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The Crystal Soul theft in The Avernum Trilogy
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #5
I'm pretty sure it's said that they were discovered when the Empire was scouting out where to deploy troops and where to build the teleporter, all of which happened after Hawthorne's assassination.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #79
Micah became king because he united the people in the caves and he created the Kingdom of Avernum. He was allowed to keep his kingdom because he stayed out of everyone's business and kept the monsters away and helped Avernum stay running smoothly.

If he tried to overstep his boundaries, I think he'd quickly be reeled back in. The people of Avernum were very wary of falling under a new Emperor in a new Empire.

The mayors ARE NOT an aristocracy. They are administrators who run the city, not people who sit back and rake in money. People look to them for guidance, but only because they control the city's militia and spending. I don't think the people would waste a second in pulling down a mayor either.

The people of Avernum are not inclined to support a hereditary monarchical system - they recognize that that was what caused the Empire to degenerate into what it was.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #71
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

While I would like to believe Avernum would rise up against an incompetent ruler, I am fairly certain this doesn't happen in feudal systems, ever. The people are generally kept ignorant of their monarch, and they do what their local lords, in this case the mayors, tell them to do. Throughout human history, the only time that feudal monarchs are ever overthrown is when they anger the nobles. And nobles, my friend, can be bought! It don't think it would be difficult at all to put a puppet king on the throne of Avernum. It would take the proper propaganda for the troops, however. "Hail Chevyn, the rightful king!" Hey, that warcry almost rhymes!
Avernum is not a feudal system. There are no nobles. There are no serfs. Mayors are not nobles - the people choose their mayors. And the mayors of the six largest cities sit on the Council of Avernum. I'd like to think that almost all of the people in Exile are limited-government supporters. As long as the government keeps people safe and doesn't bother them, they don't really care who's in charge.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #60
Nobody wants Chevyn to rule. Even Micah admits that he's unfit. Having him be King would be absolutely disastrous for Avernum, which is why the Council took over while Houghton was grooming Starrus.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Relative ages? in The Avernum Trilogy
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #27
Well, parts of that are obvious exaggerations - the glowing moss is Vahnatai, Erika did cavewood trees, etc.

But I agree - she has been down for a long time.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Musing on Avernum in General
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #10
Of Good And Evil has you choose sides too, Redemption has several endings, so does Quintessence, and Falling Stars has an intricate reputation system. There are plenty more.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Musing on Avernum in General
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #8
Avernum had reputation, not Exile. And BoA can have something like Leadership really easily if someone wants it in their scenario. I believe a lot of people were talking about a "Charisma" skill.

EDIT: Alorael snuck in there. And GF doesn't track reputations separately - default is 100, shapers are above, and rebels are below.

[ Tuesday, September 12, 2006 17:19: Message edited by: Drakefyre ]

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #56
The way we've reconciled Chevyn with A4 is by saying that Micah served until 836, when Chevyn was supposed to be king but instead the Council of Avernum stepped in and ran things. When Starrus, Micah's next son, reached 13, he was appointed King by Houghton and Crown supporters, with Houghton acting like regent (like Garzahd for Prazac, but not evil) and disbanding the Council. And that's where we stand at the start of A4.

And I'm not really sure how democractic it would be, but it's the point of group rule vs. a single monarch. Despite the fact that Micah was an extremely good king and Avernum would certainly be worse off if he hadn't been king.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #53
I don't like Dorikas, I like the Darkside Loyalists.

Rentar doesn't need to be a main villain because *we already beat her*. Now she's just a deranged psycho with no real support, and her role in the story should reflect that. If she even appears at all.

As for an Avernum civil war, I don't think it should be between Houghton and Starrus supporters - nobody really supports Houghton (who is not related to Starrus or Micah at all). It would be between supporters of the Council of Avernum (which Houghton made Starrus disband) and supporters of Starrus. Basically democracy vs. monarchy.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Musing on Avernum in Avernum 4
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #5
I agree with you about Avernum 3, Zorro, but Exile III for me was completely different. I replayed Exile III the most of any spidweb game. It was absolutely amazing and so easy to play, the gameplay was great, and surface gave me the freedom to do whatever I wanted and a huge world to explore.

So far, Geneforge 4 is looking good.

For me, the biggest part of whether or not I like a game is how much fun it is. How do I measure fun? How long I can play straight without getting bored. How many times I can play the game without getting bored. Whether I want to know what happens next in the story. Exile III gave me the first two long after the third expired. BoE gives me all three.

*moves to General*

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Musing on Avernum in General
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #5
I agree with you about Avernum 3, Zorro, but Exile III for me was completely different. I replayed Exile III the most of any spidweb game. It was absolutely amazing and so easy to play, the gameplay was great, and surface gave me the freedom to do whatever I wanted and a huge world to explore.

So far, Geneforge 4 is looking good.

For me, the biggest part of whether or not I like a game is how much fun it is. How do I measure fun? How long I can play straight without getting bored. How many times I can play the game without getting bored. Whether I want to know what happens next in the story. Exile III gave me the first two long after the third expired. BoE gives me all three.

*moves to General*

EDIT: I think that a lot of Exile III's appeal is just how simple and clean it is to play. It has great interface design, simple dialogue, and a long list of fun and somewhat useful spells.

[ Tuesday, September 12, 2006 15:43: Message edited by: Drakefyre ]

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
The Crystal Soul theft in The Avernum Trilogy
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #2
The Empire discovered the Vahnatai and made a pact with Gaddika, who agreed to help them steal some crystal souls so the Empire could learn about crystal magic and Vahnatai secrets.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Relative ages? in The Avernum Trilogy
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #25
Exile III has Linda in the Five. Avernum 1 has Linda fighting Grah-Hoth.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Relative ages? in The Avernum Trilogy
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #23
Prazac was in her early teens during Exile II - I want to say 12. Micah was around 65 at the time of Exile II (and presumably had Rone's help in staying alive). Patrick was very old but around in 823, and he died a few years later. Linda was Exiled with the Five, and she helped take down the sliths and Grah-Hoth in 779.

Okay, Linda was part of the Five. So was Aimee. That makes them Six. Which was why we removed Aimee because she wasn't involved in the founding of Avernum. So back to what it was before!

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #42
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Why, in A4, is she attacking Avernum? The Empire stole the crystal souls. Apparently her desire is to kill all humans for the errors of just a few. This makes her, again, a simple cartoon villain.
I thought this was fairly obvious - Avernite adventurers foiled her plot for revenge on the Empire. Now she's getting revenge on them for stopping her initial revenge.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Black shades in Avernum 4
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #5
I'm pretty sure you can sneak past the one in Almaria - stick to the north and go down into the sewers.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #38
I would have preferred to see more interaction with all sorts of Vahnatai, not just the evil Vahnatai but more of the friendly Vahnatai too.

I also would have preferred fewer chitrachs in the Eastern Gallery and more of the "traditional" monsters of Avernum - nephilim and sliths.

I think that it would be worthwhile for Tullegolar to play some of the best scenarios (CSR 9+?) and see more of what people are talking about, but he also has very good points and is the first person I've seen to come on the boards and argue these points successfully. Props to you.

I love this thread.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Redwall Released! in Blades of Exile
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #18
Not that kind of cheesecake, silly.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Relative ages? in The Avernum Trilogy
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #20
And as Avernum 2 "shows", made a pact with demons.

EDIT: I prefer Exile II, where the generally accepted strategy was just to mindduel him out of SP.

[ Monday, September 11, 2006 17:43: Message edited by: Drakefyre ]

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Teleporter......Exile: 2 in The Exile Trilogy
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #2
For Pyrog's Lair you need to go NW from Fort Dranlon to Giant Lands.

Look here: http://www.silverchat.com/~silver/Avernum/mainmap1.html

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Relative ages? in The Avernum Trilogy
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #18
But by Exile III, Sulfras is clearly the most powerful dragon. I'd rank them (from strongest to weakest): Sulfras, Athron, Pyrog, Khoth, Motrax.

As for the "lesser" mages, I'd go: Rone, Linda, Solberg, X, Patrick, Aimee.

For stronger mages I'd agree with you - Erika, Rentar, Garzahd.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #26
Rentar's comeback was lame! Water monsters instead of barriers from Avernum 2, and shades instead of plagues. If she's going to come back, she should bring fire and brimstone and massive destruction! It would have been better leaving that hanging (she did say she would plot for generations) and going with darkside loyalists.

And I think something really interesting could have been done between Houghton and Starrus and that potential power struggle there. Maybe civil discord would give the Darkside Loyalists the confusion they needed to strike.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Developer Question for Spiderweb in General
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #4
Well, BoE doesn't use scripting, and BoA gets very little scripting support beyond what was in v1.0 (some things like string buffers were notable exceptions). But a lot of that has to do with Spidweb being a three-person operation, and the need to constantly be making new games in order to make money.

Fortunately (at least I'd say fortunately), the Blades community is generally very helpful and has script libraries, etc.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Newbie questions: in Geneforge Series
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #28
Geneforge 1, more than its successors, hits the level cap quickly. After you gain the first 15 levels or so very quickly, it takes ages to gain the next 15.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
How would you do it? in Avernum 4
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #22
I loved Trajkov and Goettsch from GF1 - both tried to use the party for their own ends and gain control of the island. They may not have literally moved, but they tried to woo you and trick you and then kill you.

Geneforge 2 had the birth of drakons and then the eventual dark descent into GF3 and rebellion, which is in full force in GF4.

Avernum goes a different route - there is a clear hero and a clear enemy. Avernum needs a savior, and here you are. You have a motive to kill Hawthorne. You need to free and then banish Grah-Hoth. All while exploring this new setting. Great!

Avernum 2 is a great successor. There's the appropriate response to Hawthorne's assassination - war! And this theft of the crystal souls is brilliant! In come the Vahnatai - more exploration of foreign lands and you can bring peace to the caves.

Avernum 3 sees the triumphant return to the surface. A lot of people don't like the A3 plot for some reason, but I love it! The whole new surface world, people are suspicious of your pale skin, and the ultimate goal to bring your people back to the surface.

But Avernum 4 doesn't really do it for me with Rentar. I would have loved to see it go purely down the Darkside Loyalist road. There is a secret group of people in Avernum who want to take it down and you, as a member of Unspecified Services, need to find these people, discover their plots, foil them, and then destroy them. That would have been an awesome game!

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00

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