Our President
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Monday, August 15 2005 04:13
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I am not sure you can name god as being male or female. In Judaism, you are not supposed to even say the name of god because it would limit the concept. God appears as a burning bush and various other things. Being a supreme power and not limited it is very hard to truly grasp the "logos" or central idea of god being omnipotent -- because of our limited senses god has to appear as something which we can identify with. Jesus was begotten by god according to the new testament that means god decided to make Mary pregnant and she became pregnant through the thoughts of god or something like that. Therefore he is gods son-- a way to see god in the flesh. He is not unnamable and omnipotent, but a physical manifestation of the deity. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Monday, August 15 2005 09:11
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quote:I'd imagine that the material becomes quite visible once you have attained your spiritual body and gained access to heaven. It's just invisible to those trapped within the universe. -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Monday, August 15 2005 09:24
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Translucent != Invisible Anyway, my original point/question still half-seriously stands, Benny Boy. Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Monday, August 15 2005 09:30
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Ooh, neat, thanks for my next moniker, Drew. ;) -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3364
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 06:13
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When this topic started I made a point not to even look at it, knowing exactly what I'd find when I opened it anyway. After eight pages I finally caved but I couldn't make it past the third page so I will answer the topic question which is already widely known. 1. I like the president. We have the same opinion on the things I find most important. I sometimes wish he was a better speaker, but I guess not all can be charaismatic. 2. I support the war in Iraq, though I am very dissapointed at how it was carried out. The lack of planning sickens me. There were no WMD's, and there were many lies told about them, but anyone who states 'Bush lied' must also add 'Bush was lied to' if they want to do anything close to representing the truth themselves. Bush, made his decisions and speeches on lies that he believed to be true. Oh and this statement: quote:made me laugh really, really hard. -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 07:12
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Why? What is untrue about that statement? The administration has fired experienced generals (Shinseki) who disagreed with their approach to the war, and has done their best to discredit those who tried to expose the "untruth" of their nuclear rationale (the Valerie Plame incident), all for the sake of pushing their agenda forward. If that isn't groupthink (the act of surrounding one's self with likeminded individuals and discouraging dissent), and if the gross failure of this war so far doesn't represent incompetence, then I don't know that those words mean anything. Frankly, I don't think it's a laughing matter at all. If Bush was lied to, it's because he wasn't interested in the truth. The truth in this entire matter was far and away too evident, even prior to the war for those with proper clearances. As a side note, maybe we should all watch "Bridge Over the River Kwai" again to gain some perspective on what inappropriate treatment of prisoners is. Who are the monsters now? We are. Know that your laughter flies in the face of the families of everyone who has died because this war wasn't planned better (misappropriation of contractor funds anyone? The lack of body armor that could have prevented troops from getting killed? Sufficient forces? Hello?) or incorporated the ideas and intelligence of all the government's experienced resources. Of course, had that been the case, the war likely wouldn't have happened, because it was a COLLOSALLY BAD IDEA. EDIT: Grrr!!! This has made me so angry. I really, really hope, Gizmo, that you have some sort of explanation for your remark. [ Tuesday, August 16, 2005 10:53: Message edited by: Drew ] Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 08:44
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quote:Hmm. I don't buy this. My impression is that Bush told the intelligence agencies what to find and fired anyone who didn't find that. He was given misleading information, but only because he requested misleading information. Congress was lied to, and so were the American people, but I doubt strongly that Bush was completely innocent with regard to the false information that was turned up. I mean, what kind of president makes people want to lie to him? EDIT: But, you know, water under the bridge at this point.... [ Tuesday, August 16, 2005 08:45: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 08:47
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Furthermore, if he was lied to, then why is he protecting the people who lied to him? Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 09:05
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I think that everyone that cares has already made up their minds on that point Drew. Some people will always stick with the President, some always with a Democrat, some always with a Republican. That's just the way it is. What kills me is that the Democratic party still thinks it can change minds by exposing the truth. As mentioned by Jack, most people can't handle the truth. What the current administration has done very successfully is distract people (read the less political folks) from the uncomfortable government (in/)actions and point ferociously in the other direction. Case in point, gasoline prices are up $.97 from a year ago, so the DoE responds with "Wow, that's quite a bit, but when you adjust for inflation it is less than during the embargo." See? Despite the fact that OPEC is pumping at an all-time high, we are supposed to feel good that we are actually paying less now than 30 years ago. Warm fuzzies. So, rather than react in a negative fashion to someone feeling positively about the current admin, it may be more constructive to create positive feelings about the oppositions point of view. Not trying to crash your party or anything, but I am so frustrated with the success that the current admin has had in polarizing the population. I've yet to hear one Democrat offer up a solution for getting the troops out of Iraq, given the requirements of the admin. Why isn't Kerry over in Iraq working hand in hand with the new Iraqi government? Grrr. Enough ranting for now, but needed to convey that Jewel is entitled to feeling as she does, and I wish only that the actions of the admin allowed more people to feel that way. *this message should be sponsored by the democratic party* Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 09:34
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quote:"The Truth" was name of the main official newspaper in USSR. This makes me very skeptical of anybody who tries to convince me that they know "the truth". As for the president "being lied to", first what kind of president would be decieved by his own intelligence services? Second, if that was the case, why aren't people who lied to the president to get our country into a war in prison? [ Tuesday, August 16, 2005 09:38: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 10:46
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The truth doesn't sell well because the truth is unpleasant. Unfortunately, the Democratic (I would say Realist) outlook is very unpleasant, and the only solutions call for sacrifice. The problem as I see it is that no one is going to elect any bearer of bad news and so take the foul-tasting (but necessary) medicine so long as there are politicians willing to defy realities and continue to get away with borrowing and spending (the current administration). The long term enlightened self-interest just isn't as sexy as the now-now-NOW (tax cuts AND war spending). The same rationale is behind why everyone is up to their arse in credit debt, and the outcome is going to be the same for the debtors and the nation: we're all going to have to pay sometime in the future. Fortunately for Bush, it probably won't be on his "watch." EDIT: Salmon, I would also point out that my anger was directed at Gizmo for laughing at my assertion about the groupthink and incompetence of the administration's war plan, which has resulted so far in the needless deaths of over 1800 US soldiers and God knows how many Iraqis. I found her reaction to be incredibly callous, especially in light of her own admission that the war hasn't been carried out well. EDIT 2: To Ash... quote:Please see the rest of my statement for the context. Seperation of Church and State as a principle has pretty much been firmed up in subsequent Supreme Court cases and other lower court findings, both of which establish the Common Law. [ Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:22: Message edited by: Drew ] Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 14:54
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Not sure what the point is in bringing up a post I made nearly two weeks ago, but whatever. I don't believe that I was quoting you out of context. I was simply being pedantic - Dolphin claimed that Seperation of Church and State was in the constitution, and I pointed out that her statement wasn't technically accurate. [ Tuesday, August 16, 2005 14:54: Message edited by: Ash Lael ] -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 15:15
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Groupthink is the status quo. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Many presidents and other heads of state (or corporations) surround themselves with like-minded people. The Bay of Pigs fiasco is an example of groupthink as well, and it was only after this was revealed that things changed (in the decision making process) and the next decision turned out to be a little more creative (ie. no nuclear exchange.) I agree it is frustrating that people can't be made to realize that our opinions are correct, but that is a frustration shared by everyone. It may have been a little harsh to laugh, but so be it. If the admin turns out to be right we all breathe a sigh of relief that things turned out better. If they turn out to be wrong, then the naysayers better get their collective arse in gear and do something to fix the problems. In the meantime, it sure is nice that we have something to agree upon, which is that the entrance requirement for these forums is so liberating. *this message sponsored by the head turtle* Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3364
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 18:42
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See, this is what happens when you speed read through a very deep and thoughtful discussion trying to cram it all in, in the shortest amount of time possible. :eek: The reason I found it funny was because I skimmed too fast to comprehend it's real meaning. I thought you were telling Ben his comments smacked of groupthink and incompetence when in fact his views stand out as odd to the majority of this board. (I confess, even I find him odd at times) So I appologise for my hasty reply and complete ignorance. I'm a bit distracted these days... I am a bit surprised, though, to find that so many now credit W. with enough smarts to pull off decieving the entire nation and (so far) getting away with it when just before the elections he was the dumbest country bumpkin that ever stepped foot into the big city. But I guess when 'the truth' must be found, every angle must be played. And when I say 'the truth' I mean 'anything that will hurt the Bush administration and hopefully get him kicked out of office'. The ABB is alive and well. -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 20:10
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I notice Cindy Sheehan hasn't been mentioned yet here. Thoughts? -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6068
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 20:24
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"She doesn't speak for me!" ha-ha! Or, even better, "She's not MY president!" -------------------- "Sometimes I get all hungry! And then I catch some flies! They fly into my webs! They are really yummy guys!" -Spider Posts: 209 | Registered: Monday, July 4 2005 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, August 16 2005 21:17
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quote:You've mixed up two things here. I said Bush lied to the American people. That's quite different from successfully convincing them of the lie (deceiving them). There have been many, both in the Democratic party (Howard Dean) and outside it (Ralph Nader), who have been opposed to the war throughout, and I bet that some of them have been saying this stuff the whole time. Any idiot can lie. Only the smart ones can get away with it. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Wednesday, August 17 2005 05:17
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Personally, I'm not a big fan of Cindy Sheehan. Bush can't afford to waste time meeting with every wackjob protester. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Wednesday, August 17 2005 05:40
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quote:She didn't run. And while the (ir)rationality of her request can be argued about, personally I think the US would be better off if she were. President, that is. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3364
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written Wednesday, August 17 2005 07:10
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quote:Well, he 'decieved' enough of us to go to war in the first place, I think because he sincerely believed that Sadam had WMD's. The Clinton administration believed that Sadam had WMD's they just didn't do anything about it. You want to argue that the lie began in Bush Sr.'s term I won't refute it. I was too young to pay attention or care about politics at the time, but it wasn't Jr.'s idea and I hold that he believed it to be true just as Clinton did. A few quotes from before Jr. was ever President. (The last was just a few days after the election but I don't remember if Jr. was official yet because of the recounts. I don't think he was.) quote: quote:I swear, I'd never get any news if I didn't read the boards. I think Bush should talk to her, after his vacation. (Five weeks? That's a very long vacation... is that normal for a President?) They should schedlue an appointment with her for when he's available and at the office. It would have been better (for his image) if he gave her time right away, but I know how frustrating it can be when people start asking you to do things for work when you're supposed to be on vacation. Allow too much and it can feel like you didn't have any vacation at all. [ Wednesday, August 17, 2005 07:46: Message edited by: The Ghost of Jewels ] -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6068
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written Wednesday, August 17 2005 12:55
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[QUOTE]She didn't run.QUOTE] I know. I was just responding to all the people in America who say "Bush isn't MY president! (because of the fact that I don't like him and didn't vote for him)" -------------------- "Sometimes I get all hungry! And then I catch some flies! They fly into my webs! They are really yummy guys!" -Spider Posts: 209 | Registered: Monday, July 4 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Wednesday, August 17 2005 22:33
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I am aware and I was pointing out what a silly joke it was. quote:At least for this president... [ Wednesday, August 17, 2005 22:34: Message edited by: Aranfoolcaytar ] -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3364
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written Thursday, August 18 2005 05:32
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I wonder how many of those 'part days' were actually more work then play? It's not that hard to put in a full day's work then catch a plane when you're done, or catch an early plane to be back in time to start work at noon then stay late to catch up. Plus they only count the days he spends at the ranch or en route, how many of those days were on the weekend (Saturday, Sunday)? Maybe he just likes to go home for the weekend, not that he's ever off duty, but regular weekends should be at least seperated in the count. I'd also like to see how many weekends various presidents put in full days of work. Gotta have all the stats in order to be unbiased. -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Thursday, August 18 2005 06:17
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Aren't you just splitting hairs there? Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4214
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written Thursday, August 18 2005 07:00
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quote:I wonder how many of those 'full days' were actually more play than work?. Posts: 356 | Registered: Tuesday, April 6 2004 07:00 |