what do you think of summoning?

AuthorTopic: what do you think of summoning?
Infiltrator
Member # 6136
Profile #0
well, i recently read the faq of drake, and he says that summoning sucks, wll i like it and i want to know if im the only one in this forum that like it

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Posts: 446 | Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #1
The only reason to summon is if you're desperate for bodies in between you and them, but if you need a blockade that badly then you're doing something wrong. In addition to wasting your spell points, your little minions also get in the way of fireballs and the like and have an unfortunate tendency to turn entire towns hostile.

—Alorael, who went through all of Exile 3 with only a few summons, and those were all castings of Simulacrum. Most were for fun rather than for a reason.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #2
Er, Alo? This is the Avernum Trilogy forums. Inadvertently fireballing your summons isn't an issue. :P

Having said that, summoning still isn't enormously useful. It's somewhat more so in BoA, where you're occasionally likely to run into things you just don't want to face in melee.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #3
I like to use it. When I come across some thing that proves to be FAR stronger then I am, i just summon some creatures to help me attack. (off topic: does anybody know if you have apossibility of Simalucrum in BoA?).

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #4
There is a Simulacrum spell in BoA, but it doesn't work the same way as it did in the Exile series. There's no Capture Soul spell, and Simulacrum just summons a friendly copy of whatever monster you cast it on.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #5
That's good to, isn't it? Can creatures still resist it? (if so, it actually dosn't have really much use)

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #6
Simulacrum *can* fail, but if it's at a high enough level, it generally has an extremely high success rate even against very powerful monsters. A few creature types are immune, though.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3171
Profile Homepage #7
Summoned creatures are handy when facing someone with powerful attack magic. It's good to have someone else take the blows and your characters surviving for another round.
Posts: 776 | Registered: Friday, July 4 2003 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #8
Like I wrote, only Create Illusions is worthwhile as a summoning spell.

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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #9
I've used Summoning on occasion, but only when I was out of spell points to do anything else (and low-level attacks wouldn't have done it).

I've found it can give you a brief edge if the opponents are too tough or deal too much damage in a single round. In high level environments, that additional turn you have to chug an invulnerability potion or deal ~200 damage with another spell can matter a lot. Create Illusions yields the best cost efficiency, because the meatshield doesn't need an excessive amount of health (more than likely they're going to die in one hit anyway). But with a faster, less strong opponent (say, 3 smaller attacks instead of one big one), additional hit points can be useful as well. It depends on the situation.

Edit: In BoA, of course there is the added bonus of summoning some monster the designer forgot to disable from summoning. I remember having a lot of fun with Goblin chieftains in Canopy... :D

Edit2: Of course, my point can't be impartially tested by a BoE/BoA arena run. The usefulness of Summoning directly depends on how it is used - and the AI uses it in a very dumb way.

[ Tuesday, August 09, 2005 05:20: Message edited by: Aranfoolcaytar ]

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #10
I played an all-mage party, and I found summons ESSENTIAL. I must have summoned 50+ monsters, and they wiped out all the demons which were summoned when you destroyed the trogo altar. Fun!

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Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #11
Summoning was slightly more useful in the Exile series, in the Avernum series it means nothing...

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Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6068
Profile #12
I've used Arcane Summon a few times. I really don't mind using the spell points (I carry around a lot of Energy potions), and the monsters you get are better "meat shields" than "Create Illusions" monsters that die in one hit.

I generally don't like summoning, though, and it's annoying: a. when opponents won't fight you head-on by summoning endless monsters with endless SP, and b. so many spells were dedicated to summoning. There are a few more creative spells that could have been added in their place.

I'm supprised so many other people think the same way about it I do, though. Jeff doesn't seem to.

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Posts: 209 | Registered: Monday, July 4 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #13
Well, Arcane Summon was useful in A3 and semi-useful in A2. The only summoning in BoA I ever use is Simulacrum, which can be horribly broken if you use it in a boss battle.

EDIT: Divine Host was also awesome, particularly when you could still summon Vengeful Shades at level 3.

[ Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:50: Message edited by: Ephesos ]

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Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Agent
Member # 3349
Profile Homepage #14
I don't like summoning in the Avernum games. I like it much better in the Exile Trilogy. I miss the countless number of spells...

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Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #15
I may be referring to to the wrong games, but I stand by my opinion. Meat shields are even more worthless in Avernum and somehow seem to have an even higher chance of surviving and getting in your way. They don't even act as good decoys for enemy spellcasters, who seem to continue to target your characters no matter what's in the way.

—Alorael, who used Capture Soul and Simulacrum in Avernum exactly as he did in Exile. They're fun but entirely unnecessary.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 6136
Profile #16
well, i like it to DESTROY TOWNS, yeah, sometimes im bored, and i destroy towns like krizsan, shayder, and such. its quite challenging cause the guards are very tough and there is plenty of them, in exile i cast pestilence and rested, so all the townfolk die poisoned.
arcane summon is REALLY useful in boa, with it i summon naga, rakshasi, skeletal warriors, etc, summon aid is like the previous arcane summon. :P
Posts: 446 | Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3368
Profile #17
I only use it when I am playing a singleton. BTW I am replaying Avernum (as a singleton) and I can't get remember how to get past the final gauntlet. I've turned all the wheels I can find but can't get past those stalactites. Also I have searched extensively for a secret passage.

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Posts: 287 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 60
Profile #18
Simulacrum is the only spell I use... I had an Efreet in there, but my Naga took its place. I only use the Naga, though, when the enemy outnumbers me by some huge ratio (7:1 or higher, usually).

I never get anything good with arcane summon, though I must admit that Divine Host scrolls are incredibly useful against things like Fetid Zombies - they are my meat shield, I stay back with arrows, razordisks, and spells.

EDIT: As my Soul Crystal slots have changed, so has my mind. In A3, stick a Dark Wyrm in there - I use him for big, special fights (like the endgame against Rentar, who I would dearly love to be able to destroy, but that's off-topic...) and he can usually drop three or four guys - that's three or four guys that I don't have to worry about, and I accordingly retarget my spells.

[ Monday, August 15, 2005 07:23: Message edited by: PantherShadow ]

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Posts: 202 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #19
In Avernum 3 I had some fun with Simulacrum summons after I discovered I could successfully capture the Drake Lord in Karnold with Level 3 Capture Soul. After doing his quest, I came back and fought him, captured him, killed him, and then brought him to the party numerous times thereafter. There's something satisfying at times having a Drake Lord, a Haakai and a Dark Wyrm all fighting alongside you when you want to teach someone a lesson they won't have long to forget.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Agent
Member # 5814
Profile #20
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Posts: 1115 | Registered: Sunday, May 15 2005 07:00