Did Jeff know about this while creating Exile/Avernum series?

AuthorTopic: Did Jeff know about this while creating Exile/Avernum series?
Shock Trooper
Member # 751
Profile Homepage #0
"Apol., ii 5. It should moreover be noted that the Hebrew word nephilim rendered gigantes, in 6:4, may mean "fallen ones"."

Nephilim doesn't mean "cat" it means "fallen one". IMAGE(eek00000.gif)

--------------------
Windows XP
P4 1.84gig
768MB RAM
Radeon 9700 Pro
Posts: 202 | Registered: Thursday, March 14 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4214
Profile #1
Errm? They're more like "standing ones". If cats were descendents of the nephils, they should call "fallen ones".

What does "Nephar" mean? IMAGE(smile000.gif)

Edit: Perhaps they call "fallen ones", because they "fell out of the tree", which means they can't climb anymore.
This might sound ridiculous, but do you know a better statement?

[ Tuesday, April 13, 2004 08:49: Message edited by: Mind ]

--------------------
I'm not cursed at birth like my Avernum characters, but my birth is my curse.
-The Great Misfit
Posts: 356 | Registered: Tuesday, April 6 2004 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1506
Profile #2
quote:
Originally written by K.I.L.E.R:

nephilim rendered gigantes
You answered it yourself. It's most commonly translated as "gigantes," which I imagine means what it seems like, while a secondary definition is "fallen ones" as in fallen angels. I imagine Jeff was thinking about big cats rather than demons, but since the name was given by (presumably) the Exiles, he might have meant both.

--------------------
desperance.net -- Come on in, we don't bite. Well, I don't.
Posts: 218 | Registered: Saturday, July 13 2002 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #3
I would guess that Jeff came up with the name "nephilim" thinking it was original. Those subconscious memories can do funny things.

?Alorael, who has found no nepharim anywhere but in Exile/Avernum. If Jeff thought the nephilim were entirely his own, he could easily have altered the word to create a mutant subspecies.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
Profile #4
The Nephilim (or Kitties, as I prefer) were almost certainly named by the Empire, or by themselves.

If named by the Empire, I feel it's quite likely that Jeff intended to use both definitions as a way to convey what was thought of them. If named by themselves?well, then he probably just needed a name. I don't know much about Nephils referring to themselves much in the Exile series, because they don't talk to you much.

--------------------
"Oh, North Wind, why frighten others?
In Nature's family all are brothers.
Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss;
You can't frighten Shingebiss.
Bring your frost and ice and snow;
I'm still free to come and go.
You can never frighten me,
One who never fears is FREE!"
-Shingebiss, the mighty duck
Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2242
Profile #5
The word nephilim was used to designate a wing of Shivan fighters in Freespace. It makes sense now...

--------------------
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster... when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes back into you."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

"There is no dodging the quad laser." -Ignignok
Posts: 469 | Registered: Thursday, November 14 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 3040
Profile #6
I find it hard to believe that Jeff thought he invented Nephilim, unless he speaks Hebrew: As far as I know, the -im suffix to denote plurality is exclusive to that language. (maybe Arabic as well? Aramaic? Does anyone on these boards speak either of those two languages?)

--------------------
who?
Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #7
Yes, but there are some Hebrew words that have made it into English. Seraph, seraphim. Cherub, cherubim. I'm sure there are more, but for some reason I'm stuck on the angelic words. Anyway, Jeff may have just absorbed the -im pluralization and used it without thinking. That's the most likely cause for subliminal word recycling anyway.

?Alorael, who would like to know how Jeff decided to make races end in -ai in both singular and plural. Once is standard fantasy naming weirdness, but twice is a conspiracy!
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #8
Please don't kill me for asking, but what's the second? I can only think of the sliths...

To emphasize Alorael's point about subconscious memory, I once wrote an entire song before realizing that I had just copied it from something I'd heard years ago. So much for originality...

Another example of that would be kibbutz and kibbutzim, Alorael.

I now agree with whoever said that this nephilim thing should be added to the FAQ. And that "faq" looks like "fag", especially when underlined. WTF^^ mate?

--------------------
And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL

In case of emergency, break glass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 16
Profile #9
Vahnatai sweetie.

--------------------
You know, Scorp, there's a good reason you're not a moderator any more.
Posts: 441 | Registered: Thursday, September 27 2001 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3310
Profile #10
And, surprisingly, Slithzerikai as well. IMAGE(eek00000.gif)

EDIT: Yes, sometimes reading through the whole topic can prevent you from saying the same things over and over. And make you look less stupid.

[ Tuesday, April 13, 2004 19:17: Message edited by: Seaweed ]
Posts: 756 | Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #11
oh no i found nephilim in the bible

thats breaking jeffs copyrights

SUE GOD!


--------------------
Rate My Scenarios!
Streila Spies
Unbalanced Accounts
Inn of Blades
Echoes
Echoes: Assault
Echoes: Black Horse
Echoes: Pawns
Bandits
Echoes: Combat/Skirmish
Two Strands
Bandits II: Ballad of the Red Star
Roses of Reckoning (BoE)
Corporeus
The Claim
Roses of Reckoning (BoA)
Nebulous Times Hence
Emerald Mountain
Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 2123
Profile #12
Is the Bible copyrited? =? <--question face thingy

I know, dumb question but I was just wondering. What other things might be copyrighted that we would never think of.

Wow, if I'm asking these I need to hope I'm not as stupid as I sound. But I guess I am, I just can't seem to win.

:::guess is spelt with a g not a q, I am stupid:::

[ Tuesday, April 13, 2004 20:04: Message edited by: Rowen ]

--------------------
With his last breath he took in more power then any Guardian could hold, then with a scream of pain and furry he unleashed it all to form a barrier betwen the Mantia and the Darkness.
Posts: 228 | Registered: Monday, October 21 2002 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #13
The Bible is *not* copyrighted. It would be pretty hard to track down, say, the descendents of the author of John.

But a number of things that you might not realize are copyrighted are. The happy birthday song ("Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear ___, happy birthday to you"), for example. I read a whole list of them that I now can't track down. It was a warning to novel writers who intended to use them in their books because they assumed the songs were just part of the public domain.

On the actual topic of this thread, I think that the name "nephilim" is kind of cool for the kitties. Does it imply that the nephils were once a mightier, better race than they are now? Do they have some glorious past that we don't know about? Hey, maybe the NEPHILS created all the other races, not the vahnatai! And now they have fallen and the humans smack them around. What injustice! What an inglorious end!

There's a great scenario in there somewhere, I swear.

--------------------
Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM v1.1!)

Rate my scenarios!
Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue
High Level Party Maker
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #14
quote:
Originally written by Alorael:

Yes, but there are some Hebrew words that have made it into English. Seraph, seraphim. Cherub, cherubim. I'm sure there are more, but for some reason I'm stuck on the angelic words.
Possibly because "-ael", meaning "of God", is a very common ending for angelic names? Alo, is there something you're not telling us about yourself? IMAGE(tongue00.gif)

--------------------
I believe there are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 105 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe, and the same number of electrons. -- Sir Arthur Eddington
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
One Thousand Slimy Things
Member # 66
Profile #15
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

On the actual topic of this thread, I think that the name "nephilim" is kind of cool for the kitties. Does it imply that the nephils were once a mightier, better race than they are now? Do they have some glorious past that we don't know about? Hey, maybe the NEPHILS created all the other races, not the vahnatai! And now they have fallen and the humans smack them around. What injustice! What an inglorious end!
That means the Nephilim would PWNZOR the sliths. IMAGE(tongue00.gif)

[ Wednesday, April 14, 2004 03:06: Message edited by: ArcticWaffles ]

--------------------
There was no happy ending.
Posts: 995 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
Profile #16
Heck yeah, there's a few good scenarios in there. King David might provide some material, or some of the old-stuff, from like Chronicles and Judges. Lots of stuff in those ones.

Geez, TW, haven't seen you post in…well…ever.

Welcome back?

--------------------
"Oh, North Wind, why frighten others?
In Nature's family all are brothers.
Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss;
You can't frighten Shingebiss.
Bring your frost and ice and snow;
I'm still free to come and go.
You can never frighten me,
One who never fears is FREE!"
-Shingebiss, the mighty duck
Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 4213
Profile #17
quote:
Originally written by ArcticWaffles:

quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

On the actual topic of this thread, I think that the name "nephilim" is kind of cool for the kitties. Does it imply that the nephils were once a mightier, better race than they are now? Do they have some glorious past that we don't know about? Hey, maybe the NEPHILS created all the other races, not the vahnatai! And now they have fallen and the humans smack them around. What injustice! What an inglorious end!
That means the Nephilim would PWNZOR the sliths. IMAGE(tongue00.gif)

IMAGE(badthrea.jpg)

...or more like "Christ, don't let it start!"

[ Wednesday, April 14, 2004 04:10: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

--------------------
It came from the Misc Abyss...

Currently breaking my head:
-In Victoria: An Empire under the Sun
-In BoA Editor
-Because of bad weather
Posts: 23 | Registered: Tuesday, April 6 2004 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4214
Profile #18
Christ, don't make this flood of endless annoying sarcastic pictures start again!

--------------------
I'm not cursed at birth like my Avernum characters, but my birth is my curse.
-The Great Misfit
Posts: 356 | Registered: Tuesday, April 6 2004 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1249
Profile Homepage #19
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

The Bible is *not* copyrighted. It would be pretty hard to track down, say, the descendents of the author of John.
Moreover, copyright is a pretty new concept.
Posts: 259 | Registered: Saturday, June 1 2002 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3608
Profile Homepage #20
Thank you for stealing my idea, XYZ, thanks a bundle.

--------------------
- The Great Mister

kommari@gmail.com[/url]
Posts: 972 | Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #21
Yes, I come on the light of God. My secret it out! Now forget all about it, lest some serious smiting come and all that.

?Alorael, who doesn't think kibbutz is such a good example. It isn't really an English word at all, just a Hebrew word recently adopted because there is no English equivalent. Hm, okay, maybe it is an example.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4267
Profile Homepage #22
Well, nephilim was originally used to refer to half angel creatures "men of great renown" So, it probably carries the connotation of being less than their fathers, and halfbreeds, probably why jeff chose it. [Nephilim were often hated, because they had the power of their non human parent, but the capacity for poor judgement and cruelty of their human one.]

*EX: The famous Philistine Giant was of Nephilic descent*

[ Thursday, April 15, 2004 16:40: Message edited by: Ezzy ]
Posts: 50 | Registered: Thursday, April 15 2004 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #23
Really? I think the term 'nephilim' only appears twice in the Bible, and both times with no real explanation. The "half angel" meaning is, as far as I know, a fabricated interpretation.

?Alorael, who would guess that the original meaning was more along the lines of "huge, strong, really impressive guys." Not in those exact words, of course.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4239
Profile #24
quote:
Originally written by Alorael:

...the original meaning was more along the lines of "huge, strong, really impressive guys." Not in those exact words, of course.
Wow. That sounds just like some kind of Avernum text.

And, according to a text search of Bibleworks 95 and comparisons of three different English versions, nephilim is most comparable to 'giants.'
However, they also seem to be a different race than humankind and were present in the early days (Genesis 6), so they may well be of angelic descent according to other ancient documents.
Assuming you actually believe any of it. IMAGE(smile000.gif)

--------------------
There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were.
Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00