Illegal distribution on the BoAC

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Author	Topic: Illegal distribution on the BoAC
Ash Lael E Equals MC What!!!! Member # 5491	written Friday, February 18 2005 16:20 Profile Homepage #75 Overwhelming, in the event that your site gets back online, could you take my articles down too? They're the ones credited to "The Creator". -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 \| Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Custer Bob's Big Date Member # 3151	written Friday, February 18 2005 17:50 Profile Homepage #76 quote: Originally written by Overwhelming: For the little elite group who couldn't bear my site's existence, congratulations for your demonstration of power, overuling fairness, this board's CoC and acting agains't a site that just wants to promote Jeff's game, promote more fans to the game and scenario creators. Your personal ego is surely satisfied, it's a pity you didn't had in consideration Spidweb and your sipdweb community member who just wanted to contribute and had the endurance to make it happen and never attacked others. I like it when people blame a 'small group of elites' for their problems, especially when that group is the Jews. -------------------- The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest. Posts: 2367 \| Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Friday, February 18 2005 19:11 Profile Homepage #77 Well, Overwhelming and I just had an interesting exchange over PM. He suggested this course of action: "Since you decided to offend me and my reputation in public, make a new thread with your apologies, asking me to remove your works and all the reasons behind your decision. If you're sincere, I'll take offline your work." Well, Overwhelming, the only reason that I took this public was that you refused to deal with it in private. Nevertheless, I shall do as you ask, short of making a new thread. I apologize for the way that I stated my request. I was less than diplomatic, for which I am sorry. Please remove my work from your site, because of the following reasons (and I'm sure that I can come up with more upon request): 1. On any site that distributes my work, I would like direct access to my work so that I can revise and fix it personally, rather than waiting for someone else to do it. 2. I don't want to have to submit my work to an excessive number of sites. I put everything that I make on my own web site, and I usually submit it to Spiderweb. The BoAC is an extra submission, and anyone could come along and make another web site at any time that would have just as legitimate a claim to hosting anything else, and that would add yet another site to which I would have to submit. For a while, there were three competing script archives, which was far too many. In sum, I don't want to submit to more sites than I have to, so I will not submit to the BoAC, and I don't want my work to be incompletely represented, as it will be if Overwhelming hunts it down piece by piece without my submissions. 3. I don't trust the administration of the BoAC to competently handle the distribution of my work and the issues that may crop up accordingly. This is a judgement on methods, not on personality; Overwhelming has behaved in ways that seem to me less than adequate with regard to the BoAC before, and he has done it again during the course of this issue. This is not a personal attack; it is an assessment. It is essentially saying that whether or not I like Overwhelming as a person, I don't think he's fit for the job. 4. I don't support the aims and intentions of the BoAC, and I don't wish my work on his site to be interpretable as an endorsement. The BoAC represents a splitting of the community, a place that provides duplicate services, and such a thing cannot help but divide. The fact that it provides the same services as the Lyceum's Codex and therefore is a "competitor" is not worrisome to me because I worry that the Codex will seem less important; it's worrisome to me because I think that if the BoAC is successful, some scripts will end up on the Codex that are not on the BoAC and some will end up on the BoAC that are not on the Codex. I don't want to have to check both. Virtually every service that the BoAC provides is a duplicate, and therefore I find the majority of things on the BoAC to be objectionable. I do not support it, and while my opinions may be flawed — perhaps, as Overwhelming seems to think, it is good for the community — I have a right to my opinions, and I have a right not to support the BoAC if I choose. ------------------------- I could probably come up with more, but it hardly seems necessary. I have made the request, and as virtually everyone here agrees, you are both legally and morally obligated to comply. I do apologize for being less than friendly in my approach to this issue, and now I ask that you uphold your end of the bargain without more argument. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Overwhelming Infiltrator Member # 4637	written Saturday, February 19 2005 00:09 Profile Homepage #78 Thanks Dastal for taking your time explaining the laws (instead of just saying I'm wrong and that's it). And thanks for pointing out i's bad conduct in this case. Thanks Aluion, for pointing this out: quote: What it is talking about here is not the scenarios made by the Program, but the other programs that may derivate from the editation of or additions to the source code of said Program, as well as the Program itself. In other words, you have the right to distribute The Blades of Avernum Editor, and it is implied that you can distribute any derivations therefrom (Such as the 3D editor). Kelandon: You honored your part of the bargain, I'll honor my part. Having all this in consideration, I'll be coeherent to myself: 1. I was shown I really might be wrong about my License interpretation, so I must act accordingly. Mind you that I wasn't being stubborn, I was just defending what looked like the right thing to do. 2. Since Kelandon gave his apologies and reformulated his request and the reasons behind it; since we agreed to reach a conclusion to this matter after that. 3. Since my only interest here is to contribute and serve the community. I couldn't avoid defending myself agains't what was being an attack to my site, me and my reputation. I felt wronged and target of some malice by certain parties. I feel that there was already enough clarification about the subject, and I'll act in the best interest of the first line of point 3: contribute and serve the community. 4. I disagree about BoAC being a divisive factor for the community. It's quite the opposite. As a matter of fact, it generated even more BoA and specially BoA's Editor users and revealed itself a useful resource for all potential creators (its traffic leads me to that conclusion). Every work in there is given exposure that it wouldn't have otherwise, so I sincerely believe that BoAC pros clearly surpass the cons. Conclusion, I'll remove Kelandon's works as requested, as soon as I gain the site's control. PS: Ash Lael, I think it should be TheCreator to request that. I don't know if you're TheCreator or not, so I can't act. If you're TheCreator, please login with that account and request again, if you're still willing me to remove your work. Best regards, Overwhelming EDIT: Hum... It seems squarespace has given me reason, as I can see my site was restored. Anyway, I'll keep my word and I'm removing Kelandon's works. [ Saturday, February 19, 2005 00:13: Message edited by: Overwhelming ] -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center* and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 \| Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
drafter Warrior Member # 5322	written Saturday, February 19 2005 00:57 Profile #79 Stareye is not an ordinary moderator, as someone HAS pointed out before. He's an admin, and therefore, in my opinion, has the rights to do everything it takes to help and, in a way, protect the community. Basically, what I'm trying to say (and I'm only sharing my personal opinions, based on this thread alone), is that while both Overwhelming and Kelandon have both behaved not quite so well, Stareye has done nothing wrong. Overwhelming was causing a show, Stareye warned him in hopes of him calming down. It didn't work, and you blame him. But hey, had it work, you'd all be quite likely praising him. Posts: 73 \| Registered: Saturday, December 25 2004 08:00
drafter Warrior Member # 5322	written Saturday, February 19 2005 01:00 Profile #80 Also, Overwhelming, Ash Lael really is the other half of The Creators. http://p080.ezboard.com/fthelyceumfrm42.showMessage?topicID=12.topic Posts: 73 \| Registered: Saturday, December 25 2004 08:00
Drakefyre Triad Mage Member # 7	written Saturday, February 19 2005 04:57 Profile Homepage #81 It solves everyone's problem if you just link to the material instead of hosting it. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 \| Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Saturday, February 19 2005 08:01 Profile Homepage #82 My work has been removed, and the BoAC is back online. Two of Creator's articles are still there, but my issue with the site is done. Apologies to everyone for this mess. And I note that Overwhelming did not apologize to anyone for anything. Interesting. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Overwhelming Infiltrator Member # 4637	written Saturday, February 19 2005 12:05 Profile Homepage #83 Kendl: It was TheCreator who granted me the right, so it must be TheCreator to revoke it. I don't know if what you say is true or not, but it's simple to know: let TheCreator login and post. Kelandon: I was wrong but acted in good faith. However I still owe apologies. Because even if your behaviour was "less than diplomatic" (to say it nicely), I shouldn't had reacted the same way. Is this issue closed, i? -------------------- Visit the Blades of Avernum Center* and the Beta Testing Center -------------- "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9 Posts: 483 \| Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
drafter Warrior Member # 5322	written Saturday, February 19 2005 12:23 Profile #84 quote: Kendl: It was TheCreator who granted me the right, so it must be TheCreator to revoke it. And he has. quote: I don't know if what you say is true or not, but it's simple to know: let TheCreator login and post. To be perfectly honest with you, yes it is true. And come on, isn't it enough for you that one of the two Creators has asked for the material to be removed? :P [emoticon added, i pretty much enjoy my life at the moment] [ Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:24: Message edited by: kendl ] Posts: 73 \| Registered: Saturday, December 25 2004 08:00
The Immortal BANNED Member # 4	written Saturday, February 19 2005 13:24 Profile Homepage #85 Nathan Ashby, aka "Ash Lael," formerly known as "The Creator," has asked you to remove the articles. He does not have very good internet access in the Outback, and I am sure that he would enjoy avoiding another spectacularly fruitless waste of time as you recently enacted with Kelandon. For that matter, the rest of us would be appreciative as well. Thanks. EDIT: Wait a second, when the hell did you "ask permission" if you could host Canopy? Or Xerch'de? Or A Perfect Forest? Or Death at Chapman's? Or Emerald Mountain? Or Roses of Reckoning? Or my articles from Spiderweb's site? Or Drakey's? Or countless scripts (nine of which are mine)? I don't care about the articles, but seeing as how the versions of Canopy on your site are already out of date, do link to this download site instead: http://tm.desperance.net/CanopyMacintosh.sit http://tm.desperance.net/CanopyWindows.zip (It's currently not on-line, but on the other hand, I'm not really asking you to update your links; I'm demanding you to do it. Thanks.) I'll let the scripts go, simply because I don't really care. When I discover an error in any of them, however, I expect you to either link to the Lyceum or update the scripts accordingly. You'll lose my patience quickly by doing it any other way. [ Saturday, February 19, 2005 13:34: Message edited by: Solomon Strokes ] -------------------- * Posts: 6936 \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Archmage Alex Skip to My Lou Member # 40	written Saturday, February 19 2005 13:40 Profile Homepage #86 Just because I find irony so delicious, I must comment that I like how Overwhelming claims to do things for the good of the BoA community when such a significant portion of the BoA community is telling him exactly what they feel. The irony is overwhelming. -------------------- Take the Personality Test! Deep down, you wish you were a stick figure. Posts: 1629 \| Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Saturday, February 19 2005 14:24 Profile Homepage #87 As far as I can tell, he just sort of mentioned in release threads that he was hosting scenarios on his site, at least from a certain point on. He did this for APF, for example. He did ask permission for these sorts of things for a brief while in late July of '04. I think he pretty much stopped sometime in August. I remember this because I remember giving him permission to host something or other. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Commodore Redmark Warrior Member # 4599	written Saturday, February 19 2005 14:27 Profile #88 I find it amazing that Overwhelming would want to go through all of this. For someone who claimed he wished to serve the community, he has caused a great deal of disruption. Overwhelming, why were you willing to risk the life of your website to keep Kelandon's work? I just do not undestand why you would risk your site for something that could be obtained at a different location. If you wanted people to know about Kelandon's work, then the link would have been a simple solution to this dilemma. Ultimately, I hope this will set a precedent that will help to solve such problems in the future. -------------------- "Yeah-- you're right. You christians are far too persecuted nowadays. I mean it. We really should stop feeding you to the lions." --TM "Ancient Blessings" My unfinished (and likely to remain that way) BoA scenario. Posts: 135 \| Registered: Tuesday, June 22 2004 07:00
ef Guardian Member # 2476	written Saturday, February 19 2005 15:33 Profile #89 quote: Nathan Ashby, aka "Ash Lael," formerly known as "The Creator," has asked you to remove the articles. Overwhelming is asking for the legally correct procedure in this instance. The text kendl linked him to does not mention the name 'Ash Lael', so whatever he hears from you is only hearsay. Maybe one of the community is able to contact Ash Lael or his brother? [ Saturday, February 19, 2005 15:34: Message edited by: ef ] -------------------- Polaris Rache's A3 Site reformatted 2/3 done Rache's A3 Site, original version Posts: 1828 \| Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Saturday, February 19 2005 15:37 Profile Homepage #90 Oh, Creator will check these boards again eventually. It's just kind of silly to have to wait for that when Ash Lael is obviously him. Who else in the community lives in Canberra, except Flamefiend? EDIT: Ach, it's hard to get out of the habit of calling him "Creator." What was it we settled on? Ash? Yeah, Ash, who is one-half of the Creator, will check the boards again eventually. EDIT 2: And Thuryl is right, as always. [ Saturday, February 19, 2005 15:44: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Saturday, February 19 2005 15:42 Profile Homepage #91 Well, technically, anyone could register and claim to be named Nathan Ashby and from Canberra. There's plenty of corroborating evidence (the Lyceum post, the website, the email address, etc) which indicates Ash Lael is almost certainly who he claims to be, but still, Overwhelming may want to make absolutely sure before removing Creator's work, and I suppose that's fair enough. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
*i The Establishment Member # 6	written Saturday, February 19 2005 16:04 Profile #92 I am glad to see a fair resolution to the issue. Overwhelmings rights to post links and edit his profile are restored. Sorry I didn't get to it a little earlier, but my weekends are busy. A few points of clarification on my part: 1) There are many times being a Board Admin I am forced to make judgment calls. Since it is impossible to create an all inclusive governing set of rules for these boards, I am often forced to make decisions that go beyond the scope of the CoC. 2) The issue at heart here was posting links from the official forums to illegally posted material. It has been routine to not allow links to such material and I have removed or edited them in the past. Unfortunately, in this case, I had to edit a signature, which I do not like to do. 3) I determined that most likely the material in question was illegally posted and took the route I felt to be right in removing the link from Overwhelming's signature. This would also ensure that a compromise is reached in a timely manner. 4) As far as Jeff doing this sort of community message board stuff, it would be nice, but he hardly has the time for it. Regrettably, the responsibility of running the boards and ensuring the content is legitimate falls to the moderator and admin staff. Anyway, that is all I have to say. Let's put this all behind us. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Ash Lael E Equals MC What!!!! Member # 5491	written Saturday, February 19 2005 16:35 Profile Homepage #93 Hey TM, I'm hardly in the Outback now - Canberra is the capital city of Australia. For clarification, "The Creator" was an identity shared by myself and my brother. Now that I've left home, I created this new account so people could differentiate between him and myself. He'll continue to use the "Creator" moniker, as I never liked it much. That said, don't expect him to post too much - I tend to do that sort of thing a lot more. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 \| Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
The Creator BoE Posse Member # 112	written Saturday, February 19 2005 16:36 Profile #94 However, simply for the sake of proof, I'll borrow this SN one more time. -------------------- Rate my scenarios! Areni Revenge To Live in Fear Deadly Goblins Ugantan Nightmare Isle of Boredom Posts: 1423 \| Registered: Sunday, October 7 2001 07:00
The Immortal BANNED Member # 4	written Saturday, February 19 2005 18:17 Profile Homepage #95 (For reference, Overwhelming did not post any such "I'm hosting your work" message in Canopy's release thread. And even if he did state so elsewhere, I still never gave him permission of any sort.) -------------------- * Posts: 6936 \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Drakefyre Triad Mage Member # 7	written Sunday, February 20 2005 05:53 Profile Homepage #96 I gave Overwhelming permission to use my articles. I respect the requests of people to want control over editing of their material, but having a site like the BoAC can only help the community. What good can come of attacking the BoAC and losing a site that helps the community by centralizing things that scenario designers and players would like to see? -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 \| Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Dastal Warrior Member # 3610	written Sunday, February 20 2005 10:40 Profile #97 Yay! ::Downs beer:: (Anywhere outside the US, where it is legal for Dasty to do so, of course!) Oh, Aluion, since I am not a lawyer, only stufying to be one, I'll go with you on this one. I just know that my father, who was chief corporate council for Excelon Inc., made abundantly clear to me that if (when? I hope) I get my law license, I should properly disclaim anything I post online. Stareye, my aside dirrected at you was really a personal note from someone who has moderated similar boards in the past (those of the HomeLAN Federation). I was just trying to offer advice should a similar situation arise. Posts: 129 \| Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00
The Immortal BANNED Member # 4	written Sunday, February 20 2005 10:50 Profile Homepage #98 Drakey- so be it. I just want the scenarios to be downloaded off of my site, so that when I create a new version, it will be the most recent version available. Canopy is a scenario that lends itself to frequent updates. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
SNM Shock Trooper Member # 4239	written Tuesday, February 22 2005 12:50 Profile #99 quote: Originally written by Drakefyre: It solves everyone's problem if you just link to the material instead of hosting it. I just think I should point out that it creates a rather large number of problems if the site that's linked to goes down...it really nullifies the point of a filecenter to begin with. ;) -------------------- There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were. Posts: 322 \| Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00