Ideas Refreshment
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, February 28 2006 14:47
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Lord of the Rings also breaks the RPG mold. Except it's not an RPG. —Alorael, who is sure someone has turned it into an RPG against all reason. No, the stock fantasy setting isn't really LotR. Neither is Angband. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, February 28 2006 14:56
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Yes, and Geneforge breaks the FPS mold. Point being? ..actually, playing as an Agent is rather similar, sometimes... -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, February 28 2006 16:40
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quote:—Alorael, who should have quoted that above his previous post. Alas, the quote pyramid was never meant to be. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Tuesday, February 28 2006 16:58
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'twas Zeviz who falsely included those scenarios in the RPG genre, not I. :P Seriously, there's genre and style, and these things are fine to duplicate. But when the story itself mechanically functions in the same way, I think that's a problem. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, February 28 2006 21:07
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quote:I am aware of at least two RPGs that go by the name of "Lord of the Rings", one released several years before the movies and the other shortly after. I have heard that neither is much good. EDIT: A quick search reveals that there are in fact many different LotR RPGs. I am willing to bet that none are much good. [ Tuesday, February 28, 2006 21:10: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, February 28 2006 21:49
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For a brief time in August 2001, I contemplated making a LotR-based BoE scenario. I got as far as about 20 pages of handwritten notes before I realized this would suck horrendously. ... I think I can still find the notes if I look for them. Anyone interested? :P [ Wednesday, March 01, 2006 03:27: Message edited by: Left Outer Join ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6821
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written Wednesday, March 1 2006 00:47
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I guess I just never thought that Gf1, 2 and 3 had the same plot. And technically, they don't. I don't like the 'just look at the big picture' thing too much, because as I said, most of the things that don't change are kinda part of the GF world. After all, what are RPGs about? Look at the big picture : There is a problem, and you are an adventurer who wants to solve it (or make it worse), usually killing bada** villains on your way. And solving minor problems while you're at it. Kinda boring, eh? :rolleyes: And seriously, what are you expecting? Geneforge 5 : Trajkov Learns How To Dance? :cool: Posts: 363 | Registered: Wednesday, February 22 2006 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
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written Wednesday, March 1 2006 01:20
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quote:In all fairness, that would be better than the previous three plots. -------------------- ??? ?????? ???? ????? Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Wednesday, March 1 2006 01:23
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Indeed it would. It should also come with support for a Dance Dance Revolution pad. ... Okay, what the hell was I just thinking? o_O -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, March 1 2006 02:35
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quote:Well, no. The things that don't change are all part of one rather narrow view of the GF world, from the perspective of a member of a highly privileged class within it. Really, making the protagonist a shaper apprentice for 3 games in a row was Jeff's biggest mistake -- it means that we've only seen the GF world from one perspective. It's good to hear that the protagonist of GF4 will be a non-Shaper; one can only hope that this is used to good effect. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
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written Wednesday, March 1 2006 02:41
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quote:One can hope, but one probably won't get what one hopes for in this case, with Jeff behind the wheel. -------------------- ??? ?????? ???? ????? Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Wednesday, March 1 2006 03:45
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When a game series is your livelihood, you don't fix too many things that ain't broke all at the same time. If you try to take big steps, you risk alienating an existing customer base, at worst, or delaying production of the next installment, at least. That's fine if it's your hobby, not good if it's your job. In common courtesy, people, I think we should remember factors like these before casually disparaging the guy. The Geneforge games progress and develop in quite a few interesting ways. That they don't make radical shifts is just one of the genre constraints in profitable shareware. If anyone with enough technical skill to put out games like these every year wants to do it for art's sake alone, re-inventing the wheel with each edition: fill your boots. I'll be happy to pay for my copies, and sing their praises on your message boards. Just don't expect me to pay your whole mortgage. EDIT: Corrected misspelling of 'broke' as 'broken'. [ Wednesday, March 01, 2006 03:47: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ] -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, March 1 2006 04:01
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See, I do try to be forgiving, but when Jeff's made three of his games twice and one of his games three times, one can't help but hope for something original. And when that hope seems almost unanimous on these forums, it's hard to see how catering to it would hurt Jeff's sales. (Sure, there are all those players who are, er, "not exactly the forumgoing type", but I doubt they care about plot one way or the other anyway.) Okay, so if you want, you can dismiss me as just another cranky old Exile player who's bitter about the fact that the Avernum series exists at all. I'd hope you'd give me a little more credit than that, though. [ Wednesday, March 01, 2006 04:09: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Wednesday, March 1 2006 04:21
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quote:Indeed, but coming up with a good plot is more effort, so if the customers don't care either way, he might just as well make it suck. Except that those people who really don't care about plot ought to care about graphics instead, and there's not much of that in SW games... -- But then, how do we explain the, uh, attention-span-challenged newbies that arrive whenever a new game is released? Surely there is something about these games that attracts them, and it is neither quality of plot nor of graphics. -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6632
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written Wednesday, March 1 2006 05:38
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quote:Only people who post on the forums care about the plot? That's crazy talk. Posts: 50 | Registered: Monday, January 2 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, March 1 2006 15:33
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I was actually using "not exactly the forumgoing type" as a polite euphemism for "8-year-olds who only care about killing stuff". So much for politeness. Anyway, my main point is that I don't think there are many people who actively want the plot of the GF series to stagnate. I'm also not convinced that it'd be any extra work for him to write more original plots. Ideas don't take that long to think up. [ Wednesday, March 01, 2006 15:38: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Wednesday, March 1 2006 16:40
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quote:The thing is that Jeff did come up with a new plot every time until he started making Avernums. Exile 2 was very different from Exile 1. It was even a slightly different style of RPG (more plot driven, rather than completely free-exploration) Exile 3 was once again a new type of game (mystery with a combination of some plot and much free exploration). When he was making Exile series, Jeff's livelihood already depended on these games, but it didn't stop him from boldly experimenting and making completely new things like Nethergate. The reason using same story over and over doesn't work for Spidweb games is that people play them for the story. If I cared about graphics, I'd play one of the big-budget games that require a new computer. If I cared only about gameplay, I'd play Civilization, MoM, etc. (That's what I am doing now.) The reason I played Spidweb games was for a good story told in a well-created world with engaging gameplay. When the story element is missing, the games are no longer with playing. Geneforge 3 was the first game I ever bought and didn't finish. (I buy very few games and normally buy only ones I know I'll enjoy for a long time.) -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6821
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 01:42
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I certainly don't want the plot of the Geneforge series to stagnate. In fact, I'm looking forward to blasting the Shaper Council to bits. I hope the player will be able to do that in Gf4. I don't think the plot has stagnated all that much so far, but I'm glad the player will be able to play a non-shaper being in Geneforge 4. Posts: 363 | Registered: Wednesday, February 22 2006 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 04:37
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quote:I certainly don't want republicans to become conservative. quote:Because in Exile 2, you knew exactly who made the barriers and the gameplay was linear like a BoX scenario. (And I guess you can argue that E3's plot is "unique" in some ways, but that hardly makes it any GOOD.) quote:Avernum 4 is a decent enough counter-argument to this point. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 05:23
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quote:"Stagnate" need not imply a change. I'd take it as "The GF series should stop being stagnant". -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6821
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 05:58
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quote:Stagnant : not moving or developing, dull and inactive. My sentence meant "I wouldn't like it if the plot of the GF series were to be stagnant" (rather than 'stop being stagnant', because as I said, I don't think it has 'stagnated' all that much so far. I do think that I will be quite upset if the Taker/Shaper war does not end in Gf4, however). Posts: 363 | Registered: Wednesday, February 22 2006 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 06:48
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quote:I'm not sure I have any hope on that front. Given how overpowered the powers in the war have become, it would take a plot twist of pretty gigantic magnitude to end it. Like end of Nethergate gigantic (ok, that wasn't a twist, but you get the idea). That doesn't seem likely. The war is a problem, though. One of the reasons that the huge Empire-Avernum War worked so well in E/A is that it only lasted for one game. It was huge, it was detailed, but it did not drag on and on like a carcass hanging from a speeding chariot. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 07:52
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While I know very little about the Shapers or the Takers, I think the same solution can be used as in E2/A2: if the game begins right in the middle of the war, the whole game can be devoted to ending it. —Alorael, who has gotten the impression that the causes are already obvious and the lines have been drawn. A beginning at this point could just be delivered by a few pieces of dialogue and some books. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 11:18
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The war between Shapers and Rebels has clearly started by G3. It's now time to finish it. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Too Sexy for my Title
Member # 5654
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 11:27
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quote:This reminds me, does that mean we finally get new character graphics for G4? I hope so, I'm tired of picking within the same three Characters, which all have different stats. Btw, isn't it weird how JV made "Esther" look so mainly and ew, while "Cordelia"......... well if you were in the chat last night, you know what I'm talking about. And if we are getting new graphics as servile, then I hope he improve the servile graphics cuz well they suck. Posts: 1035 | Registered: Friday, April 1 2005 08:00 |