Endeavor and Privacy
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 03:38
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With the first actual privacy complaint regarding the Endeavor, I'd like to ask you what you really think of having an external website regularly crawl this forum and store and publish your member information permanently. I feared that this would come up a lot sooner, but somehow it hasn't. I've quickly added in a blacklist and this member has been placed on it so they won't be crawled or stored any longer. However, in the future, this might not be enough - which I'd rather not find out after receiving the lawsuit. Poll Information This poll contains 1 question(s). 39 user(s) have voted. function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=JbHnEjCNtrCc"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=JbHnEjCNtrCc"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_window   -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5754
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 03:49
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I don't really see why somebody would care. Al that information is already displayed here, so it's already in the public. I think you should keep it the way it is, until asked by the person to not display information. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who likes to look at his post count, and it wouldn't be as fun if no-one was on the list. Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 04:12
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It is a good question though, as to what use there is for crawling and storing the free-response fields in the profile. If you want to avoid lawsuits, I'd stick to the information that *can't* be personally identifying even by accident. The rest is readily visible (and linkable to) on spidweb. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 04:12
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Well, it's a bit different - the site not only shows your current profile, but it also stores your past profiles even if you change it at some point. If you put your real name on there now and remove it next month, it'll still be there in the archives. So it's more like the Wayback Archive than the Google Cache. Edit: This refers to the post second to last (see posting time). [ Tuesday, January 23, 2007 04:36: Message edited by: Arancaytar ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 04:30
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Oh. GET RID OF THAT. I mean, that's lawsuit city. Seriously man. I don't see how a workable lawsuit involving money would be likely to arise from a spidweb profile, but it certainly could. Besides, it's generally poor netiquitte to preserve personal information that somebody didn't think would be preserved. (*coughs in the general direction of Shadow Vale*) -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 04:41
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Sure, the information you're collecting already exists here, but members can change the information in their forum profiles at any time, whereas they have to rely on you to change the copy of that information on your site. I think that as a bare minimum, an automated opt-out process is a good idea. If it relies on you to do it manually, people can't have confidence that you'll continue to maintain the site for as long as it's up. Also, if you haven't already done so, prevent robots from seeing the user pages. Wouldn't want member information ending up in Google's cache. [ Tuesday, January 23, 2007 04:45: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 05:17
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All-Caps have a way of accelerating reactions. Archives are now off-limits to non-authorized (non-me, for all practical purposes) users. This is merely a drastic first action - a few fields may later be re-opened, such as postcount. Automated opt-out is already done - I just have to test it to make sure it works. And there's not yet a way to automatically re-list members if they change their mind (that'll come later). Edit: I successfully delisted one of my multiple accounts. Works very smoothly. Edit2: I have de- and relisted the member several times. That also works beautifully, and within the space of a few seconds. [ Tuesday, January 23, 2007 05:53: Message edited by: Arancaytar ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 07:26
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What you have just done sounds like a good idea. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 08:06
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The only thing I use the Endeavour for is matching old PDNs with new PDNs. As for the privacy issue, rewriting the profile instead of having archived copies would be an improvement. But yeah, I second Kel. Better safe than sorry. Until the Endeavour is acknowledged in the registration process on SpidWeb, there's a very high chance that the new members have no idea about the project until too late. -------------------- Wow. That's a lot more planning than I thought this strip had... - Haley (OotS #60) Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 08:53
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Frankly, leave it the same (other than the archives, which even I didn't know existed). If someone doesn't want their personal information on the Endeavor, then they shouldn't put it in their profile here. After all, the Endeavor can't collect information that isn't there. Out of curiosity, who complained about it? -------------------- I tried to think of something witty to put here. Needless to say, I failed. Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 09:14
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Three things, Nioca: 1. You are expecting people to behave rationally. This is not a reasonable conclusion. 2. People sometimes change their mind. 3. They filed a privacy complaint. Do you really think it they want to be known? (Or that it's wise for Arancaytar to give out that information?) Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 09:25
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I think opt-in is always preferable to opt-out. (Unless the opt-out option is presented in big red letters on the registration screen, in which case it's equivalent of opt-in.) In this case, it would be best to crawl all the profiles, but not display anything beyond current member name and number, unless a person opts in. I like seeing things like old signatures, but some people might want all previous information gone. Something that bothers me more is the PPP archive itself. That archive is similar to chat logs in the sense that now anything I post on this board is forever associated with my name and googleable. This makes me think twice about posting on some subjects, and generally makes the tone more formal. While I am not sure what you could do about it, marking PPP archive off limits to robots would be a good start. EDIT: Nioca, many members don't even know about existence of Aran's site. These people, who go straight to game forums to ask their questions, are the ones most likely to include RL info in their profile, but change their mind later. There had actually been a case here of a person who originaly had RL name as part of e-mail address in profile, but quickly changed it and became very secretive about RL info. However, that info was cached by an external site, and his RL information could be found by anybody who knew where to look. [ Tuesday, January 23, 2007 09:30: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 09:46
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Although it's a bit more work, I can see reasons to have different fields listed separately. PDN, title, and post count changes should be tracked. Those archives would be nice to have available. Member number is obviously necessary. Everything else should either be available only by looking up that number on Spiderweb or by opt-in, and if you're feeling programmish it wouldn't hurt to have current profile and profile archives availabe as separate opt-in choices. —Alorael, who occasionally thinks that having the internet permanently recorded would go a long way towards promoting not only netiquette but also plain old civility online. On the other hand, anarchy is part of what the internet is about and it would be a shame to lose the spectacular flamewars. N00b! Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 09:47
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Yes, that was me. Or rather, that happened to me too. Which is also why I want to make it as easy as possible to opt out. The PPP archives were a bit tough to manage in the past - you can't very well censor part of an HTML file. With the posts stored in a relational database, it wouldn't be a big difficulty to add the possibility of removing content from the archives. The forum archives save things that were meant for public view - real communication, not user data - which is why so far I've had less qualms with it. But if people want their posts to be gone there too, I'll put in similar feature for PPP. Edit: That's the third time my post has been sniped in this topic. :rolleyes: [ Tuesday, January 23, 2007 10:07: Message edited by: Arancaytar ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 10:13
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quote:Nobody you know. If you're keen to guess, you can fill "/remove/n" with all numbers from 1-8000 and see which returns an "already delisted" error. Or look through the lists to find all gaps and check it against Spiderweb to see which profile is not listed, but still exists on Spiderweb. :P -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 11:09
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I don't think there are grounds for legal action, Aran - it's more a matter of good policy. Since all information posted within the structure of this forum is "public," no one can reasonably have the expectation that information they "publish" remain private. Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 11:45
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"Reasonably" never stopped lawsuits before. It's unlikely to win, but it's still a hassle. —Alorael, who still thinks it's also unlikely to lead to lawsuits. Nothing on Spiderweb is likely to cause that much upset, really, and most people just aren't that litigious. Opt-in/out is still the Right Thing, though. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 11:54
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quote:Uhg, so that means my real name might be in there somewhere? Not that I care that much, but I can certainly see why someone might have a problem. Post count, monikers and titles seem like fair ground, but personal information that people can change, I wouldn't go there in today's world. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 12:03
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*checks* No, unless your real name is Tullegolar Manaliana. -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 12:15
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Well, I initially put my real name in there, then I changed it soon afterwards. I must have done it quick enough to avoid my first update. I actually just found an old account I made here a long time ago and simply never used, complete with my real name. Since I used an e-mail address that no longer exists, I have no way of accessing it anymore. Of course, that's not Aran's problem. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 12:38
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What was your moniker back then? -------------------- I tried to think of something witty to put here. Needless to say, I failed. Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 13:16
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Originally by Nioca: quote:*Dikiyoba adds Nioca to the list of people who should never ever ever ever have Dikiyoba's phone number.* Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 13:50
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So uh… what's your phone number, Dikiyoba? :P Honestly, I think the opt-out is a good solution. Opt-in would be a pain for Aran. Think about it. Every time someone wants to be included, they say something, and Aran has to get on it. That sounds like a whole lot of trouble to me. As to them not knowing about it… maybe add a pinned post, or an opt-out link at the top of the boards, like the CoC. -------------------- Do not provoke the turtles. They do not like being provoked. -Lenar My website: Nemesis' Refuge Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 14:40
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quote:Um... Why would I want your phone number? -------------------- I tried to think of something witty to put here. Needless to say, I failed. Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Tuesday, January 23 2007 14:56
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By Nemesis: quote:Apparently it's beyond his abilities to automate the process. Of course, validating the members who want on/off the list might be a problem, so maybe it would have to be done manually if that becomes a problem. -------------------- You have a chip on your tooth, your Adam's apple sticks out too far, and you talk too slow. - Univeral Pictures to Clint Eastwood, 1959 Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |