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Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas:

EDIT: Okay, what is putting that space in there? Either use the link to the page containing all the videos or copy and paste into your adress bar.

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Originally written by Redstart:

Of course what happened to the native Americans was a travesty, but on the other hand, this board probably wouldn't exist if it had not occurred.

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Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.

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If somebody says something you disagree with, and you assert a different opinion, the conversation is moved forward dramatically when you explain and support your assertions. Asserting without explanation is not helpful.

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Originally written by Zorro:

For those of you interested in this topic, I found Jared Diamond’s "Guns, Germs and Steel" to be a particularly good book. Diamond seeks the answer to the question of why Europe did the invading and not the other way around. The proximate causes are simple to identify - Europeans had guns, steel weapons and armor, and diseases to which they'd developed relative immunities but wiped out native populations with whom they made contact.

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Diamond then begins to question why Europeans where the ones who developed guns, germs and steel before other cultures around the world. At the risk is simplifying this book WAY more than it deserves, it was because Eurasians developed on a stretch of land that was particularly conducive to human development. They had access to a greater number of domesticable animals and edible plants, and because the weather patterns don't vary as substantially across the Eurasian continent (as opposed to the American continents), crop discoveries and inventions from neighboring societies tended to work elsewhere. In the Americas, for instance, the Aztec agricultural developments could not be imported to other neighboring civilizations because the climatic changes made them generally useless.

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The point is that the high levels of domesticated animals and food production allowed for increased population density (which led to greater resistance to diseases). And the favorable conditions for technological exchange allowed inventions from China to migrate over to Spain, and vice versa. This led to the guns and steel.

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Now, my description above is a definite bastardization of Diamond’s excellent work. I’m just trying to give the “10,000 foot view” of the book.
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Originally written by Major:

I think I have found the problem in this argument I'm only talking about where I live.

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Compared to African Americans and Hispanics, Native Americans are by and large forgotten about in the US as a whole. Perhaps silent is not the right word, unheard would be better.

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In the US yes in oklahoma no.
The Indians I know who actually live the life you describe - gov't money, no taxes, reservation and such - have had remarkably fast and poor lives. Maybe it's different from Oklahoma, but that seems to be the story for the American southwest in general.

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How many people can name at least two African American civil rights leaders? How many can name the equivalent for Native Americans?

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I can't name two for either :P
But, yes blacks have made a big deal about it compared to indians.
You can't name two for either? I learned about Malcolm X and MLK in middle school. And if there's something wrong, there ought to be a big deal made, oughtn't there?

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As far as what's been done relative to the atrocities (which pale in comparison to other minorities), it has been pathetically small. Not saying absolutely nothing, but comparatively nothing.

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Yes again for the US no again for oklahoma(I'm not saying that they are as bad as other races(I hate that term) it's just that they getting alot.
You realize that Oklahoma has near to no indigenous population, right? The Indians living there are there as a consequence of being driven out of Georgia on foot. Look up the 'Trail of Tears' sometime. While the current situation might seem unjust to you, it's been worse... much worse.

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Also, saying their privledged really is sort of insulting considering that statistics put their average economic status well below all other ethnic groups in the US.

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Ok I maybe shouldn't have put such emphises on privledged. But, I was just trying to point out that they aren't doing bad here.
Maybe not the visible ones. The ones on the reservation tend to live pretty piss-poor lives no matter where the reservation is.

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Face it, we destroyed them and have done very little to get them up to the level as everyone else.

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Has any other nation given another nation it's own nation when they conquered them? Oh and by the way there up to the level here. :) (I am 1/32 indian myself)

There's really no comparison in history for what the US did to the Indians (and other American countries, too - I'm just more familiar with here). And even if there were, would we really want to console ourselves saying 'Hey, we're at least better than that'? It's kind of like people who look at Iraq and say 'Hey, at least we aren't like Saddam Hussein'. As if we can't do any better.

And I'm 1/16... uncle tom. :P

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Originally written by Major:

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How many people can name at least two African American civil rights leaders? How many can name the equivalent for Native Americans?

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I can't name two for either :P

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