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Originally written by Eluctable:

Thuryl, are you talking about the pools of water in Avit? Because while those fomented understanding of the Olgai tongue in outsiders, they certainly didn't help the Olgai tribe learn other languages.

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Originally written by Najosz Thjsza Kjras:

And incidentally, it's dubious the Vahnatai speak a single language or even share a single specific identity - remember, human monospecifity was largely restricted to philosophy and theology before the early 20th century.

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Originally written by Synergy:

How about this: by virtue of making a statement of what we want, as true creators in the image of the Creator, we are creating the experience of want for ourselves. If we say, "I want this. Please give me this," we are saying that we do not have it, and the universe agrees with us. And that is what we continue to experience...wanting. But when we make a statement of what is not as if it now is..., well, I am, that I am.

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Originally written by Stillness:

I know a few scientists. I actually study the Bible with three and I like all of them. I like you too. Don’t be offended. I was abusing the Ghandi quote(“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”) to make the point about science that he made about Christendom. I thought it was more commonly known than it actually is apparently.

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Originally written by Stillness:

You're assuming I was implying that he wasn't?

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Originally written by Stillness:

It's hard to believe for someone that doesn't have the full picture. And I'm not talking about all the details. I'm talking about a world view lacking the spiritual realm.

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Originally written by Jeran Korak:

It would take me about 25 minutes to make it and about another 2 hours to insert all the details. And quite a large ammount of that time would be because I'd have to wait for my poor internet connection to open things.

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Originally written by Stillness:

Your “interfere” argument is just semantics as far as I can tell.

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Originally written by Jeran Korak:

I've not seen so many since Ed and Public Enemy Number #1 were here. Just who the hell was PE#1 anyway?

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Originally written by The Almighty Do-er of Stuff:

Compensation is still a purpose worth consideration, at any rate.

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Originally written by Synergy:

Woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo burble burble woo.

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Originally written by Stillness:

I think marriage is seen by many as a stabilizing, civilizing, and society-sustaining arrangement.

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Originally written by Stillness:

Not when it relates to a sexual institution such as marriage. And not when reproduction is based on sex. It’s natural categorization.

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Originally written by Stillness:

You’re wrong because you don’t understand the meaning of discrimination

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Why do you say it’s the same kind of discrimination as Jim Crow and then say there are no different kinds?

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Who decides whether or not a case for discrimination is wrong?

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I’m addressing the issue as it is. How do you feel nature invalidates my position, which (just for sake of clarification) is that the government recognizing only 1 man-1 woman marriage is not the same as Jim Crow segregation or sexism?

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Thuryl, what is your religious belief on whether or not banning gay marriage is discrimination in the same sense that Jim Crow laws are? Why is your religious belief leading you to illogical conclusions?

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Recognizing gender differences is not necessarily discrimination. For example: Some states require that strip searches be done by someone of the same sex. This is not discrimination for reasons related to gender.

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I think “varies with each person” is stretching things a bit. You’re talking about abnormalities. I think there is definitely call for some reevaluation of gender evaluation and categorization. But, in most of the “inter-sexed” there is still a definite sex even if at birth this is not easily discernable. Chromosomal or inspection of internal organs would reveal it. For the .018% that can’t be classified I don’t know that any relationship they have could be classified as homo or heterosexual by nature so as to have any real bearing on this discussion. Let’s not confuse these issues.

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You all can’t say it should be allowed because some are sexually attracted to their own gender out one side of your mouth and then say it’s not a sexual issue out the other.

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Originally written by Ninjanaranjato:

And speaking of incompetence, doesn't treating intent and action separately perversely reward failure?

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Originally written by Synergy:

Women have made headway into all sorts of arenas formerly dominated by men. What has changed less is the way the work environment works, and what aspects of human contribution are valued. The intuitive and feeling functions most typically seen and accepted in women are still not seen as particularly viable, acceptable, or useful components of the institutionalized working world.

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Originally written by Stillness:

Maybe we should analyze yours to understand why you've come to an incorrect conclusion.

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I asked a question in response to this argument that has as yet been unanswered and asked that we pursue it. No one seemed to want to, so I was asking Alex for clarification to see if he was raising the same point again.

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I have an answer, but let me ask you this first: You accuse me of arbitrary legalism for going with the sex on the birth certificate, so how would you know if the government is discriminating without looking at the sex on birth certificate? Or try this one: If sex were not on the birth certificate, would there be another way of telling the difference between a male and a female?

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Originally written by Stillness:

What you have to do to prove me wrong is show the logic of your position, not talk about my religious beliefs. Your inability to see that after I have repeatedly stated and restated what I’m saying speaks to your lack of reason. And now I see Salmon is doing the same thing in the post immediately after yours. Unfortunate.

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How are you saying it’s gender discrimination?

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Originally written by Safey:

The only thing that can save the world is if society brings its focus to saving world instead of blissfully hoping someone else will.

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Originally written by Synergy:

It's what the western world has given men to do for their gender role, and we've learned it quite well-be stuck in the head and cut off from other more vital parts of being human.

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How's it working for us? Not so well. Science, technology, and technocracy does not have the answers for the challenges we have been failing to overcome for millennia now...ourselves, our attitudes, our separtism, our killing of one another. We're just able to do all these things much more efficiently now. The god of science, like the god of religion, is going to be shown how bankrupt and inept, and incomplete it really is in context of what we are actually trying to be.

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Originally written by Synergy:

Scientist sorts can become very tedious to imaginative people, because they may demonstrate a complete lack of imagination.

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