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Originally written by Drew:

1.) As a person, I think that Bush can pray however he likes. In his official capacity as POTUS, I think he ought to lay off. Christian prayers don't represent everyone's faith, and the U.S. government is a secular institution - let's keep it that way.

2.) No one is preventing anyone from practicing their faith. The matter is whether a particular religious practice has a place in a secular institution designed to incorporate people of all faiths.

3.) Separation of Church and State is infered from the U.S. Constitution, not a part of it. It was discussed at further length in the Federalist Papers, which, though venerated, aren't laws. Before Ben and Ash get their panties in a bunch, though, it must be pointed out that this inference has been affirmed by Supreme Court decisions over the years, including the most recent Ten Commandments monument issue.

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Originally written by Spring:

What Ash said in his first post.

I am not a supporter of Bush, or anyone he has convinced to go to war with. Sure, the capture of Saddam Hussein was good, but there is still no need to still be in Iraq. Let them make their own country and stop playing God, Bush.

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Originally written by Zaiu:

I see no logic in saying "I am offended that the president didn't pray." when there is supposed to be a separation of church and state. If the president kept all religious references out of his speeches he would only be fallowing the constitution :P

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Originally written by Zaiu:

Bush has prayed to God/Jesus (while standing with government seals and American flags) on national television before making speeches; how does this support the Americans who are members of other faiths or are atheist?

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Originally written by Marlenny:

Damn Ash, that was pretty harsh. My parents used to scare me all the time, but it had more to do with sending me to live with my aunt than to skin me alive.

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Originally written by Slp006:

Myst really creeped me out when I was six. Seeing Achenar's room full of torture implements in the Mechanical Age scarred me forever.

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Originally written by Zorro:

Abortion is a medical procedure. Do you really think it is the government's job to determine whether or not you are allowed a medical procedure, rather than you and your doctor? Do not come back saying "but its murder" because if you really believed there was a holocaust of about 1 million babies being killed every year, you wouldn't just sit around and vote Republican, and post a message on the boards. I think anti-abortionists who bomb clinics are criminals, but they're the only ones who behave as if they believed what they say.

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Originally written by Stugri-La:

Well, sure, I never attempted to argue that the Beatles or any other band I enjoy was entirely non-commercial. There's absolutely nothing wrong with artists attempting to make commercial, accessible music. The trouble comes when an artist becomes so slavishly devoted to pleasing the masses and increasing his bottom line that he refuses to allow for the slightest bit of spontaneity or experimentation in his music. The Beatles might have necessarily started out with a calculated formula, but what counts is that their focus was always on advancement, on (admittedly, carefully regulated) experimentation. Hell, do you ever see any of these modern hit machines include 9-minute orgies of seemingly random noisemaking on their albums? Didn't think so.

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You're quite right that loads of horrible music was produced in the sixties and seventies. However, you can't deny that both decades were chock full of enduring classics as well. I just can't seem to hunt up anything approaching that caliber from the last twenty-five years. And believe me, I've been looking.

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Ash, I understand the realities of the music business, and I'm really not as much of an artistic snob as you seem to believe. If I truly enjoyed Britney's music (as you seem to), I wouldn't give a damn about who wrote it and what-not. But the fact is, I can't stand the stuff. The melodies are fine, yes, but everything about the performances and production is over-calculated and over-professionalized. It's so slick and devoid of sincerity that it makes me downright nauseous.

You're right, modern pop music is more than just Britney and the boy band brigade. But I don't really find much to like in the "indie" or "alternative" genres, either. Most of these acts are derivative, even imitative, to a degree that they're absolutely superfluous to anyone with broad exposure to sixties and seventies pop/rock.

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As for Trevor Horn, I am familiar with the name. He was a member of that lightweight pop duo the Buggles, wasn't he? Later, he joined the washed-out prog-rock group Yes and recorded an offensively lousy album or two with them. He's slavishly corporate and thoroughly uninteresting as far as I'm concerned.

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I think some genres and styles just go away. Some resurface at intervals in different forms (ska, swing, others), and some just die (disco, acid rock). If your favorite genre is one that died, that era is going to sound better than any other.

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Originally written by demonslaeyr:

And here's some Christian bashing: most people in America are Christian. That doesn't stop them from committing horrible acts of the heart-breaking type. I speak from experience when I say, don't rely on that.

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Originally written by Stugri-La:

Of course there's nothing at all wrong with pop. That modern pop is lousy more often than not is merely a reflection of the massively corporate modern music industry. The tunes may be good, but they're over-calculated and devoid of sincerity. There's very little room left for artistic integrity when the music is so utterly commercialized. Production is ultra-slick, backing bands are soulless and professionalized, and style and image trump over actual talent.

Not that I feel that modern rock or any of the "alternative" genres are any better. And I've always despised hip-hop and its ilk.

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Originally written by Schrodinger:

...in addition to getting married and buying a house :) .

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