Saddam Hussein's Execution

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AuthorTopic: Saddam Hussein's Execution
Warrior
Member # 7000
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quote:
Originally written by Nemesis:

Oh, because he's a former president. He MUST be a good guy. You can't speak ill of him after he's dead.
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IMAGE(http://www.medaloffreedom.com/RichardMNixon.gif)

These 3 gentlemen will be happy to hear that. :P

[ Saturday, December 30, 2006 18:21: Message edited by: Tyran ]

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"It's sort of like Star Wars. Except Jeff didn't make Erika shoot first in Avernum 3, nor did he introduce annoying computer-animated aliens." —Arancaytar
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Posts: 178 | Registered: Thursday, April 6 2006 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
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Or they would, if they weren't dead.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 27
Profile #27
At least, now the world can rest easy.
Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
Profile #28
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

A martyr? For who? He wasn't exactly the most popular guy around, and no friend to Osama bin Laden either.
He doesn't have to be a friend to UBL to be a martyr. Or popular, for that matter.

People treat Hitler as a martyr, and Hitler was much, much worse, both for Germany and as a human being.

quote:
Originally written by 7Synergy7:

Hanging is still an optional form of execution in Delaware and right here in Washington State. No one's used it for a decade though.

To add a point to my previous post, what makes me cringe is to see prisoners housed and fed and maintained for the rest of their existence and never have to give anything back or do anything to make any kind of reparations. And we all pay for them to just hang out for the rest of their lives.

Put them to work. Teach them the concept of responsibility for their actions by making them have to work at something to make some kind of recompense and to fund their continued existence...like most of the rest of us have to do.

-S-

Prison is a terrifying hellhole where dodging fatal violence and brutal rape is a full-time job. It's difficult to wrap your mind around how horrifyingly abusive the American prison system is even if you're not deliberately ignoring it.

But, of course, the concerns of fostering 'responsibility' outweigh any empathetic connection to prisoners as human beings, right? I guess I'm not old enough to have learned how to look at these problems intellectually instead of emotionally.

You cozy, sanctimonious jackass.

[ Saturday, December 30, 2006 20:30: Message edited by: Protocols of the Elders of Zion ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
Profile Homepage #29
quote:
Originally written by Arancaytar:

To say anyone has an execution "coming" for improper conduct in a trial is ludicrously ignorant and shows you do not understand the justice system at all.
There is no serious justice aspect to the demo version of a trial that Saddam underwent or to the RL execution of this old man. It would have helped to bring out the facts and have Saddam try to justify his deeds, like a bad joke that becomes more evidently a bad joke the more you explain it. This might have made it obvious to ALL Iraqis that he had been wrong. Now it is just evident that he was killed as a US-marionette who knew too much - in time for the Democratic convention on Jan 4 - and with the last appeal decided by a US judge.

As the farce nature of the whole procedure became more apparent every day, Saddam had to be disposed of just to end it. A desperate measure of incapacity.

Just compare what was achieved in Chile by having the public controversy about Pinochet's immunity fought out by peaceful means rather than the CIA-methods he used himself.

Just compare what was achieved in Serbia by having Milosevic stand trial in The Hague and then publishing the proof that he was not killed.

Just compare what the truth and reconciliation commissions have achieved in South Africa.

Just compare what a testimonial the living and imprisoned Hess was in Germany for the continuing (if token) commitment never again let the country to slide into fascism.

I do agree that Ford's decision to pardon Nixon gave away a similar chance. The failure to bring the evil workings of the Vietnam War to some closure may be at the heart of the decades of tragedy that may be perceived as US foreign policy with Saddam a particularly long-lived marionette.

As Ahmad Tibi writes in ynetnews
quote:
Iraq could have continued to be, despite its totalitarian regime, a strong country and possibly even an element that could have assisted a genuine regional peace process.

The irony of faith is that currently there are two people rubbing their hands with glee as they watch the noose around Saddam Hussein's neck – George Bush and Ahmadinejad. And that says it all.


[ Sunday, December 31, 2006 14:08: Message edited by: too kraut, don't read ]

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The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies. (not mine)
Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #30
quote:
Originally written by Protocols of the Elders of Zion:

Prison is a terrifying hellhole where dodging fatal violence and brutal rape is a full-time job. It's difficult to wrap your mind around how horrifyingly abusive the American prison system is even if you're not deliberately ignoring it.

But, of course, the concerns of fostering 'responsibility' outweigh any empathetic connection to prisoners as human beings, right? I guess I'm not old enough to have learned how to look at these problems intellectually instead of emotionally.

You cozy, sanctimonious jackass.

Ironically, that sounded like a highly presumptive, reactive, emotionally-fuelled response on your part. I noted you did not bother to inquire any more specifically what my thoughts actually were about our prison system as a whole, but you condemningly presumed to assume the worst on my part. I’d never want you on my jury. You’ve already judged and condemned me in this context before even hearing the evidence. So forgive me if I am inclined to see you as the worst kind of self-righteous hypocrite just looking to displace some hostility in a haphazard, knee-jerk reactive fashion.

To address what you levelled at me, yes the American prison system is horrible, and I have more sympathy than you will ever know for those sucked out of sight into the dark, pointless, hopeless pit it represents. It’s throwing away lives, neither offering them redemption nor rehabilitation. I do think prisoners would benefit from being safely kept AND being made to work in some meaningful and humane fashion to offer reparation for their crimes. You may not acknowledge it, but being productive is far more psychologically healthy than languishing about with no further purpose in your existence. I said nothing prior about prisoners not being worthy of protection, respect, dignity, love, care, or other attentions a kinder, more positivistic society might choose to show its criminals.

Thanks for the vote of faith and kind words, friend. Sheesh.

-S-

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Agent
Member # 2820
Profile #31
Corporal punishment is so much simpler and cheaper.

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Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #32
quote:
You cozy, sanctimonious jackass.
Alec, please cut it out.

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Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
Profile Homepage #33
quote:
Originally written by Arancaytar:

To say anyone has an execution "coming" for improper conduct in a trial is ludicrously ignorant and shows you do not understand the justice system at all.
Although it's not labeled, I was sort of half-kidding there too. I do think that Saddam Hussein deserved the death penalty, at the very least. Obviously not because of his improper conduct, but because of his actions as his country's dictator. I just think his comments were quite out of place, given his position at the time.

And it's true, I don't even claim to understand the justice system in all of its details.

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Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #34
quote:
Originally written by Cryptozoology:

Are you really unaware of how heavily the US economy already relies on prison labour? Just because the media wants you to believe that every prisoner sits around in a jacuzzi all day, doesn't make it so.
That wasn't my point or accusation at all. I am talking about having prisoners make recompense in some fashion to their victims, not to the state. That is meaningful. Just putting them to work in general doesn't connect their punishment/consequences with their crime. And it doesn't do those who were wronged or damaged any good.

I have no clear idea what would be best to do with someone like Saddam, but the incarceration/punishment/recompense should be directly relevant and meaningful to the crimes and offenses he had committed.

-S-

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
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Sorry about the misunderstanding, then. But when you say that prisoners are "paid just to hang out for the rest of their lives", surely you can see how that sort of talk can get you misinterpreted.

Anyway, I'm not sure your idea is realistic in every case. Seems to me like the only meaningful ways in which Saddam could make any kind of recompense for his actions would all be entirely dependent on Saddam actually being willing to do them.

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 2820
Profile #36
Not to be a smartass, but I think his death brought closure to many grieving families in Iraq. That probably recompenses them better than a mere life sentence.

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Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are.
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Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies!
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Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos.
Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #37
Eh, I'm fine with the method of Saddam's death, and I'm just glad that he got the axe. Or, rather, the rope. Now, we just need to go round up the dictators we've let go over the years.

My main issue with the death penalty is the whole "Then are we any better than the murderer?" angle. However, the fact that we think about the morality of it at all reminds me that we're basically just better people.

Blah blah gray areas blah blah. They're there, but Saddam's crimes were not a gray area.

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Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #38
quote:
Not to be a smartass, but I think his death brought closure to many grieving families in Iraq. That probably recompenses them better than a mere life sentence.
Reading Riverbend's Blog from Baghdad makes me doubt your suggestions.
Baghdad Burning

[ Monday, January 01, 2007 21:45: Message edited by: ef ]

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Polaris
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Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Law Bringer
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Profile Homepage #39
quote:
Originally written by [url=http:
//riverbendblog.blogspot.com/]Riverbend[/url]:
It's outrageous- an execution during Eid. Muslims all over the world (with the exception of Iran) are outraged. Eid is a time of peace, of putting aside quarrels and anger- at least for the duration of Eid.
...

Now, I'm not exactly certain what kind of mental lapse allows this sort of thing to happen, but... gah, that's stupid. It transcends stupid. It needs a new word. It's so stupid, it makes me wonder if the U.S. was involved in setting the date.

Let's take a peaceful holiday, and schedule an act of violence meant as retribution for many more acts of violence right in the middle of it.

(re-checks Wikipedia entry for Eid ul-Adha)

Wait. The holiday began on the 30th.

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #40
quote:
Wait. The holiday began on the 30th.
Our media said that he was executed in the early morning hours of December 30th. Did yours give a different date?

edit:
quote:
It's so stupid, it makes me wonder if the U.S. was involved in setting the date.
Regardless of whether they were or not, I'm afraid that people in arab countries will conclude that they must have been. And may understand this choice as one of deliberate disrespect for islamic tradition and islamic faith.

[ Monday, January 01, 2007 23:00: Message edited by: ef ]

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Polaris
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Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #41
Apparently there is some confusion, since Robinator posted the morning of the twenty-ninth on the first post of this topic. But he was executed on the 30th.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #42
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

Apparently there is some confusion, since Robinator posted the morning of the twenty-ninth on the first post of this topic. But he was executed on the 30th.

Dikiyoba.

It seems that Robin was calling the shots. So to speak.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Canned
Member # 7704
Profile #43
Hey Sadam was a man and that execution shouldn't have happened any way . (why don't they kill Bush he after all wasn't elected democratically he stole the ride of presidency and the horse of course).
The fact is that Robin may be a CIA AGENT READING OUR POST TO SPY ON US !!!! then why would he have a not relly cumon name, because when we will turn our back on an real agent he would have killed us all.

( I am a martian you see!!! I get always get fed up with those guys are following me so i make an exception in the terms of execution with agents, i relly hate a real good spy ).

[ Tuesday, January 02, 2007 00:31: Message edited by: upon mars ]

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You can jump off a bridge, fire a gun in your mouth, drink poison,or going in to the tiger's pit but you will still end up dead it's a mater of time and how .
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Shaper
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President Bush stole a horse?

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You lose.
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Triad Mage
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He was executed before Eid began, and the Iraqi courts set the date - the US wanted to wait longer but did promise to stay out of it.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Agent
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Perhaps there's a general build-up of happy Eid feelings and general benevolence prior to the actual Eid holiday?

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon
Well, I'm at least pretty

Posts: 1115 | Registered: Sunday, May 15 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #47
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

He was executed before Eid began, and the Iraqi courts set the date - the US wanted to wait longer but did promise to stay out of it.
Woohoo! Time to celebrate! Somebody made a huge mistake in Iraq... and it wasn't us!

IMAGE(http://www.awcperth.org/web4th-018cake.jpg)

This marks the end of an era! Iraqis are actually taking responsibility for their country, and screwing it up just as bad as we did!

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #48
quote:
He was executed before Eid began
Eid ul-Adha began on December 30 for Sunni, and on December 31 for Shia.

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Polaris
Rache's A3 Site reformatted 2/3 done
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Triad Mage
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He was executed around 6 am Iraqi time, before dawn. The holiday begins at sunrise.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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