Eep! Christians! (Split from Christian Radio)
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 15:32
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quote:Nothing obvious about that at all. You haven't ruled out the possibility that even if God exists and saves those who worship him, it might be morally better to reject him and accept eternal damnation. Or that God is perverse and saves only those who don't believe in him. Or that God is going to send everyone to hell regardless of their beliefs. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 15:39
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Many thanks to Imban. Ben, I believe that's loosely a description of Pascal's Wager, which is generally considered a false dichotomy (sp?). In other words, if you're just doing it to hedge your bets, you should stay off the beef as well (Hinduism), not to mention pork (Judaism), and have as many kids as possible (Mormonism). Also, you'll have to pray daily to an assortment of gods, including five times to Allah. And then you'll die and it'll turn out the Greeks were right all along, and you'll be thrown into Hades for bein no fun at all. Following Christianity because you think it's true is a more sensible thing to do, I think. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 16:50
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Argh. Beat me to it. -------------------- And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it. -The Last Pendragon Polaris = joy. In case of emergency, break glass. Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 17:08
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quote:Replace "think" with "believe." Honestly, none of this has given me any reason to believe, and my reasons not to believe have yet to be countered. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 17:37
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quote:Right. “Him” is for convenience and out of the usually depicted father role. One could call God “El-Shaddhai,” (the breasted one,) just as correctly. God is all that is male and female and more. quote:God does say, “My thoughts are higher than your thoughts, and my ways are higher than your ways.” God is Source/Father/Creator, so yes, a “higher force.” God’s the only force, and we have force by virtue of our having come out of Him, yet also remaining a part of Him. Don’t ask me to explain the paradox, but we have the earthly genetic/family experience to give us a conception of it. God is a family, not a caste-system. Honor and privilege come with maturity and demonstration of ability. quote:Fighting people is in your thinking. I was picturing a weight-lifter. But the reality is that there is something in the spiritual realm which opposes life and truth, and we are to grow up and overcome it by virtue of wrestling with it and recognizing it and rejecting it until we do. quote:The “gauntlet” is training. I’d call it something more like learn to “choose the right way in wisdom” (rather than in naiveté,) “learn some self-discipline,” and “learn why love is the law.” You gotta train to win the medal, save lives as a doctor, fight in the army. Training shows us approved and stronger than our opposing forces we encounter in training. When we are trained, disciplined, stronger, wiser, we qualify for further responsibilities. Little children have a nice existence sitting around receiving gifts and having all things done for them. It’s much more satisfying to grow up, prove oneself capable, and go create and procreate. It’s a tough training field, but well worth it. quote:No. I am attributing much of our knowing of God to interpersonal experience. quote:God is relevant whether we acknowledge it or not, because God continues to do what God wills and His spiritual laws continue to operate. God becomes consciously relevant to us when we begin to know God for ourselves. We can then become more of an agent of God’s will rather than merely a recipient of God’s will. quote:You shouldn’t and won’t until you do. God doesn’t put the burden of proof in our hands. He takes the responsibility to open our eyes to His Being. quote:Humanity is not my god. It is the family of God with the qualities of God in process of being refined and remembered. You mentioned severing limbs. Re-membering is bringing back to our awareness our connection with God and His nature, as well as the reattaching of that which, at least in our imagination, has been cut off from us. quote:Spirit is energy (isn’t everything?), attitude, the wind no one can see but the affects of which can be readily seen and heard. It’s lots of things I don’t understand. One person walking into a room can change its atmosphere with her spirit. A heart caught up in love can be mightily transformed by that spirit. quote:We cut ourselves off by deadening our thinking and developing our own faulty conscience and estimation of “good and evil.” Imagine children setting their own rules in their house. We’ve done something like that with religion. God doesn’t hope. He wills and does. We’re impatient. He is patient and methodical. quote:You would like all things showered upon you as free gifts? Many things must be earned by demonstration of our capacity to handle them responsibly. Children get gifts from Dad. Adults employ creative and proactive energies to make things happen and bring things into being. There is no heaven as a place. It’s simply the place wherever God is ruling, particularly within the heart of us. But reunions of all that have been lost have been promised. God has dominion over life and death. There is nothing irretrievable to Him. quote:We have a degree of power over the world, but hardly dominion. Many perils of life and nature readily dispatch us and we are very irresponsible with the domination we do wield. We don’t have dominion over ourselves yet. Ain’t no way we’re going to have dominion over the world outside. God doesn’t punish in the capricious sense. He disciplines to correct us so we may live and learn the way that works for all of us. Again, even literal death need not be a permanent end. We’re impatient and unaware of many things out of our sight and knowing. quote:I mean that loving humanity shows deference, respect, and trust for the Father Who is pleased when his children learn to get along and love each other. By describing one of His roles as Father, God tells us something about His desires and drives in that role. We are given earthly fatherhood to demonstrate it for us. Wise fathers don’t demand love from children like tyrants...they foster it and earn it. quote:What makes you think that all of earth’s history and all personal experience hasn’t been contributing exactly what has been appropriate so far for us towards our learning the ways of love and truth? quote:Christianity has turned it backwards. The obliteration has already taken place when we got the thick notion in our head that we were alienated from God and that we lack somehow. Awakening and restoration of spiritual relationship is what we can expect. We are living our obliteration, our hells right now. Sucks, don't it? Why do you think so many people ARE in torment right here right now? It's not punishment. We did it to ourselves. God is gracious enough to be patiently working to save us from ourselves. It's simply a work not yet complete. quote:Becoming greater means becoming mature and proven enough spiritually to be granted further responsibility and authority to bless people. Nothing becomes more satisfying or rewarding. [ Sunday, February 19, 2006 17:45: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6666
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 17:50
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Wow. Many thanks to Imban for going through the trouble of separating the above into their own thread. I'm looking forward to seeing the debate proceed, eventhough so far I'm having trouble reading through Synergy's posts with all the religious rhetoric. Still, this seems to be a very lively conversation. Edit: Damn, missed the second page. To participate in the thread however, I'm with TM in the claim that whether or not God exists, if he/she/it doesn't see it necessary to make itself manifest, we have no obligation to follow its wishes and/or to try to exact its will upon humanity. [ Sunday, February 19, 2006 18:45: Message edited by: Proud Owner of: ] Posts: 353 | Registered: Monday, January 9 2006 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4445
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 17:53
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quote:In the Christian canon, God surrendered his omnipotence upon the creation of humanity. The entire idea is that God wanted humanity to love God and be happy of its own accord. I don't find the rampant parent-child relationship analogies very pertinent, because it vexes parents to no end that immature children have free wills, and they do everything they can to correct that particular vexation. As to the real thrust of your point, the assertion that an omnipotent God permitting suffering is morally bankrupt, I will offer a semi-mathematical rebuttal. Assuming a metaphysical component to humanity which survives physical existence into eternity, the ratio of physical suffering to whatever happens post-physical-existence is necessarily infintessimal. Now, that's not a reason to believe, but I think it is a logical way of seeing the situation that at least moves the concept of God above the level of scorn. quote:I hold that the core human impulse behind religion is an innate desire to rationalize an innate desire to be good to one another. People use it to explain fear-inducing natural phenomena, as the contempuous scientists and logicians will have you know, and the chic 'net-liberals on this board would be right to say that many people simply want to be smug in their self-righteousness. Still, is it so horrible to believe that we were created so that we might learn to love one another (or "act for the benefit of one another," whichever you prefer) in our time on Earth? Furthermore, is it not more just to believe that there will be a time free of suffering when loving like we've learned to will truly make us happy? (And, conversely, when those without a deep and abiding respect for humanity as a whole will be miserable?) That's why I've come to believe in a Christian God, despite being a math/science type of guy. For the universe to be just, the people that live their lives for others and get crap in return need to be rewarded. Posts: 293 | Registered: Saturday, May 29 2004 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 17:59
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quote:What's the difference? [ Sunday, February 19, 2006 17:59: Message edited by: Ash Lael ] -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 18:08
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quote:Correct free will? What do you want, automaton clones? Our unique passion, drive, capacity, and mind is what makes us so wonderful as human beings. Learning boundaries and following rules like not crossing the street alone is for the protection of the child, not to exorcise it of the wickedness of having a will of its own. -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 18:41
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quote:Well, you've caught me in a bit of an exaggeration there, but I still think that God's creation of human beings as something that wouldn't necessarily have to obey him is just too different for the analogy to hold. [ Sunday, February 19, 2006 18:46: Message edited by: PoD person ] Posts: 293 | Registered: Saturday, May 29 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 18:45
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quote:Why do I think so many people are in torment right here right now? Because some people get it into their heads that they're so much better than everyone else that they get to rule supreme, and then the idiots act on that idea. God's got nothing to do with it... people caused the suffering that most of the world goes through today, and another god figure in our lives will not save us. Seriously, how much good can it do to restore our spiritual relationships if we forget to fix the human ones?! quote:This assumes a lot. And if there's no afterlife? Besides, that's still fear-mongering in the sense that our actions in a brief existence on earth will decide our soul's eternal fate. quote:Okay, this assumes we were created. I prefer to believe that we evolved with the sure social knowledge that cooperation was required for survival. Once survival became less of a priority, people were able to be selfish fools without destroying (much) of the species at large, though some held on to the idea that trying to make life better for each other is a worthwhile cause. So I think it's there in everyone's mind, independent of religion. And I just don't get the "time free of suffering" bit. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6689
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 19:03
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My belief remains that organized religion is too destructive. It's too easy to manipulate the masses to do your EVIL BIDDING. I believe in trees and having fun until the so-black-and-nothinglike-it's-not-even-black-or-nothing feeling of death arrives. I also believe in love and goodness. And righteousness to the extent that I say it when surfing or canoing down rapids. -------------------- --Dachnaz Posts: 50 | Registered: Saturday, January 14 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 19:13
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quote:If all available evidence points to the universe being unjust, it seems simpler to conclude that the universe is in fact unjust than to postulate a reason why it's not. [ Sunday, February 19, 2006 19:14: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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BANNED
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 19:14
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quote:CHAUVINISM IS NOT CONVENIENT; IT IS ALIENATORY. STOP CALLING YOUR DEITY MALE IMMEDIATELY OR NEXT TIME I WILL NOT GRATIFY YOU WITH A RESPONSE. quote:See, here's a problem I've had with archetypal thought from the get-go. All of the truths that are supposedly meta-physical (the mere notion of which I am against on a fundamental basis) can and must be proven in the realm of the physical, or else you open the door to Plato or Leibniz or any number of nonsensical notions. Furthermore, that I offered a proof of empathy from an atheist perspective and yet you insist that empathy comes from your god only proves how further-distanced your notion of empathy is from the humans who practice it. quote:GOD IS NOT A FATHER. And so you admit to contradicting yourself (and subsequently falling into the harms of my initial tirade). Okay. quote:I wasn't going to ask you to explain it. quote:1. I still don't know what "privelege" (which I believe you previously called "authority") is. 2. So what if god is a family? You're still implying that god is a parent figure that is above us. No, nevermind- you already admitted to that much. quote:Har-de-har. If you wanted to describe weight-lifting, Mr. Derrida, you could have chosen a great deal of less vague methods to do so. quote:I was going to make a point that this is promoting individual achievement as the ultimate achievement, which devalues people coming together. Then, I was going to say that the way that you describe this is alienatory towards the wrong-doers and cannot help but fuel division. After that, I deigned to tackle it from the position of using mythological rhetoric whose only bi-product is hate and ignorance. But at long last, I decided that my time would best be spent in declaring this metaphysical bullocks and being done with it. quote:Wow! Thanks for telling me the definition of the words I use. Greatly appreciated. quote:And why does this have to be "training?" It's as if all of your rhetoric exists to draw unspoken conclusions that all of this is personal, isolated and ultimately serves to bolster the self, and cannot be achieved easily. You are defeatist and alienatory; I'll take your points seriously when you can say "when people know the truth" and be done with it. quote:1. Your examples are self-glorification, extreme money-making and dying for abstract causes. Pardon me while I wretch in disgust. 2. I do not know what "training shows us approved" could possibly mean. Approved by god? Approved by ourselves? Or am I merely supposed to fill in the blanks with whatever feels good? And, I guess, my biggest point that I can draw out: 3. You seem dead-set on the notion that there is inherent good in "finding the way" and that simply being at the end of the "way" is somehow impossible. Your idea of discerning enlightenment is backwards: Obviously, nobody is born with all of life's answers, but the goal is being enlightened, not the means by which we become enlightened. It is good to become more enlightened, but all points at which a person knows less truth are bad because the person knows less truth. So far, all of your ugly and malformed arguments about discernment have existed to support your metaphysical viewpoint of god-as-parent. Not all of existence has to have any meaning greater than the truth inherent in the physicality of existence. quote:SPIT ON FIRE. My question this whole bloody freaking time has been "why BELIEVE in a god?" and now you're telling me that it really isn't relevant at all? AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH quote:This is why I absolutely, flat-out hate christianity- its believers set themselves apart on the basis that they have a superior set of experience than non-adherents! Or are you saying that you can "know god" without believing in it? In that case, I DIRECT YOU TO THE FIRST FREAKING POST THAT SET OFF THIS DEBATE. quote:So you're saying that we can't do good until we do god's good? Again. FIRST POST. quote:Obviously. quote:I guess atheists are disowned cousins then, hunh? quote:Based on the nature of your god, I'd much rather remain decapitated. quote:Way to say absolutely nothing. Bonus points for the emotional porno-show. quote:Which is a particularly back-handed way of saying: "Join God, He who Hath a Penis, Lest Ye be Wrong" Or in other words- Your whole ideology revolves around the idea that humanity is eternally wrong. Regardless of whether or not this is TRUE, it sets up an attitude of defeatism and grants its believers an insane amount of egoism. quote:YES. Either I work for 'em or I get 'em for free. In both instances, the same outcome is received- I've got it. quote:Read as: God hasn't given ended disease because then we'd use our good health. Work will not end- at least, it won't end anytime soon. Regardless, it would be infinitely better if it did. Working does not have any positive value. quote:Quoted for metaphysical nonsense. quote:This is a contradiction- there is no punishment that isn't capricious. Deterrence is almost as bad. quote:So that's an excuse for this world to suck? quote:You're a sheep. quote:That's what I meant too! When I was criticizing you! quote:This says nothing. quote:This is a hollow rationalization. quote:Oh really? quote:WHAT? Aren't you the one whose point this whole time was that we're self-centered children? quote:I hope not. quote:No more than dealing with this crap. quote:If god has the power, why not use it NOW? Or is it too immature to want problems to be solved? This is defeatist nonsense and rationalizations for a worldview whose ultimate moral is that us getting screwed is somehow "okay." Stop pandering into the status quo! quote:This says nothing. ... Just a question. Are you saying that god hasn't solved the world's problems because we aren't "mature" enough? The problems in the world are what make us (including YOU) "immature" and make us not believe in a god that, should it exist, has clearly abandoned us all! I'm a bit outraged. Next time you post, let me know if I've been shat upon before I go the whole way through it first. quote:So god gives us the capacity to be miserable and die so we can stroke its ego? PS- GOD IS NOT A MAN. GOD DOES NOT HAVE MALE GENETALIA. GOD DOES NOT HAVE REPRODUCTIVE CELLS, AND EVEN IF IT DID, THERE IS NO INDICATOR AS TO THEIR MOBILITY. THIS APPLIES TO YOU TOO. GOD IS NOT MALE. quote:Heh. I don't know if you're arguing against synergy, but if so, good job. quote:And I will offer wholly-mathematical disgust. quote:Way to rationalize from the get-go. quote:So now you too are admitting that you can't answer my original question. quote:Because, you know, people can't ever just accept something that they feel- physical reality isn't nearly as logical as metaphysical reality, after all. quote:"Contempuous [sic]" scientists and logicians... Always looking for that pesky truth, hunh? I don't know if wanting to be smug in self-righteousness is the ultimate goal of religion across the board, but I've certainly seen an undeniable proportion of religious people follow religion for just such a reason. quote:I don't think that's so horrible. I just don't see why religion or a "higher force" is needed for that- that is essentially my problem with religion. quote:I'd like that to be right now, thankyouverymuch. Furthermore, saying that such a time will exist post-mortem is a great justification for slavery, capitalism, genocide, et al. quote:So your religion wishes misery on people. How pleasant. quote:...hunh? How'd we get from arguing for a benevolent god in general to the christian god? quote:...there is no need to compliment yourself. quote:So wait- you're rationalizing why the universe is just rather than making it that way? quote:Think implies any sort of thought process. You'll have to convince me of that first. [ Sunday, February 19, 2006 22:47: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 19:16
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quote:Well, the first quote. Taken with the rest, I'm not really fear-mongering, although, granted, I'm assuming an afterlife. The idea is that time on Earth allows experimentation and learning through free will. I'm not altogether convinced that things are set in stone from there. "The idea that trying to make life better for each other is a worthwhile cause" is also what I advanced as a large cause of religion. As people were "able to be selfish fools without destroying (much) the society at large" religion is what grew up to exert pressure on that contingent. Perhaps my belief stems from the feeling that people get cancer, people get in freak accidents, and people fall prey to their own kind, regardless of how harmful or beneficial they've been to society, and it's a darn shame if all the good they did was for nothing. I've also not been sufficiently clear about what I mean by afterlife. I posit a condition in which consciousness is detached from physical reality (a fairly inescaple element of any afterlife-idea). Without worldly pleasures, I imagine those who love and glory in their fellows, and the total essence of it all that we call "God" will be quite a bit happier than those with contempt and hatred for the world. Purely a psychological heaven, hell, or shade of gray - no fire, milk, brimstone, or honey here. Basically, the purity of your intent while on Earth will determine your ultimate happiness, not the slick November roads, the caprices of your own biology, not geopolitics, not someone's desire for your life-insurance policy or to cut costs or for cheap labor. My scenario is simply the most just one I can think of, and thus the one in which I choose to believe. TM Even with pure social justice, there would still be that pesky Entropy, always spiraling towards our inevitable doom. Physical existence is inherently unjust. Pain exists. If all people were to drop religion and capitalism in its tracks, pain would still exist. People would stub their toes. People would strain muscles during over-enthusiastic coitus. People would be crushed by machinery. People would get sick. Regardless of their worth as human beings. In an absurdly unjust, and unchangable, physical situation, why not believe in metaphysics. God as a sentient entity isn't quite necessary as part of a just metaphysical existence, but a concept of good, independent of human consciousness, is. I suppose the sentient God as explanation of free will just tickles my particular intellectual fancy (you needn't respond to that last sentence). [ Sunday, February 19, 2006 19:34: Message edited by: PoD person ] Posts: 293 | Registered: Saturday, May 29 2004 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 19:20
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I think this merits its own post. IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT THE MASCULINE PRONOUN IS USED IN SITUATIONS WHERE THE GENDER OF THE ANTECEDENT IS NEUTRAL. I TRIED, BUT IDIOM SNUCK UP ON ME. SO SUE ME. [ Sunday, February 19, 2006 19:49: Message edited by: PoD person ] Posts: 293 | Registered: Saturday, May 29 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 19:37
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quote:I fail to see the application of said pressure... anywhere. But in my eyes, it's like overuse of antibiotics... after so long of an exposure to religion, we're left with selfish fools who are completely resistant to the good messages a religion may contain. This includes televangelists. quote:For nothing?!?! Of course it's not for nothing! The good that a person does should outlive them, or it wasn't any good at all! (Did the reforms of the civil rights movement disappear after King died? I think not!) Pardon that outburst. quote:This just kind of confused me even more. I want to understand it, but I can't quite get it. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 19:44
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quote:"I wish to propose for the reader’s favourable consideration a doctrine which may, I fear, appear wildly paradoxical and subversive. The doctrine in question is this: that it is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true." -- Bertrand Russell P.S.: Edit your second post back in. TM won't mind. [ Sunday, February 19, 2006 19:46: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 19:47
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EDIT: To Ephesos You're right. Pretentious it is. Let me try to say this in some sort of organized form. I believe in an afterlife. A consciousness exists without a body in this afterlife. Without the physical rewards of selfishly taking advantage of other humans, one can only take pleasure from the existence of one's own kind. If you love others, you'll be happy. If you don't, then you won't. If you care about people that way, your life on Earth will show it. Well, you may only not see religion putting pressure on people to behave less selfishly because you don't attend regular services. Sure, televangelists like to fuel persecution delusions and harangue the sinners, but the sermons at my Catholic church are hardly ever in that vein. Usually they're about being there for someone in pain, or exhortations to seek greater social justice. Plus, the money that they take from us every Sunday is almost always for a worthy cause of some sort, and they've got quite the infrastructure. Really, I find it even more pronounced in situations where it's harder not to be selfish. In American inner cities, it's almost always the local protestant church that's most active in trying to keep children away from drugs, gangs, etc. You know the religion of the media and American politics, but day-to-day, it's a much more positive thing. I imagine my experience with Christianity translates to Islam, too. And my "for nothing" comment was more about the would-be Martin Luther Kings that had all the aching desire for a better life and none of the rhetorical skills, infrastructure, or good luck to make the same impact. You can work just as hard, with just the same intent, and make no impact at all. [ Sunday, February 19, 2006 20:02: Message edited by: PoD person ] Posts: 293 | Registered: Saturday, May 29 2004 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 19:53
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Do you in fact have any reason to believe in an afterlife beyond the fact that you find it most comfortable to do so? If you don't, that's fine; you don't seem to be out to convince anyone of anything anyway. I'm just curious. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 20:08
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An objective reason? No. Guess not. I think it'd be considerably less statisfying if there was, too. Well, in so far as that I try to convince people that Chris Cornell is simply the best rock vocalist ever to walk this Earth, yes (de gustibus dico veritatem), but otherwise, not really. There's no verifiable answer, so I can't very well act like I know one, now can I? Besides, religion seems to lack cautious apologists on the 'net. I always feel a duty to throw my hat into these rings. It's the one time when it isn't simply preferable to lurk. EDIT: I see your questions, and I raise you one. You saw my second post, and responded rather quickly to my others. Is it part of your moderatorial strategy to sit there looking at the religion topic in which TM has taken an interest and hitting refresh? If so, the elections found the right man. Smart policy. [ Sunday, February 19, 2006 20:25: Message edited by: PoD person ] Posts: 293 | Registered: Saturday, May 29 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 20:59
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Um... whoa. I'm glad I missed all of this... Too much chaos is still chaos. quote:Religion seems to lack cautious apologists outside of certain closed academic cirles, let alone on the net... A lone amateur apologetic would like to offer his services, should someone specifically ask for them. But he's not addressing this mess at large. ick. -------------------- The Silent Assassin has warned me that I'm getting in over my head. Yeah, probably. -------------------- -Lenar Labs What's Your Destiny? Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable. All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure. Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 21:10
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quote:Well, TM does have to be watched carefully in topics like this (although if we went around censoring everything questionable that he said, we'd be up all night watching the forums and his posts would be rendered mostly unreadable), but mostly my interest in the topic is personal. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Councilor
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 21:13
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Originally by Lenar Labs: quote:Well, if the debate over the merits of TM's and Kelandon's scenarios is enough to endanger the poor, fluffy kittens, this debate is more than enough to endanger every feline in existence and start endangering the canines too. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 22:16
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Synergy: You keep saying "God is" "God is" and "God is." I wish you would remember that you are talking about something disputed. According to your perception (or whatever you want to call it), that's what God is. But saying "God is" without any qualifiers is ridiculous, unless you want to claim that your knowledge of the universe is inherently superior to mine or anyone else's -- a claim which will surely make me stop paying attention to you. You said above "We’re impatient and unaware of many things out of our sight and knowing." Surely you understand that this applies to you, too. (Synergy) quote:I am sick and tired of seeing these comments from everyone. For many, arguably most little children, that is NOT what existence is like AT ALL. Some children learn that their parents will provide everything they need and protect them from all harm. But there are plenty who learn otherwise, who receive a certain degree of nurturing and protection, and a certain degree of trauma and inadequate care. quote:That smells like a very defensive self-world construct to me. Incidentally, since Kel hasn't pointed it out yet, decapitation refers solely to beheading, not to any limbs being severed. The misuse only makes me laugh more at TM's line, but I thought I'd mention it. (TM) quote:I don't think you can back that one up. You can make arguments that it has solely practical value, which would be irrelevant or redundant in an abstract, ideal situation. But working has value simply based on our biological makeup (production of endorphins comes to mind). Biologically, we are put together to be able to do work. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |