If canisters were real...
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Infiltrator
Member # 7298
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written Monday, January 1 2007 13:56
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of course if you can provide an a healthy outlite for your war hungry armies. Prehaps divide it between some generals and have the have skirmish against each other but break up the fighting when it starts to get out of hand. -------------------- A rock has weight whether you admit it or not Posts: 479 | Registered: Wednesday, July 12 2006 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2245
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written Monday, January 1 2007 14:52
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Emperor Tug: quote:Suggestion: Read '1984' by George Orwell (if you haven't done so already, that is). Orwell elaborates on how perpetual war can be used to maintain order, and the current social hierarchy. Hence the slogan: "War is peace." -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Monday, January 1 2007 15:51
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Well, the assertion that war promotes jingoistic nationalism has been proven time and time again by history, so it is plausible. But then again history so far supports that big empires always fall eventually. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Monday, January 1 2007 20:20
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Thuryl: You might be right about the puresteel. I see this as an advantage. Only someone with mighty resources, such as, say, an empire, would be able to obtain and refine the puresteel. This makes the chances of rogue canister makers far less likely. Garrison: I do not like the puppet general idea. Barzahl and Ghaldring have shown that the best way to keep a large force of canister users in check is with a very powerful and authoritative figure on the top. Constantly shifting leaders would make us look weak. I would have to be on top, and I would have to seem invincible. Of course, no one is invincible, so this would involve a lot of hiding in my fortress and being very careful of who I deal with on a day to day basis. If I die, so be it, succession will be clear. The one who kills me is the new emperor. But Tullegolar, what if that new emperor is not a Tullegolite, and he tries to dismantle the empire as would be his right to do? Well, then he won’t be emperor very long, will he? There will always be someone out there to take up the mantle of emperor, the empire will live on. Doomed to Failure: I don't think the empire would ever fall. It may go through many emperor in short amounts of time, but it is designed to do so. It is designed to keep operating in a world that is constantly changing. It might fall if the war ever ended, but let me ask you this: do you see the war in Geneforge ending any time soon? -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Canned
Member # 7704
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written Monday, January 1 2007 23:01
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But do you think that rebels and shapers will kill themselves eternally? Some shapers want to deal with the rebel orders, so we would agree that shapers on the long term would accept rebels and eventually creations rights...but in the short term a lot of protests would happen and pepole would fight each other. But ET the shapers and rebels once you are trying so desperately to put a non ending war will deal with all means so watch out ! And mind probe as often as you can: (that is what i do to humans i mind probe them from the lower part of the body you known and then to it's brain starts crunching !!!!!) And i have a question what would you be in geneforge? If you are a leader what type of government would you make, and what would you do?once a character in geneforge and no not a real character. (Join me or die!!!) [ Monday, January 01, 2007 23:39: Message edited by: opon mars ] -------------------- You can jump off a bridge, fire a gun in your mouth, drink poison,or going in to the tiger's pit but you will still end up dead it's a mater of time and how . Posts: 312 | Registered: Sunday, November 26 2006 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 5360
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 07:36
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Nalyd has a question for Tullegolar. Would non-canister users still be accepted into the armies and cities? Or would you exterminate all that you didn't think were worthy of canisters, making serviles and creations to fill their palce? [ Tuesday, January 02, 2007 07:36: Message edited by: Nalyd ] -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 08:02
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Canisters are to be coveted, never given freely. Ideally, there would be as few people with access to canisters as possible. Peasants and such, (assuming the Geneforge world is like earth, this is the vast majority of the population) would never get to enjoy the pleasures of canisters. Most common soldiers would not either, though they would be under the impression that, should they be at all successful, they will be rewarded greatly. I would probably only give out just enough canisters to keep the peasants in check, and, of course, to fight the war. I envision each small town lorded over by a single Tullegolite viceroy who keeps order in the town and pays tribute to the empire in exchange for small but constant supply of canisters. The justice these viceroys would deal will be harsh, but I'm not worried about them wiping out their own towns, as that would not only lead to them not having a town to rule, but also merit them an imperial price on their heads. So the answer is yes. The unblessed would be allowed to live in peace under the Tullegolite empire in exchange for their loyalty and some rather high wartime taxes (but everyone no doubt has those). Unlike the Shapers, we will allow magic and shaping to be public knowledge, so our peasants would have far greater opportunities available to them. They need only the ambition to take them. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 7298
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 09:08
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If your empire was effetive as you say it was then you could beat the shapers and rebels with in a a couple decades. With out war you have no reason to award people for canisters. You simply would not want to make your empire to effetive. Another major problem I see you haveing is a canister lab/factory. Pure steel seems really hard to to make and would require much protection against theives and Imagine the canisters them selfs are hard to make. The smiths require to make pure steel as well as the canister crafters are very skill and rare. You have to treat them very well (high pay in gold and possibly the occosinal canister)for them to stay espically if they don't agree with your idea. If you keep them in your service by force you find that your puresteel is produce more slowly and isn't as pure. Your canisters would have subtle flaws in them in wouldn't be made as fast. My question is how would get the skilled craftsmen need to make canisters into your service and how would keep them in your service and keep them happy? -------------------- A rock has weight whether you admit it or not Posts: 479 | Registered: Wednesday, July 12 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 10:45
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Simple really. Canister makes (using Jared as my example) tend to love their work, and have a passion for canisters themselves. However, a canister maker would never survive on their own. They would not be able to find the puresteel they need in large quantities, only something as powerful as a faction could provide this. Canister makers would come to me for these resources. Those that support rebel ideals will go to the rebels, but I am sure there is no shortage of individuals that both crave the power of canisters and hate creations at the same time; they will be the ones that come to me. They will stay loyal to me because without my empire employing them, they will not have the resources (workshop, puresteel) to continue their craft. Jared showed an unmatched love of his job, and almost no ambition to gain political power. With a dozen or so of his type in my employ, my canister needs would be solved. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 14:48
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But how do you get those who make puresteel on your side? Most of them are loyal Shapers and don't have much of an insentive to switch to your side and even if they did, they can't just walk off with a whole factory to help you. I think the problem with your ambitions is that you assume you are already in a position of power with followers and resources when you start. You'd be squished even before you started. -------------------- "After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one." - Cato the Elder (234-149 BC) "The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process." -Kripke "One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly." -Friedich Nietzche Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 15:46
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quote:You're right, I do this. This is a political philosophy discussion, not an RP. I'm discussing the ideal government, and as I said, any description of how I would take power would just be pointless storytelling. But if I must... here is how I would start the empire. Step one, gather a bunch of people who have been ravaged by the rebels and thus have great hatred for them. Then convince them that the Shapers are losing because they do not allow self-shaping. Attack both sides, who will be too busy concentrating on each other to notice us (each side would probably just think we were members of the opposite side). With the resources gained after a few years of banditry, we will hopefully gain access to things like puresteel and canister makers. Then, our power will increase exponentially as time goes on, until eventually we are on the level with the other factions. Far fetched? Maybe. But I like to think that anything is possible in such a world where excessive death and destruction is matched only by excessive life and creation. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 15:52
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Originally by Emperor Tullegolar: quote:You could always get your first canisters by raiding them from the rebel forces. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 17:57
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Sorta sounds like what Monarch did, if you do gain enough power they will truce in the area until you are dead. -------------------- "After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one." - Cato the Elder (234-149 BC) "The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process." -Kripke "One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly." -Friedich Nietzche Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00 |
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Canned
Member # 7704
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written Tuesday, January 2 2007 23:05
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Yes so peasants and soldiers would run to me for help and would run to other enemies of yours so you are only augmenting my ranks and others. Muhhaaaa you lose. [ Wednesday, January 03, 2007 01:07: Message edited by: upon mars ] -------------------- You can jump off a bridge, fire a gun in your mouth, drink poison,or going in to the tiger's pit but you will still end up dead it's a mater of time and how . Posts: 312 | Registered: Sunday, November 26 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Wednesday, January 3 2007 06:37
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Dikiyoba: Exactly, I would raid the rebels for canisters, and I would also raid the Shapers for puresteel. Canister would be more short term, securing much puresteel and even puresteel production would be the primary objective. Retlaw: Monarch decided to begin his conquest with an entire city. I would be much more covert than that in the begining. The Shapers would probably assume we were just more rebels, the rebels would assume we were more Shapers. By the time they figured out there was a whole new faction, it would be too late. I can't imagine them allying to defeat us, since there is no reason for them to hate us more than each other. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, January 3 2007 16:09
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quote:They're both working pretty hard to wipe out the Trakovites, and the Trakovites don't even pose a real threat. The shapers and rebels may not stop killing each other to more efficiently kill you, but that doesn't mean they'll stop killing you to more efficiently kill each other either. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Canned
Member # 7704
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written Friday, January 5 2007 11:21
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If you join my ranks of spies and assassins you would like my way of using sleath is the first thing to do : You will not be troubled into raiding canisters since you would force rebels in touring the canisters to our cause as well forcing the shapers to give away pure steal by the most undesirable ways... a good brain washing or blackmail can be good. A man possessed by a shade can be a good ally too, now do you see how can you augment your ranks without loosing men. [ Friday, January 05, 2007 11:31: Message edited by: upon mars ] -------------------- You can jump off a bridge, fire a gun in your mouth, drink poison,or going in to the tiger's pit but you will still end up dead it's a mater of time and how . Posts: 312 | Registered: Sunday, November 26 2006 08:00 |