Endeavor and Privacy

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AuthorTopic: Endeavor and Privacy
Arancaytar
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
 written Tuesday, January 23 2007 16:43 Profile Homepage #25
Well, since opt-out (and the reversal of this decision) is already automated, opt-in would be equally easy. Just start with the assumption that everyone has opted out and let them opt in again.

The problem is, as Tullegolar pointed out, when someone has an account they wish to delist but can't access. I literally have to check manually whether this member is authorized. In Tully's case, I can look at the info, maybe compare login names, real names, IPs, and conclude that it's him (and Salmon too... kidding. :P ). In most cases, this is tough.

Oh and:
quote:
Every time someone wants [something], they say something, and Aran has to get on it.
I'm used to it by now. :P

[ Tuesday, January 23, 2007 16:46: Message edited by: Arancaytar ]

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Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum]
My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Tuesday, January 23 2007 16:51 Profile Homepage #26
About PPP archives, I think making them ungoogleable and not re-implementing search feature is probably a good compromise between keeping old posts for nostalgic value and not making them too easily accessable. I don't know if current deletion of PDNs from threads was intentional, but if you disable the search it might not be necessary or useful, because it's easy to link member numbers to current names. So the only reason to delete PDNs is to prevent search, which can be accomplished more directly.

PS And I was thinking about another example of person who had RL e-mail in very old profile, so I guess there are two examples now.

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Jumpin Salmon
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
 written Tuesday, January 23 2007 16:57 Profile #27
Is no one concerned about the archiving program that hasn't been publicized?

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
John S
Agent
Member # 5814
 written Tuesday, January 23 2007 18:42 Profile #28
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

About PPP archives, I think making them ungoogleable and not re-implementing search feature is probably a good compromise between keeping old posts for nostalgic value and not making them too easily accessable. I don't know if current deletion of PDNs from threads was intentional, but if you disable the search it might not be necessary or useful, because it's easy to link member numbers to current names. So the only reason to delete PDNs is to prevent search, which can be accomplished more directly.

PS And I was thinking about another example of person who had RL e-mail in very old profile, so I guess there are two examples now.
I don't usually go back through the PPP and read old posts for pure nostalgia; however, I do use it sometimes to look up old, important posts. I'd prefer that the archives be kept searchable.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon
Well, I'm at least pretty
Posts: 1115 | Registered: Sunday, May 15 2005 07:00
Randomizer
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
 written Tuesday, January 23 2007 19:56 Profile #29
There will always be something that someone posts here that they wish there was no record of or could be searched for easily.

After all Aran someday you will have a job where your boss will be interested in that post about you checking out the board while you are at work.

More employers are using the Internet to get additional information about possible employees. It is getting harder to eliminate all traces of your past life. That's why I kept my real name off the board from the start so this place doesn't show up when you google me.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Arancaytar
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
 written Tuesday, January 23 2007 21:03 Profile Homepage #30
Likewise. It's still not very hard to find out my real name, if you go from my pseudonym, but the reverse is not as easy - gradually, a lot of the old references dropped out of Google.

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Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum]
My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Arancaytar
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
 written Tuesday, January 23 2007 21:10 Profile Homepage #31
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

I don't know if current deletion of PDNs from threads was intentional
It's not. It's an unintended side effect of my precaution of fragmenting the databases more completely: Instead of a single root account, the Drupal sites now use limited accounts that can access only their own database. Which blocks PPP from fetching data from the Endeavor.

Since they're on the same server, I have a plan to include some kind of XML data exchange whereby PPP uses an open interface of the Endeavor to receive member data. This also means that I don't need to implement the security filter twice - the data from the XML interface is already filtered not to show anything private.

Edit: And it's done.

[ Wednesday, January 24, 2007 00:01: Message edited by: Arancaytar ]

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Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum]
My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Tyranicus.
Dollop of Whipped Cream
Member # 391
 written Tuesday, January 23 2007 22:50 Profile Homepage #32
quote:
Originally written by Randomizer:

There will always be something that someone posts here that they wish there was no record of or could be searched for easily.

After all Aran someday you will have a job where your boss will be interested in that post about you checking out the board while you are at work.

More employers are using the Internet to get additional information about possible employees. It is getting harder to eliminate all traces of your past life. That's why I kept my real name off the board from the start so this place doesn't show up when you google me.
Thank God I go by my middle name. My name is known to several of you, but I don't think my full name (first and last) has ever been mentioned on this board, and i hope to keep it that way. :P

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"Tyranicus is about the only one that still posts in the Nethergate Forum." —Randomizer
Spiderweb Chat Room
Shadow Vale - My site, home of the Spiderweb Chat Database, BoA Scenario Database, & the A1 Quest List, among other things.
Posts: 562 | Registered: Friday, December 14 2001 08:00
Arancaytar
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
 written Wednesday, January 24 2007 03:30 Profile Homepage #33
Most people are voting for opt-out, some for opt-in, and some for the removal of non-basic fields.

My idea for a compromise is this: A more detailed form allows everyone to choose which fields to display (in the same fashion as the removal itself). This way, there is an opt-out method for the statistical part of the information (name, posts, title), while most of the profile is opt-in.

The settings are:

Disabled. The field won't show up anywhere, in lists, profiles or searches.Current. The current value of the field is displayed, no older values are.Track last month. The current and last known value are public; differences are listed in the "Track changes" pages.All archives. All archived values of the field are available and can be compared.The defaults would be something like this.
Disabled:: Real name, locationCurrent:: ICQ, AIM, Occupation, Interests, Favorite game, Birthday.Track last month: HomepageArchives: Displayed name, Posts, Title, Karma (votes and score)(Defaults can be freely changed, as described above.)
I'll implement something like this over the weekend. Meanwhile, it would be good to know what you think of the default values. Should something be set differently?

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Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum]
My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Dikiyoba
Councilor
Member # 6600
 written Wednesday, January 24 2007 06:22 Profile Homepage #34
Why would you want to keep an archive for karma?

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Arancaytar
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
 written Wednesday, January 24 2007 07:29 Profile Homepage #35
Because on one hand it's interesting to see who got new votes, and on the other it doesn't seem very personally revealing to show those numbers. If you disagree, well, they don't need to be shown by default.

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Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum]
My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Wednesday, January 24 2007 09:19 Profile Homepage #36
quote:
Originally written by Arancaytar:

...
The settings are:

Disabled. The field won't show up anywhere, in lists, profiles or searches.Current. The current value of the field is displayed, no older values are.Track last month. The current and last known value are public; differences are listed in the "Track changes" pages.All archives. All archived values of the field are available and can be compared.The defaults would be something like this.
Disabled:: Real name, locationCurrent:: ICQ, AIM, Occupation, Interests, Favorite game, Birthday.Track last month: HomepageArchives: Displayed name, Posts, Title, Karma (votes and score)...
These defaults sound good. I'd include Favorite Game in archives, because it doesn't sound like a privacy issue and would present interesting statistical data.
Would you be storing full profiles somewhere in case people decide to opt-in later? I think that would be fine, because it's equivalent of somebody sitting down with a pencil and writing the data to his notebook. (I was one of the 2 people voting for opt-in.) Most people probably object to information being easily available, rather than to the fact that it's stored by somebody (once you put some information online, it's out of your hands).

[ Wednesday, January 24, 2007 09:21: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Arancaytar
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
 written Wednesday, January 24 2007 10:31 Profile Homepage #37
No, I'd actually planned on just making the information inaccessible, because this way it's still possible to change your mind without a big hassle. I agree - what isn't public can't really raise privacy issues (unless we're talking about the NSA).

Although if someone really, really wanted their data to be eternally and utterly deleted and never again crawled, I'd probably give in.

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Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum]
My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Or else o'erleap.
Law Bringer
Member # 335
 written Wednesday, January 24 2007 10:48 Profile Homepage #38
I'm actually interested in knowing who gets karma votes, although the actual number isn't very meaningful. I'm willing to bet that most votes are for people who are offensive, not people who are nice, but I can't prove it without data.

Actually, I can't prove it at all because I am lazy. But now I can potentially prove it!

Other than that, I think your default settings are good, Aran.

—Alorael, who discovered through the miracle of Google that his name and moniker are still tenuously connected. He's rather surprised, since he knows there are a number of places where his online and offline personas are linked. It's apparently just not obvious enough for Google or lost in the deep web.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
moonear
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
 written Wednesday, January 24 2007 11:55 Profile #39
quote:
I'm actually interested in knowing who gets karma votes, although the actual number isn't very meaningful. I'm willing to bet that most votes are for people who are offensive, not people who are nice, but I can't prove it without data.
Looking at spidweb profiles it actually appears that the opposite is true. Those with high karma vote totals generally appear to have high karma as well.

Low karma may be related to newness on the board/unwillingness to abide by the informal rules of the board. As such those people may leave or reform.

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"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
Arancaytar
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
 written Wednesday, January 24 2007 12:28 Profile Homepage #40
quote:
Originally written by Let and if let...:

I'm actually interested in knowing who gets karma votes, although the actual number isn't very meaningful. I'm willing to bet that most votes are for people who are offensive, not people who are nice, but I can't prove it without data.

Actually, I can't prove it at all because I am lazy. But now I can potentially prove it!

Other than that, I think your default settings are good, Aran.

—Alorael, who discovered through the miracle of Google that his name and moniker are still tenuously connected. He's rather surprised, since he knows there are a number of places where his online and offline personas are linked. It's apparently just not obvious enough for Google or lost in the deep web.
I vaguely remember a name, but when I try to recall it, I only end up with the key exchange protocol "Diffie-Hellman".

[ Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:30: Message edited by: Arancaytar ]

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Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum]
My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Dikiyoba
Councilor
Member # 6600
 written Wednesday, January 24 2007 12:30 Profile Homepage #41
Originally by Fatman:

quote:
Looking at spidweb profiles it actually appears that the opposite is true. Those with high karma vote totals generally appear to have high karma as well.
I think Alorael was talking about the total number of karma votes per month, not per individual. Nice individuals rack up karma votes slowly by being here either a long time or a lot (or both). Offensive individuals rack up karma votes quickly by being stupid and then leaving/getting banned.

Okay, Dikiyoba is now curious how the numbers play out. Tracking and archiving karma is a very good idea.

Edit: Added quote.

[ Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:34: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ]
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Or else o'erleap.
Law Bringer
Member # 335
 written Wednesday, January 24 2007 12:33 Profile Homepage #42
I meant per individual, actually. I think people are more likely to lash out than to express appreciation. Of course, some people appreciate others lashing out, hence the first rule of karma: it ends up at four stars.

—Alorael, who expects Imban to come along and start handing out his one stars promptly.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
moonear
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
 written Wednesday, January 24 2007 13:08 Profile #43
quote:
I meant per individual, actually. I think people are more likely to lash out than to express appreciation. Of course, some people appreciate others lashing out, hence the first rule of karma: it ends up at four stars.
Either I am the exception that proves the rule or I need to lash out more. Slarty how's your back, I'm thinking of tearing a strip off of it.

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"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
Dikiyoba
Councilor
Member # 6600
 written Wednesday, January 24 2007 13:17 Profile Homepage #44
Ack, has this turned into a stealth karma thread?

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Arancaytar
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
 written Friday, January 26 2007 06:41 Profile Homepage #45
The advanced privacy settings (and accompanying defaults) are done. The member profiles page, list and change tracker already use them.

Settings can be adjusted as before.

Known bug:

The table pager will react oddly. Results are run through the filter after being fetched, but the pager function works at the database level. Thus, hidden profiles are still counted in the total, and there will be "empty" pages. I'll think of a solution soon.

If you can see any other problem (most importantly, a way to access fields that are supposed to be hidden) please say so.

----

On another note, the site now has an open XML interface.

The URL http://endeavor.ermarian.net/xml/member/ will return all (public) information about #n in XML format. Several profiles can be fetched at once by separating them with "+", as in:

http://endeavor.ermarian.net/xml/member/1+2+3

So in case there are any developers here who know their way around XML, you can now make use of that.

[ Friday, January 26, 2007 06:51: Message edited by: Arancaytar ]

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Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum]
My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Micawber
Agent
Member # 2759
 written Sunday, January 28 2007 11:48 Profile Homepage #46
Bug report:

The 'homepage' information ostensibly defaults to 'completely private', but the data still shows up in the profile if you go back to in or before August 2006. Personally I'm not that bothered, but you probably want to fix it.

Additionally, the 'member for' information is a teensy bit wrong in or before January 2007. (It seems to have arbitrarily added 33 years 9 months 1 day.)

[ Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:02: Message edited by: Micawber. ]

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"I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius

Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
moonear
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
 written Sunday, January 28 2007 13:07 Profile #47
On a sad note my Karma on Ermarian is the same as it is here although I am not the same evil character. Thus, those that meet me only through browsing the statistics will think I am truly despicable.

Someone really needs to do something about this situation...

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"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
Gavin
Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
 written Sunday, January 28 2007 15:55 Profile Homepage #48
quote:
Originally written by Bismark*:

On a sad note my Karma on Ermarian is the same as it is here although I am not the same evil character. Thus, those that meet me only through browsing the statistics will think I am truly despicable.

Someone really needs to do something about this situation...
Agreed. We should be able to change our ratings of people.

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Do not provoke the turtles.
They do not like being provoked.
-Lenar

My website: Nemesis' Refuge
Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00
Dikiyoba
Councilor
Member # 6600
 written Sunday, January 28 2007 16:21 Profile Homepage #49
Ack, the stealth karma thread is back. *hands out ones*

Oh, and since I just saw this:

Originally by Tyranicus:

quote:
My name is known to several of you, but I don't think my full name (first and last) has ever been mentioned on this board, and i hope to keep it that way.
Dikiyoba believes it has been, in a name thread a while back. Not that Dikiyoba remembers what it was.

[ Sunday, January 28, 2007 16:23: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ]
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00

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