I'm feeling sadistic
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| Author | Topic: I'm feeling sadistic |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 13:18
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The idea: allow the player to save only on save points (Think Final Fantasy). I originally was brainstorming a way to use save points with a branching plot in mind, basically to discourage the player from selecting every option to get the plot result he/she wants, but came up with nothing better than "Please only save on Save Points". Well I came up with a way to pull it off while in the middle of Frostbite, which certainly isn't a branching plot. I figured I'd include it anyhow, to work out any kinks for future uses. So, my fellow Blades enthusiasts, it is now time for my question: How much would this system annoy you? A simple yes/no answer is all I need, "Yes I'd like it or at least play it", "No, It'd annoy me enough to stop playing." I understand a lot depends on how it's executed in game; for this poll just try to think how much it'd please/bother you to not be able to save whenever you want. Poll Information This poll contains 1 question(s). 32 user(s) have voted. You may not view the results of this poll without voting. function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=ptDlryBysnCN"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=ptDlryBysnCN"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_window   -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 13:34
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I think it is horribly unnecessary and unworkable. Seriously, if saving and reloading improves a player's enjoyment, why not. It's their benefit/loss. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 27
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 14:31
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Go for it, just avoid the nearly impossible combat encounters (or offer a save point right before them.) Not being able to save every step offers a new element of challenge to games. Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 14:43
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It wouldn't be enough to make Dikiyoba stop playing, but Dikiyoba wouldn't really like it. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 14:45
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I personally don't mind being limited in when, where and how often I can save, but my main concern about limited saves is the effect they have on people with little free time. If somebody can only play in 30-minute bursts and has to stop in the middle of a dungeon, they've lost half an hour of effort. Therefore, as a bare minimum I'd recommend a "suspend" function which creates a temporary save that's deleted upon reloading, allowing players to avoid losing their progress even if they have to stop playing far from a savepoint. In the absence of a suspend function, I really wouldn't recommend implementing save points in BoA (presumably you're planning to do it by using the LOAD_SCEN_STATE?) It's likely to annoy a lot of players. [ Thursday, January 25, 2007 14:51: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 14:57
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OK, what if I included a function where you get 1 or 2 mobile save points? It's a short scenario, so two should be enough to get through the scenario, even if you get in a jam and need to leave the computer. Perhaps using a mobile save would cause a stat to drop, or lose a potion, or some other penalty? Any thoughts on whether this would make things better/worse would be appreciated. -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 15:15
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I'm interested in how you plan to deactivate the normal saving process. I really don't see how you could do it. I probably wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't stop me from playing either (with or without mobile saves). [ Thursday, January 25, 2007 15:37: Message edited by: Nioca ] -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 15:31
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By Nioca: quote:It's definitely possible to check that a saved game is valid. I'm guessing that LOAD_SCEN_STATE would check the location of the party. If Laz incorporates mobile save points, LOAD_SCEN_STATE would probably check a SDF for zero, and if positive, decrement it. However, I can't think of a way to enforce saving at the right place. There's nothing stopping a player from hitting CTRL-S at any point in the game (I, like many others, do this compulsively and without thinking). The minute they do so, however, they write over their old save with an invalid one. I'm very curious about how you've solved this, Laz. I wouldn't enjoy it, but the existence of save points wouldn't make or break a scenario for me. Stareye and Thuryl make good points. I also think that having save points would break the fourth wall more than the current system would. -------------------- Our one desire is that... the people of Southeast Asia be left in peace to work out their own destinies in their way. - Lyndon Johnson, 1964 Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 15:35
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quote:By about the third time you reload your saved game on a boss fight, the fourth wall is well and truly broken in any case. quote:Well, that's easy enough: punish the player for loading an invalid save! A level of Dread Curse for every invalid save loaded should be enough of a disincentive (and can be removed in the character editor if the player is really stuck and/or really determined to cheat.) [ Thursday, January 25, 2007 15:37: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 15:45
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If I wanted the fourth wall to be intact, why in the world would I choose to play Blades of Avernum? -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 15:49
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Well it's impossible to stop them from actually saving. So if they overwrite their save file accidentally, they'll have to make it to the next save point without dying to overwrite it with a legit file, or just suffer the stat penalty. Is it intrusive? I don't know, some people might say it is. That said, it's a new challenge, and at least with the new "mobile save" people who don't want said challenge can just ignore it with just a stat penalty. The penalty will only be an issue for people using the prefab, who are looking for a challenge to begin with and probably wouldn't be bothered by the save point issue. Thanks for the feedback thusfar, keep it coming. :P -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 19:38
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It would make the game more interesting since you would have to think more coming into a major encounter. No more let's see what happens and if I die well I'll just reload and use the information to do better. If you have to replay a significant portion of the game, then you will plan ahead. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 20:01
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Yeah, but it would be devastating if you had to trek back through several difficult battles you had only just beaten before, all because one enemy got the slip on you. -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
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written Thursday, January 25 2007 22:21
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I imagine it wouldn't cause me to not play the scenario, but I don't think I'd like it as much as regular saves. It works alright for Final Fantasy, but I think BoA works better the way it is. Besides… there's plenty of times when I can't find save points in time, so I lose a lot of progress that way. Rather infuriating. -------------------- Do not provoke the turtles. They do not like being provoked. -Lenar My website: Nemesis' Refuge Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Friday, January 26 2007 09:36
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I don't think it's a major thing... It wouldn't stop me from playing. I just can't see any real reason for implementing it... -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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Dollop of Whipped Cream
Member # 391
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written Friday, January 26 2007 10:53
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quote:Seconded -------------------- "Tyranicus is about the only one that still posts in the Nethergate Forum." —Randomizer Spiderweb Chat Room Shadow Vale - My site, home of the Spiderweb Chat Database, BoA Scenario Database, & the A1 Quest List, among other things. Posts: 562 | Registered: Friday, December 14 2001 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Friday, January 26 2007 11:55
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I thought you (Lazarus) deserved to be told that the previous posters in this topic have no opinions worth reading. In light of your previous off the wall scripting feats, I would whole-heartedly encourage you to do whatever you wish. And thank you for the poll. I like polls. -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Friday, January 26 2007 12:26
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Just like asking players to used a pre-made party, or asking them to use a singleton, asking players to save only in certain places is an arbitrary restriction intended to make the game more fun. The difference is that restricting saves forces a much bigger change in playing style than other similar restrictions. If you let the players decide for themselves, you can't lose because those who don't like the restriction will ignore it and those who like it will abide by it anyway. If you enforce the restriction programmatically, those who don't like it will either figure out a way around it, or quit, so you will not gain anything and will just annoy your players. PS As for me, if a scenario restricted saving I wouldn't even download it. If it asked the player to save only in specific points to avoid breaking the story, I'd most likely go along. (Unless my curiosity to see the other story lines overwhelmed my desire to stay in character.) However, I don't yet have BoA, so if you are counting votes of potential players of your scenario, my vote probably doesn't count. [ Friday, January 26, 2007 12:29: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Friday, January 26 2007 12:52
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I wouldn't want every Blades scenario to have save points, but I'd welcome it as something unique for one scenario. But of course you'd also want to make sure that the scenario itself is designed unlike other scenarios (less nasty suprises, easier combat, etc), with the saving system in mind. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 7488
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written Friday, January 26 2007 15:03
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You do realize, of course, that you can't create save points in BoA. Are you planning to rewrite the engine to do it? -------------------- Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so. If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you. Posts: 558 | Registered: Friday, September 15 2006 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5132
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written Friday, January 26 2007 15:12
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Personally, I don't like the idea of save points - that's probably because sometimes I have to get off the computer when playing BoX, and if I lose my progress.. ...yeah, you get the idea... (On an unrelated note, I have online access from four computers in my house, but yet all my SW games are on one. So yeah, that's how I'm able to stay active online. :P ) [ Friday, January 26, 2007 15:18: Message edited by: BainIhrno ] -------------------- "Let us see what the new day brings." - Temas, Areni. Visit my realm! Rate My Scenarios! Fort Emerald Robbery The Nephils' Defense The Final Spire The Fifth Tower of Magi The Portal Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, January 26 2007 16:03
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quote:The thing about BoA is that when you can't do something, there's usually a way to fake it. This is true in this case. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Friday, January 26 2007 16:59
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I'm good at faking it. :P -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Friday, January 26 2007 17:59
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I've considered the idea before and repeatedly decided that it'd be interesting to try if I had a really compelling reason to implement it, but the scenario should be designed in such a way that it works. Because otherwise it would be really, really annoying. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Canned
Member # 7704
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written Friday, January 26 2007 22:55
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I've lost the tread. Wait do you mean you want to save point in save point option ? Can't you just like in anvernum wait until your points are so high that you use them later? [ Friday, January 26, 2007 23:07: Message edited by: upon mars ] -------------------- You can jump off a bridge, fire a gun in your mouth, drink poison,or going in to the tiger's pit but you will still end up dead it's a mater of time and how . Posts: 312 | Registered: Sunday, November 26 2006 08:00 |
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