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Originally written by Icky:

Civilians are dying because Israel is unable to not respond to an attack by what is, in a very real sense, Lebanon.

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Originally written by GremlinJoe:

I said five yerars ago that Israel would be confronted by Iran, China, And Russia, Plus Gearga and syria.

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And no one believed me! Why? Well I'll tell you why. Apperently a person has to have an I.Q. of 200 to be listened to and all I hade was 180 oh boo hoo. Well, what I said was true and no one cares. How about that? I'm so irritated.

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Actually they might not have believed me because I said I got it from the Bible. I can't remember. Its actually in Ezekial. And a few other places. Oh well.

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Originally written by Zeviz:

How long would Germany ignore "provocations"

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Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:

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Originally written by GremlinJoe:

I said five yerars ago that Israel would be confronted by Iran, China, And Russia, Plus Gearga and syria.

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Georgia.

For the record, China and Russia have fairly cold diplomatic relations, and so do China and Iran. Georgia is a non-entity and Syria has been officially at war for decades.

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Originally written by Zeviz:

How long would Germany ignore "provocations"

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Ask the right person and they'll say "until 1935".

But, of course, the fact that the philosophy of revenge leaves one with odd bedfellows should be news to nobody.[/QB]

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one big war to get rid of all those troublemakers is the only reasonable course of action.

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Originally written by GremlinJoe:

You know what I say, one big war to get rid of all those troublemakers is the only reasonable course of action.

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Letters to the New York Times, December 4, 1948

New Palestine Party Visit of Menachem Begin and Aims of Political Movement Discussed

TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haberut), a political party closely akin inits organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, rightwing, chauvinist organizaiton in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the ìmpression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcorne his. visit. It is inconceìvable that those who oppose fascism throughout: the world, if correcly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contibutions, public manifesfations in Begin's behalf and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the
American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they opcnly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

ATTACK ON ARAB VILLAGE

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peacefal village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants — 240 men, wornen, and children —- and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives tbrough the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it wideiy, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the generai havoc at Deir Yassin.

The Deir Yassim incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewìsh community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and raciaì superionty. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destuction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian. Fascist model. During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewìsh community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute. The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detractced from the Jewìsh defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.

DISCREPANCIES SEEN

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past perfomance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" in the goal.

In te light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign
against Begin's efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin. The undersigned therefore take this means of publiclv presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of
urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

(signed)

ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ, HANNAH ARENDT, ABRAHAM BRICK, RABBI JESSURUN CARDOZO,ALBERT EINSTEIN , HERMAN EISEN, M.D., HAYIM FINEMAN, M. GALLEN, M.D., H.H. HARRIS, ZELIG S. HARRIS, SIDNEY HOOK, FRED KARUSH, BRURIA KAUFMAN, IRMA L. LINDHEIM, NACHMAN MAISEL, SEYMOUR MELMAN, MYER D. MENDELSON, M.D., HARRY M. OSLINSKY, SAMUEL PITLICK, FRITZ ROHRLICH, LOUIS P. ROKER, RUTH SAGIS, ITZHAK SANKOWSKY, I.J. SHOENBERG, SAMUEL SHUMAN, M. SINGER, IRMA WOLFE, STEFAN WOLFE.

New York December 2, 1948.

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Originally written by Sir David:

If the situation were in the hands of PM Olmert's detractors, Israel would sit back and whine to the rest of the world while allowing avowed racists and terrorists to destroy its people, its buildings and its morale one shell at a time. That is if it hadn't already been destroyed in the mid-20th century, which would be entirely likely. Call it what you want, but to defend Hezbollah, Ahmedinejad, Hamas or any of their ilk is to say that the Nazis weren't so bad after all, just they were too... well, legitimate. We're talking about people who have publicly stated their intention to finish the job Hitler started, and I hate Nazi analogies as much as the rest of you.

I'm in agreement with Alorael about Israel's actions. About those of Hezbollah... the thought that anyone could justify their actions makes me sick. No, Lebanon's civilians shouldn't be killed for the actions of a terrorist organization within their ranks. But what can you do when confronted by such people?

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Originally written by GremlinJoe:

Oh for crying out loud, Israel is perfectly correct in its course of action. The only mistake they've made was to let the world boss them around in the first place. What I mean to say is, I'm angry that everyone is always telling them how they're wrong when they aren't. How long were they pressured by the international community into making peace with terrorists?

To many years have been spent giving in to to Israel's enemies. You know what I say, one big war to get rid of all those troublemakers is the only reasonable course of action. And it boggles the mind that anyone would say Israel is the bad guy in all this. I'll bet that if Israel had attacked Iraq and deposed of Saddam the world would be twice as outraged as it is about America doing so even though they'd have even better reason.

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Cute.

However, your argument simply proves my point: considering that German response to a percieved provocation was murder of 6 million people, and America's responce to a "provocation" of 9/11 was "regime change" in two countries, including one that had nothing to do with the attack, Israeli responce of bombing a couple of bridges and offices of people who ordered the "provocations" looks like an example of perfect restraint. :)

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Originally written by GremlinJoe:

Oh for crying out loud, Israel is perfectly correct in its course of action. The only mistake they've made was to let the world boss them around in the first place. What I mean to say is, I'm angry that everyone is always telling them how they're wrong when they aren't. How long were they pressured by the international community into making peace with terrorists?

To many years have been spent giving in to to Israel's enemies. You know what I say, one big war to get rid of all those troublemakers is the only reasonable course of action. And it boggles the mind that anyone would say Israel is the bad guy in all this. I'll bet that if Israel had attacked Iraq and deposed of Saddam the world would be twice as outraged as it is about America doing so even though they'd have even better reason.

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