How do you perceive what you imagine?
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Warrior
Member # 3804
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 16:34
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How do you perceive what you imagine? Some time ago i had this thought and discussed it with my friends, and when it came back to me i decided to put this question to you all. As i can't really see how other people imagine things, i've often thought, do you actually see images of things when you imagine them? Say for example i was imagining a boy bouncing a ball, when i close my eyes do i physically see an image of this boy? Or am i rather describing it to myself with words? After asking my friends about this most of them said that they physically saw an image when they imagined something with their eyes closed. For me though i find that i describe the image as i would see it, but don't actually sight anything. What i imagine is processed in my mind through words, as though i'm speaking the description in my mind. I do though know what it would look like since the descriptions fairly detailed. So what do you see when you imagine things with your eyes closed? Do you physically see an image? Or do you see an image or idea through words? -------------------- "This......is a TREE! What's it for?" -Exile III Posts: 75 | Registered: Saturday, December 20 2003 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1877
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 16:36
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Sometimes I think in words, sometimes I think in pictures, depends on the situation really... -------------------- 33111-CRUSADER-4849 Posts: 662 | Registered: Friday, September 13 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 16:52
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Same here. Sometimes images, sometimes words, sometimes both. I can imagine with my eyes open too. It's not like you see it the way you see things with your eyes though. You see an image with your mind, but it is an image. It's hard to explain. Also, sometimes (I've been having trouble doing this lately, but I did it a lot when I was younger) I can imagine something being in a place I am seeing with my eyes. Not a hallucination, but it's imagined onto a location. It's also hard to explain. -------------------- The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) Famous Last Words - A local pop-punk band They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3719
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 16:54
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I 'see' things, not words. I guess that's where the Mind's Eye saying came from. -------------------- Scandalous Stories, fishing,and great photos Posts: 294 | Registered: Monday, November 24 2003 08:00 |
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Skip to My Lou
Member # 40
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 17:00
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I have read a bit on the process of thought and have my own hypothesis. I read a convincing argument that thought occurs in pictures. The vast majority of people, if asked and if they thought about it, would respond that they think in pictures. An example is your living room couch. Think about your couch and describe it to yourself in detail. Did you picture in your mind an image of your couch and then from this visualization notice characteristics? Or did you just think the words, "blue", "three cushions", "creases here and here"? Most would say they summoned to mind an image and then mentally reviewed it to determine their description. However, I found this slightly flawed; what about blind people? They could not possibly think in images if they had never seen one. Thus, I believe that thought occurs though the frame of reference we most depend upon. If you really thought about you might be able to tell me how your couch felt and smelled, however, with most people, the initial image would only have been visual rather than involving other sensory perceptions. Red Book says he thinks in words, however, what does that mean? Are you visualizing text? Are you "hearing" the words? Both fit in with this. I am not entirely certain about more abstract ideas that have no physical representation. However, I am also hard pressed to find any such ideas. Love, for example, and other emotions are associated with outward responses and inner sensations of body and effects on thought process. Nervousness is associated often with a sensation in the stomach comparable to having butterflies there. Fear can include the paralyzing effects it can have on the brain and ability to think rationally. In conclusion, it seems to me that thought occurs in the only frame of reference we have, being sensory perceptions. -------------------- Take the Personality Test! INTJ 100% 75% 100% 44% Huzzah for the Masterminds! www.Keirsey.com for personality information. The Sloganizer! "Swing your Archmage Alex." Deep down, you wish you were a stick figure. Posts: 1629 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 27
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 17:16
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Reality itself, is just a perception we are given. When you die, do you phase out of reality, or do you just lose your perception of reality? If so, do we, as humans, limit our potential by false perception of reality, and if so, how can we throw these shackles off? Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 18:00
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I see pictures and almost never words. Unless the object I was viewing in my mind has words on it. :P Actually, once in a great while, if I'm reading a book right before I go to sleep, I kind of go to sleep without knowing but continue reading the book in my dreams, only to discover in the morning that what I "read" was not what the book said. Like I said, this happens rarely though, probably only 2 or 3 times so far. Has this ever happened to any of you? -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Skip to My Lou
Member # 40
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 18:11
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Yes, it is very wierd to have text in my dreams and on later reflection what I read never usually makes a lot of sense. EDIT: EEK! The post of the beast! #666! [ Sunday, November 14, 2004 18:13: Message edited by: Archmage Alex ] -------------------- Take the Personality Test! INTJ 100% 75% 100% 44% Huzzah for the Masterminds! www.Keirsey.com for personality information. The Sloganizer! "Swing your Archmage Alex." Deep down, you wish you were a stick figure. Posts: 1629 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 21:30
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When thinking, I use a semi-efficient combo of written and spoken language, visual images and concepts. I rarely realize it, self-reflection being a bit tricky after all. But I find that, depending on what I want to accomplish by thinking/imagining (sometimes I think about something useful! :eek: ), I use written language for planning texts, spoken language for any kind of conversation/debate, and images for remembering. I don't know what I remember words I have read as, but I'm fairly certain its still in written form, not spoken. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4784
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written Monday, November 15 2004 05:10
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I always think in pictures. It becomes a hastle sometimes because when I want to convey a thought I have to convert what I'm thinking into words. I often can't remember the word that would describe what I'm picturing the best, so it takes me a long time to communicate. That's the nice thing about posting... I have all the time I need to figure out what I really want to say. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End tracihedlund@charter.net[/url] TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 | Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 2775
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written Monday, November 15 2004 07:43
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Some articles on how we see things: http://www.hhmi.org/senses/a110.html http://www.theness.com/articles/believingisseeing-nejs0401.html I remember learning in school long ago that we "see" with our brains, so what we might believe to be objective and unambiguous information might really be a lot of assumptions. [ Monday, November 15, 2004 07:44: Message edited by: My Quasimodo ] -------------------- "I can't give you brains," said the Wizard of Oz to the Scarecrow, "but I can give you a diploma." - L. Frank Baum Posts: 381 | Registered: Sunday, March 16 2003 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4391
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written Monday, November 15 2004 10:29
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When I am first introduced to the idea of an object or idea I see it in pictures, but the more I come in the contact with such a thing I don't need to do this:it just happens. So, when I'm new to something with pictures, and later, I just know it. E.g. when I first learnt of smilies (ages ago) I guess I must have thought of images like :) , but now I just think, "oh yeah, a smily", just a lot faster. Posts: 14 | Registered: Sunday, May 16 2004 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 126
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written Monday, November 15 2004 12:27
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The images come first, when I'm imagining stuff, usually. Unless it's words I've read that are sparking the imagining, in which case, of course, the words come first. But once the images are good and imagined, it's usually pretty easy to translate them into words. -------------------- XXXIII Not hear? When noise was everywhere! it tolled Increasing like a bell. Names in my ears Of all the lost adventurers, my peers - How such a one was strong, and such was bold, And such was fortunate, yet each of old Lost, lost! one moment knelled the woe of years. Posts: 161 | Registered: Monday, October 8 2001 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2238
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written Monday, November 15 2004 13:07
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Images: It's hard for me, despite the fact that I like to think of myself as at least moderately talented at drawing, to translate images in my head onto paper. So usually, I can use words to bring it to life. Words: It's easier for me here, as I can just translate and elaborate. Words->Images never held much purpose in my line of life. -------------------- The critics agree! Demonslayer is "a five star hit!" raves TIMES Weekly! "I've never heard such thoughtful comments. This man is a genious!" says two-time Nobel Prize winning physicist Erwin Rasputin! Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, November 15 2004 13:24
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If I'm trying to picture something that happened or an object, I think in pictures. If I'm talking to myself silently or remembering information, I think in "written" text (images again), although it's not real text and I can think much faster than I can read, obvoiusly. The only time I think in sounds is when I am specifically trying to recall sounds. Even remembered conversations often become transcripts unless I work at recollecting the tones used. No, I am not particularly good at picking up the subtext cues from speech. [Edit: Thinking in text and transmitting thoughts to fingers are entirely different matters, as this failure shows.] —Alorael, who suspects that all of these forms of thinking are just rationalizations of a process that has very little to do with actual senses. Blind people probably think in much the same way as anyone else. It's only their perceptions of thought that are necessarily different. [ Monday, November 15, 2004 18:09: Message edited by: Amuck ] Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 643
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written Monday, November 15 2004 13:43
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quote:I'm guessing you mean you can picture something from your imagination ontop of reality ... for example you see a rocky cliff by the sea and you imagine a castle sitting ontop of it, thinking something like, 'that would be a could place to put a castle' Personally I think in a mix or words, images, sounds and occasionally smells as well as other feelings and sensations as well. All depends what I'm thinking about, if it's something logical like a problem I need to solve in class it would words, text and possibly a diagram. Otherwise if it's more casual thinking it may go into images and sound. I sometimes have long discussions in my mind as well when I am worried, angry or whatever over something. Trying to solve a problem or what not ... of course that just might be me going some what insane for all I know. [ Monday, November 15, 2004 13:47: Message edited by: Mortimer ] -------------------- Fine Meal is people!!! Posts: 289 | Registered: Saturday, February 16 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3804
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written Monday, November 15 2004 14:25
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Originally written by ADOS quote:I have a feeling that is what most of you mean when you speak about thinking in pictures. I thought it would be pretty impossible to see a dog in your mind, as you would see it with your eyes. But if you're not seeing this image with your eyes, how are you seeing it in your mind? Without being able to see a dog in your mind as though it was right infront of you, how else could you know what it looks like without thinking words? I close my eyes and try to visualise a tree. I know what a tree looks like, and with my eyes i physically see no more than black. But my mind knows what it looks like because i'm thinking words that form an image of what i want. An image out of words. Then again maybe this is a just a habit some people develop that they can't break out of. Okay i need a word for this. imagviate - to see an image with your mind, but it is an image. (If there is a word for this i don't know.) I can't see a dog in my mind like i see one in front of me. But when i dream, i can see this dog without the use of words. Is this what it's like to imagviate? I've also heard alot of people refer imaginatoin to dreaming, so maybe it does have some kind of connection. -------------------- "This......is a TREE! What's it for?" -Exile III Posts: 75 | Registered: Saturday, December 20 2003 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Monday, November 15 2004 15:07
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Well, you do see it like you would see with your eyes, but it's like with a separate third eye in your mind. I know, it's still not clear. I can also think in smells sometimes, and tastes. -------------------- The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) Famous Last Words - A local pop-punk band They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4989
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written Monday, November 15 2004 18:50
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I'm not convinced that I think at all. Posts: 29 | Registered: Monday, September 20 2004 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Tuesday, November 16 2004 06:35
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I think and imagine overwhelmingly in words. There's the odd picture in there, but I find myself able to think much more clearly and much faster if I think in terms of language. A good deal of my thoughts have neither language or pictures. Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4904
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written Saturday, November 20 2004 20:08
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Hard to say. Well, I guess mostly I imagine in words combined with something like simple sketch - I see not a fully rendered image, but smth. more like Max 3d view or quake with textures off. Grayscale marking of things positions and dimensions, words to describe them. Though when I'm either exhausted and almost falling asleep or somewhat drunk, I see in my imagination colored 3-d images with lighting effects etc and very clean texturing. (Just comparing to 3d rendering, it's easier for me to speak in that terms). Though with background... not exactly words, but ideas. Posts: 10 | Registered: Thursday, August 26 2004 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 136
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written Sunday, November 21 2004 06:46
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Most time I imagine things, I see them and let my dreamworld add the details. Sometimes it's a full-world image, but it uses to be the image on a white space... something like Neo being introduced to Matrix, if you saw the 1st film. As an example, while reading your "boy bouncing a ball" I was seeing a blond boy about 5, bouncing and kicking a small red ball in the middle of nothing, all the while seeing my computer's screen, but separatedly. Also, when it comes to remember and not just imagine, I use to "feel" with the rest of my senses,and not only sight: warm, golden blinding sun on my face for "leaving office", tartan patterned cloth, rough under my hands for "bedspread", waterdrops refreshing my face and thunderous roar for "waterfall". Etc. Posts: 253 | Registered: Tuesday, October 9 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
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written Sunday, November 21 2004 17:30
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quote:I am still envisioning that 8-year-old running from left to right, his red t-shirt and yellow bermudas waving in the wind... I tend to embellish thoughts, complete pictures so that they are more appealing to me and I can remember them more easily. More in general, I like to make arguments flow. The ideas come in bits and pieces and I can collect them best on a piece of real paper, because the next one comes more easily when I know I do not have to remember the previous one because I have written it down. Then I try to put things into some logical order by staring at my unordered list. At that time, I see witten words and connecting lines and when I have the structure I try to explain things to myself - I actually hear myself talking without moving my lips my arms gesturing on time. Ans when those faces appear in my mind that show understanding, I am almost done and looking for a victim/test person to test my explanation. Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |