping skills slightly, or just make the skills more expensive - Make the XP your creations gain depend on the number of creations you have. Levelling one creation up this much is a nice option, I think, but levelling seven up is too powerful. - Fix the Vlish's attacks so that they are weaker than average as in G1. - Do something to make battle creations worthwhile. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| In GF3, is there any reason to sink points into Fire or Battle Shaping? in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 05:40
Profile
Homepage
You hit the nail on the head. Bonuses start to plateau at 10. Up to 10, your creations get 1 bonus level per point. Between 10 and 20, they get 1 level per 2 points. After 20, they get 1 level per 3 points. 6 skill points for a level is still quite reasonable if you're a shaper. 12 is much less reasonable; at that point you'll probably get more in both the short and the long run out of some Intelligence. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| My God can beat up your God! in General | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Monday, May 29 2006 04:16
Profile
Homepage
quote:Are you sure about that? Enlil was worshipped by various people for thousands of years, and while some of them would differentiate him from the Jewish God, I'm not so sure that most of them would. Mesopotamia was a place of numerous overlapping cultures and constant instability, and religion was often syncretist. Given some of the overlap -- their general attitudes and conceptions and, perhaps most blatantly, their duplicate roles in the Flood -- I think many would call them the same. quote:They may be the same by descent, but they're not the same linguistically. This is practically an exact parallel. Seriously, saying they are the same is linguistically absurd. quote:No, they really are different words from the same root. The fact that they have similar (or arguably identical) meanings is exactly my point. In terms of what the words mean, "dios" and "deus" don't have anything more in common than "dios" and "god" do. There are other religions besides J C and I that are monotheistic and feature a God that has just as much in common with the Jewish conception of God as the Christian conception of God does. I don't see how being historically related gives the Jewish and Christian Gods a monopoly on being "identical" according to your definition. quote:Sure. So what about the ones who don't agree? Is the opinion of the majority the only thing that matters? Or would you say instead "The God of most Christians and most Muslims is the same"? In sum: 1) If they're the same because they're historically related, there's no reason not to include other historical relations. 2) If they're the same because they're theologically similar, there's no reason not to include other similar theologues. 3) If they're the same because people say they are, then aren't they also not the same because people say they're not? quote:I'm sorry, did I say something to make you think I was an atheist? :eek: -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| My God can beat up your God! in General | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Sunday, May 28 2006 22:10
Profile
Homepage
...headache -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| My God can beat up your God! in General | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Sunday, May 28 2006 18:00
Profile
Homepage
So your argument is basically "No, they are the same God, because they are identical." Suppose I argue that the Jewish God is actually the same entity as Enlil (or some other Mesopotamian chief god). Historians have advanced such unusual views in the past. I can point out how the ancient Israelis derived parts of their religion from Mesopotamian traditions, and I can point out similarities between the two gods, and I can use your argument and say they are the same god because they are the same god. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Missile Conclusions. in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Sunday, May 28 2006 16:42
Profile
Homepage
Because clearly, investing in Strength makes you better able to take hits. :rolleyes: I liked you better when you just ranted about minotaurs. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| My God can beat up your God! in General | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Sunday, May 28 2006 16:40
Profile
Homepage
quote:You know, I'm really sick of hearing this. The Jewish God and the Christian God, for example, are certainly related, and certainly have a lot of things in common, but they simply aren't identical. Christians may assert that they are, but Christians and Jews believe a very different set of things about the figure. Saturn is not the same god as Kronos even if they are historically related and have a lot in common. "God" is not the same word as "Dieu" or "Dios" or "Deus" or "Theos" even if they signify similar things. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Xylgham udwlnit skretcko!1!! in General | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Sunday, May 28 2006 16:25
Profile
Homepage
Wait, wait, wait. There is a teenage turtle, with a name, and it's not named after some dead Italian! That's no good at all. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Guardians need help in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Sunday, May 28 2006 16:17
Profile
Homepage
quote: -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| U CAN Touch This in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Sunday, May 28 2006 16:10
Profile
Homepage
Unfortunately, no. In Torment, enemies hit for a lot of damage. Until you have heavy armor, good Parry skill, and spell buffs like Augmentation and Essence Armor, it's pretty hard to survive more than one hit. So any time there are multiple enemies attacking me -- which, for an Agent with no creations who can't pump Mental Magic enough to use Daze effectively, is going to be all the time -- there is a decent chance that I will randomly get hit twice in a row and die without being able to do anything about it. That's way too much save-and-reload for my taste. This is compounded by the fact that the limited supply of good missile ammo means that most things will survive (and attack me) for multiple turns. The other thing is that I'm not even at visible 1% against all the enemies I meet. This may get better over time, like when I find the +3 luck boots... but it already costs a boatload to increase the relevant skills. I get about 3 or 4% increase in dodge capability per level up, and it's dropping. I'm at visible 40% against Brutal Thahds, for example, and they kill me in one hit. That's just not good enough. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| Guardians need help in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Sunday, May 28 2006 15:56
Profile
Homepage
Chibi, I'm sure your contributions would be welcome. You aren't presumptuous about your conclusions and you don't start fights. A lot of people do :/ Perhaps a better phrase than "any strategy will work in Normal" is "any strategy CAN work in Normal." A useful distinction can be made between strategy, and tactics. Tactics cover some details of gameplay that apply regardless of strategy, like positioning your characters well in battle, deciding what enemies to attack with which characters, what wepaon to use, what spell to cast, and so on. There is a lot of room for play style differences even within a given strategy, or a given build. About dying on Normal: well, what kind of situations are you in that cause you to die? What do you do differently that causes you to not die? Asking yourself questions like that is the best way to learn. The game is frequently harder at the beginning. (This is characteristic of Jeff's games, because he packs them full of optional quests and goodies, but wants players who ignore most of them to be able to finish the game.) -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| U CAN Touch This in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Sunday, May 28 2006 15:34
Profile
Homepage
Yeah, I've noticed that too. The thing that threw me is that the numbers seem to be accurate in A4. I guess the engines aren't quite as similar as they seem, after all. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| U CAN Touch This in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Sunday, May 28 2006 12:54
Profile
Homepage
Well, I used cheat codes to run the same test with an extra 4 points of Dexterity, and I got hit 5 times out of 100, which doesn't make any sense. I used cheat codes to add another 2 points of Dex and I again got hit 5 times out of 100. I don't know what exactly is going on, but I have to conclude that dodging is too unreliable to be a worthwhile defense. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
| U CAN Touch This in Geneforge Series | |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Sunday, May 28 2006 12:40
Profile
Homepage
I tested physical attacks only. Missiles can actually reach 0% hit rate onscreen, and the few times I've seen that happen this game (against weak Artilla) I never once saw a hit. Ice Bolt doesn't get any kind of special bonus to hit. It has a base hit chance of 80%, compared to 70% for Searer, 60% for Firebolt and for melee attacks. However, those numbers are all taken into account when the game displays hit rates -- I'm sure of that. Edit for clarity: the point is, the number displayed onscreen takes into account both attack bonus and dodge bonus. It goes down if you increase Dexterity, and it goes up if you face an enemy with a better attack. [ Sunday, May 28, 2006 12:41: Message edited by: Vlishnu ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |